HMRC Tax Professional Programme 2013-2014

It does apply to HO too.

The tax professional training for both EO and HO is comprehensive. The only difference is complexity. HO delves into further complexity and the HO will get more complex cases. However for the first year or so you would probably have trouble distinguishing your job and performance from that of an EO trainee since initially, it is all just training and learning.

All tax professional training is formal. There are formal lessons / tutorials and exams. You must pass the exams in order to progress.

In terms of numbers it varies from location to location. You could start with ten people in a big location or in a smaller one, you could be the only new person. However nearly all learning is in tutorial group batches. And so even in the unlikely event that you start in a small location on your own, you can almost guarantee that your learning will be with a group of others. Sometimes you might travel to another location for your tutorials.

EO /HO training generally lasts around 18 months. After that you will start to get your own work. You will actually work on cases during the 18 months but more under supervision of others.

EO /HO tax professional posts will generally be to one tax specialism - so corporation tax, income tax or VAT for example. Whereas TPDP are given a four year grounding across all tax heads before they choose to specialise in a given area which could be technical tax or management. There is nothing to stop you doing that by entering in an EO or HO role. You could be a technical tax professional for five years for example and then move into people management by managing a team. The difference is speed of promotion. You will work up the ladder more slowly for sure. TPDP trainees start at HO / training band. If they complete the four years successfully they will come out at Grade 7 (the grades are AA, AO, EO, HO, SEO, Grade 7, Grade 6, then SCS the Senior Civil Service). However for a non TPDP person to make it to Grade 7 in four years would be almost unheard of. Of course there is nothing stopping existing HMRC staff from applying for TPDP.

It does apply to HO too.

The tax professional training for both EO and HO is comprehensive. The only difference is complexity. HO delves into further complexity and the HO will get more complex cases. However for the first year or so you would probably have trouble distinguishing your job and performance from that of an EO trainee since initially, it is all just training and learning.

All tax professional training is formal. There are formal lessons / tutorials and exams. You must pass the exams in order to progress.

In terms of numbers it varies from location to location. You could start with ten people in a big location or in a smaller one, you could be the only new person. However nearly all learning is in tutorial group batches. And so even in the unlikely event that you start in a small location on your own, you can almost guarantee that your learning will be with a group of others. Sometimes you might travel to another location for your tutorials.

EO /HO training generally lasts around 18 months. After that you will start to get your own work. You will actually work on cases during the 18 months but more under supervision of others.

EO /HO tax professional posts will generally be to one tax specialism - so corporation tax, income tax or VAT for example. Whereas TPDP are given a four year grounding across all tax heads before they choose to specialise in a given area which could be technical tax or management. There is nothing to stop you doing that by entering in an EO or HO role. You could be a technical tax professional for five years for example and then move into people management by managing a team. The difference is speed of promotion. You will work up the ladder more slowly for sure. TPDP trainees start at HO / training band. If they complete the four years successfully they will come out at Grade 7 (the grades are AA, AO, EO, HO, SEO, Grade 7, Grade 6, then SCS the Senior Civil Service). However for a non TPDP person to make it to Grade 7 in four years would be almost unheard of. Of course there is nothing stopping existing HMRC staff from applying for TPDP.

Has anyone received a formal offer to start eo, have had the conditional one but nothing else since start of August.

Thank you for this reply, it is extremely useful information to me and will probably encourage me to reapply for the TPDP this year.
Why is it so unheard of to jump two pay bands in four years? How long would it take normally? Can you apply for Grade 7 roles and SEO roles as a HO or would you lack the expertise and training to undertake the role?
It is quite interesting to me, in that it sounds quite difficult to progress and gain promotion once you are in as EO/HO whereas there is the almost fast track role of TPDP straight to grade 7. Perhaps because of there being so many people going in at grade 7 discourages grade 7 posts becoming available for others?

Hi,
First of all, thank you for this reply, I found that it answered most of my questions. However, I do have a few other questions, if you don't mind answering.

Firstly, how long (approximately) would it take an EO to reach grade 7, if their performance is excellent. I realise the question will depend on many factors, however from your experience, what would be your opinion regarding this?

Secondly, does an EO have a say as to whether he/she would like to specialise in Corporation Tax/VAT etc?

Finally, how long would it approximately take an EO to get promoted to HO level?

Hi everyone,

has anybody managed to find some examples of the tests on the Kenexa website? When I opened the link I couldnt find anything :/
Also, if somebody from previous years is here, may I ask you what type of verbal reasoning test you had, please? It could be reading some passage and answering question, or finding antonyms and synonyms and so on..

Thanks a lot!

I haven't tested the link since doing the example tests last year. I remember it going up & down a bit. Maybe it's the same this year?
As for the verbal reasoning, it's just reading a passage & answering multiple choice questions based purely upon what the text says. If you haven't done these before it's very important & worthwhile to practice!

Good luck!

Jobs are advertised in stages. Some stages will be level transfer only. Some will allow applicants from any band. So in theory, if you were a HO and had the experience and could demonstrate the competencies for a move to G7 then there is nothing stopping you from applying. If you have come in to the civil service at the right level, it is more likely that you will not grade hop unless you have considerable experience in a given area and this particular experience was a key requirement of the new job.
It's not really that it is difficult to progress. But you are right that not too many Grade 7 posts are floating around at any one time. I find that colleagues who progressed more quickly outside of TPDP tended to do so in operational roles. The issue with tax professionals is that it takes a long time to bed into your role. It will take 18 months to complete formal learning, longer to bed into the job practically speaking. So really it could be four years before you really prove yourself as a tax professional. However you are learning a very transferable skill and you will get a lot of autonomy for your work. Personally I think that there should be a salary premium for tax professional roles similar to what government analysts and economists receive. The ability to move out of EO quickly is about ability but mostly about opportunity. Recruitment was stalled for a long time when the Inland Revenue merged with Customs. At the moment there are a lot of jobs - not because HMRC is expanding but because it is restructuring. So it is a good time to have hope that you might move between EO to HO quicker (or HO to SEO).

The TPDP is not the be all and end all either. There are other development schemes in house to help shift people to the next grade.


This varies from person to person. But if you wanted me to say ball park where ability and opportunity is promising then I would say don't expect to get from EO to G7 in less than eight years.
When you arrive, you are placed. It is unlikely you will get a say in what tax area you are put in. However if you did not enjoy it for any reason, there is always the option later to move around and retrain. A large proportion of my colleagues have experience in more than one area of tax.

EO to HO. Difficult to say. I know some who did it within three years. But this was due to a lot of jobs opening up and the timing being right. For the average person I would say longer. I know some officers who waited ten years but I don't think this would be the case for someone a) with drive and b) willing to be geographically mobile.

Once again, I can't thank you enough for your reply. What's your opinion on training for ACCA/CIMA/ACA/ATT whilst doing the EO role? Is that a sensible approach or will be too much work for a trainee?

Also, i've read somewhere on the forum that we can't apply for other officer roles for the first two years (e.g. cant apply for TPDP), if we accept a role as EO? Is there any truth to this?

Anytime.

I'd wait a while until you get through the first months of training. The thing with the formal accreditation is this.... you don't really need it for forging a career with HMRC as they will provide all the training you need. There was even an Msc in Fiscal Policy available to applicants in certain grades last year. However if you want to hop over to the private sector then it is something you could consider. Just don't tell your public sector colleagues your plans as it doesn't go down too well ;-)

As to your other question - most EO contracts restrict moving to another officer (as in EO grade) post within the first two years. This does not impact promotion. As I said before, you will have to check the small print of your own contract on that one. I know people who applied for TPDP, just missed out, got offered an EO post and then immediately reapplied for TPDP and got in.

Basically, I have got exemptions for all the fundamental papers for ACCA due to my degree. So, I would probably want to complete the remaining exams, as it won't hurt to gain that extra qualification. Keeps options open I guess.

I will definitely give the contract a once over to check for any such restrictions, but hopefully, if there's nothing there to stop me from re-applying to TPDP, I will definitely be re-applying. Thanks again for the advice, much appreciated.

I am due to start work in Nottingham next Monday but all the information they have given me is a time and place to be there and who to ask for. On the email it said I would recieve terms before I started, however I haven't.

I am moving from Cardiff to Notts for the role, or at least attempting to, but the agency I am going through want proof of how much I will earn. How can I provide this when I haven't started etc and HMRC can't provide me with proof of what I will be earning?? Has anyone done anything like this before and have any advice?

Nightmare, 4 more days and I still live in Wales!!

I am due to start work in Nottingham next Monday but all the information they have given me is a time and place to be there and who to ask for. On the email it said I would recieve terms before I started, however I haven't.

I am moving from Cardiff to Notts for the role, or at least attempting to, but the agency I am going through want proof of how much I will earn. How can I provide this when I haven't started etc and HMRC can't provide me with proof of what I will be earning?? Has anyone done anything like this before and have any advice?

Nightmare, 4 more days and I still live in Wales!!

I am due to start work in Nottingham next Monday but all the information they have given me is a time and place to be there and who to ask for. On the email it said I would recieve terms before I started, however I haven't.

I am moving from Cardiff to Notts for the role, or at least attempting to, but the agency I am going through want proof of how much I will earn. How can I provide this when I haven't started etc and HMRC can't provide me with proof of what I will be earning?? Has anyone done anything like this before and have any advice?

Nightmare, 4 more days and I still live in Wales!!

Anybody received their DBS certificate yet?

Hi!

The agency I went with in Edinburgh accepted the email I received back in may advertising the post, since it had the expected salary at the bottom, together with the conditional offer email. You might want to try that.

Also, did you get the unconditional offer and contract? As I was supposed to start on the 8th as well, but last week they announced me it's not gonna happen until 26 Jan.

Hi!

The agency I went with in Edinburgh accepted the email I received back in may advertising the post, since it had the expected salary at the bottom, together with the conditional offer email. You might want to try that.

Also, did you get the unconditional offer and contract? As I was supposed to start on the 8th as well, but last week they announced me it's not gonna happen until 26 Jan.