Should Foundation Tier at GCSE exist?

Poll

Should Foundation Tier exist?

I personally am doing higher for everything but what do you guys think of Foundation tier?

Is it setting up students to fail (or at best a C)? Does it demotivate students, not letting them aim high enough?

Or is it helping students learn the material they are able to? I mean is there any point in teaching some A grade material if the student can only possibly achieve a D/C?

Also is it easier to achieve a C at foundation or higher?

What are your opinions?

Reply 1

blackrose1234567

19

I think it only exists for schools to let their 'less brainy' students pass at least 5 GCSEs so that the schools record looks impressive. It's quite frustrating for students that are late developers, I mean I know some that could've done higher but got stuck with foundation.

Reply 2

LukeyJB

16

I don't think there should be tiers, all students should get taught the same content and therefore they have the chance to achieve grades they are capable of instead of being restricted. My high school was an utter failure, I was forced to sit the foundation level paper for English and I was not allowed to do literature nor were I allowed to sit the higher paper when I asked, even though I could have quite easily achieved an A... yet, they placed some of the worst behaved students in the whole year group on the higher tier to "boost their self esteem" and "help them achieve better"... yeah, right - like they gave a ****. Tiers should only exist for those who have genuine learning disabilities, it should not be made easier for badly behaved kids to get C grades by them learning lesser content.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 3

felamaslen

15

It shouldn't exist, no (why no poll?). Reasons being that if you can get a C at foundation, you should be able to get a C at higher if it were designed properly. If the result shown on your application or CV is the same regardless of which exam you took, then those exams, grade for grade, should be of equal difficulty if the grades serve their actual purpose; a portrayal of your actual ability.

Reply 4

contradicta

OP

16

Interesting comments so far guys, I'm also on the opinion that it should exist for reasons mentioned above.

I have added a poll now :smile:

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 5

#afital

2

I personally don't think tiers should exist at all. From a young age it sets students to have low expectations of themselves.
It is essencial that all students should have similar opportunities therefore should be able to sit the same exam and be graded fairly.

Reply 6

PhysicsKid

No I don't think it should. Most other people I know aren't challenged enough by Higher Tier let alone Foundation, and the bright kids are really not developed at all. Foundation basically covers a subject to primary school level- a C grade is a Level 5/6 in most subjects so it really shouldn't be an exam at the end of secondary school imo. I would favour a 3 tier system like the old Maths GCSE with a Core Tier (same as current higher tier), Extended Tier (same as current AS Level) and Advanced Tier (same as current A2/full A Level) with current Foundation made an Entry Level qualification. Although some people have special needs which means they need an easier exam, many people getting Ds/Es are due to lack of concentration/revision/effort and apathy which must be targetted. Plus with the current Foundation Tier, teachers don't need to teach properly for a pupil to get a C- you can buy subject textbooks that if memorised sufficiently will get you that grade. We really ought to be pushing and motivating both pupils and teachers to strive for the best they are capable of- and go one beyond that. There shouldn't be a limit to skills and knowledge, so if people even find being stretched further and further isn't challenging them, they should be pushed further and not capped like they are at an A* at GCSE or A Level or whatever. My idea would go some way to addressing that, and with the right mindset, we could increase achievement beyond that even.

Reply 7

monkyvirus

13

I don't see what would be so hard about having a paper that starts with lower level question and builds up to more difficult ones. So if you're an a* student you should be capable of answering everything but a C grade student will find the latter half of the paper difficult. This means children who are aiming for a specific grade won't panic if they can't answer the later questions but if they want to give them a try/ are capable of doing them they have that option.

Reply 8

julia.

Of course not. Teachers and students both do the bare minimum in order to achieve a C grade. With a foundation tier it means some students are capped at achieving their potential. Would mean however that some of the not so clever people will leave education without even a C grade, but oh well

Reply 9

Apocrypha

15

The only part i disagree with is that some students might not be getting the best grade they can achieve at only a C.

Reply 10

Bloxorus

16

I don't think tiers should exist because they limit the potential achievement of those who sit the foundation paper. They could have a lucky day, or even just work hard and get a B rather than being limited to a C.

Reply 11

moutonfou

14

The problem is not that there are two papers, foundation and higher, the problem is the government's fixation with C grades. If D, E, F, and G are still passes, Why is 'C' special? It makes no sense and as other posters have pointed out it means that as long as a student gets a C the school is happy no matter if they may have had higher potential.

We either need a system where the whole spectrum A*-G is a pass and there is ONE paper you sit to get your grade, and every grade counts towards the league tables, not just A*-c, or:

A system where a GCSE is graded A*-C and there is a whole separate qualification for D-G grade students (as in the old days with the O-Level for higher ability students and the CSE for lower ability students).

Reply 12

peaaceandl0ve

17

I don't like the tiers system. Lots of my friends had to sit the Foundation listening and reading language exams in June (all those who got under an A, I think, in the mocks had to), and were very annoyed. Many of them achieved close to full UMS, and therefore sat Higher tier in May to increase their average. This was frustrating them a the tier entered for them was based on their mocks, which nobody really revised for, rather than their performance in their speaking and writing controlled assessments, which most of them had achieved A*-Bs in, and the re-sits were also in Summer which increased the amount of exams in that period. They found that the Foundation papers had greatly limited them, and were unable to achieve their potential.

Reply 13

username878045

17

Original post by moutonfou

The problem is not that there are two papers, foundation and higher, the problem is the government's fixation with C grades. If D, E, F, and G are still passes, Why is 'C' special? It makes no sense and as other posters have pointed out it means that as long as a student gets a C the school is happy no matter if they may have had higher potential.

We either need a system where the whole spectrum A*-G is a pass and there is ONE paper you sit to get your grade, and every grade counts towards the league tables, not just A*-c, or:

A system where a GCSE is graded A*-C and there is a whole separate qualification for D-G grade students (as in the old days with the O-Level for higher ability students and the CSE for lower ability students).

What's the point in having an exam/qualification that will be effectively meaningless. Even if you aced the CSE-style paper, it would be considered equivalent to a D, and hence considered worthless by many employers. If we are going to have exams at 16 (which is increasingly pointless as the school leaving age is increased), then you should have one, so that all people can be compared accurately against each other (vocational qualifications are a different story).

Reply 14

evening sunrise

11

Original post by moutonfou

The problem is not that there are two papers, foundation and higher, the problem is the government's fixation with C grades. If D, E, F, and G are still passes, Why is 'C' special? It makes no sense and as other posters have pointed out it means that as long as a student gets a C the school is happy no matter if they may have had higher potential.

We either need a system where the whole spectrum A*-G is a pass and there is ONE paper you sit to get your grade, and every grade counts towards the league tables, not just A*-c, or:

A system where a GCSE is graded A*-C and there is a whole separate qualification for D-G grade students (as in the old days with the O-Level for higher ability students and the CSE for lower ability students).

When GCE was introduced a grade C was deemed to be equal to a pass in the original Ordinary level. This grade C has then been carried forward into 16+ and then GCSE. When my dad did his O level he had to cover calculus, he taught me even though calculus had been dropped from the GCE O level when I sat them. Grades D and E were deemed as passing the GCE exam but not equivalent to a pass at the original O level, again this was carried forward into 16+ and then GCSE. The system has not changed as GCSE = CSE with a cap of a grade C (equivalent) and GCSE higher = GCE O level with grades B and A being possible. I sat O level, but a few of us sat the CSE paper for fun, there was no comparison in terms of content.

There was a 16+ exam for a while. For that one received a CSE certificate and if it was a grade 1 you also received a GCE O level certificate with a grade C, B or A on it as well. One exam and two certificates from different boards....weird.

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Reply 15

Milostar

17

There should absolutely not be a foundation tier. All it does is limit people, and (anecdotally) many teachers teaching foundation level discourage students who use some of the supposedly higher level skills that they are thought to be incapable of.

One example that particularly sticks out for me - a girl I know who did her GCSEs last year was put on foundation tier English lit due to being a non-native English speaker. From the first day I met her I could tell she was really bright, yet her teacher constantly marked her down for things like having 'too many ideas'. Got straight As in every other subject, C for English lit due to the grade cap.

Reply 16

simplylldxo

14

Yes! Not everybody is intellectually capable of higher; although i would assess the individual to make sure they are at that level rather than just assuming!

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Reply 17

Aidn

6

Original post by Nick Latham

I am yes/no... -_-

It is essentially there to accustom to the less motivated students, I tend to see that intelligence is pretty much the same across the year group, but motivation is the key thing... They need to be taught the value of doing higher over foundation, and it should be removed entirely eventually..

I agree with the point you make about motivation being the problem.
Foundation courses shouldn't exist because they're discouraging students to work their hardest. As they create the barrier as the C grade being the highest grade, these students will not care as much and will put less work in.

As an A-Level student now, I could see the segregation the tiers caused. In fact, I believe they demotivate the students as they feel like if their students don't have the faith in them, then they might as well just give up. However, I have mentored GCSE students in both year 10 and year 11 for the whole of this year and I can see that the problem is motivation and a lack of focus.

Now that they're motivated and they've been put on the right track. They have been able to achieve much better academically but
if you put students in the same tier, you're not only going to help them to work hard but you're going to give everyone equal opportunity to achieve. You're not putting down certain students as you deem them 'unsuitable' to achieve a certain grade. Speaking about myself, a C grade student in year 10 can go onto getting A* grades in year 11, nothing is written in stone like the way foundations make them out to be.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 18

us3481jd

5

One Tier ie one exam, would only help the pupils put in Foundation Tier who should have been put higher. If there are tiers pupils put in the lower tier(s) be able to A*-G passing marks A*-C for the material that they covered wether they wouldn't taught the amount of material.

Reply 19

cleveradam

9

English Literature Foundation Course - Full marks - Year 10
English Literature Higher Course - 192/200 UMS - Year 11
All because of my stupid English department who thought getting a grade C would look good for them.
Luckily I had a good new teacher in year 11 who forced them to set me in for higher. Got the highest in the school. Bloody foundation papers are terrible.

Should Foundation Tier at GCSE exist?

Should Foundation Tier exist?

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