Can we talk about the 40% PGCE drop out rate? Anyone here dropped out?

More than happy to contribute to a discussion on it.
~43/44% of pupils don't obtain a C grade or higher in GCSE maths nationally.
I firmly believe that a maths degree isn't the prerequisite for finding people to change this.
Basic maths, the correct motivation, discipline and a can do attitude from teachers of people rather is IMO/IME what can change this.
The problem is for many of these people a lack of maths degree is stopping them make the change.
Poor teachers with poor qualifications is not what I'm advocating. It's string teachers and roll models who are willing to develop subject knowledge on the job whilst still teaching lower level work to kids.
Where does group analysis help when you have a group of year 11s on E/F grades 3 months from their final GCSEs when their target is a C?
People with strong teaching skills are what is required, degree or not.

Seems this way to me too. You could literally be stuck on the lowest pay scale for years, and there's nothing to say otherwise. Incredibly depressing thought.

This is the first I'm hearing of this, can you please elaborate?

edit, found this -


Just to clarify - so before this date, the pay scale was based on an objective measurement (experience in years) and now it's based on a subjective measurement (opinion on teachers performance). Right?

Isn't that a little unfair? Couldn't a school, wanting to save money, essentially lie, and say they believe a teacher is not performing well enough to go up the pay scale?

Teaching like all jobs has its good parts and bad parts. I teach at what could be described as a tough school - the amount of students on free school meals is much higher than the national average, there was an Ofsted inspection last year where we got the worst grading possible mostly because of management and behaviour. The only reason I get up and do this everyday is because of the kids - I like interacting with them and making a difference to their lives, no matter how small. It is very difficult to maintain a positive attitude though, especially at the moment. The amount of observations have increased significantly - a senior manager might walk into your class at just the wrong moment and then it's your fault if kids are not on task. The amount of progress a child has to make is also being raised, I have a form group who are stuck in the middle of these changes and really feel for them. As one said to me the other day 'Miss, why do I have to do all these extra exams when my sister didn't have to?' The focus has completely shifted onto literacy, numeracy and learning facts. Yes, all these things are important but so is creativity and the chance to enjoy your childhood rather than feeling like a statistic with continuous targets from a young age. There is a lot of politics and restructuring since we turned into an academy, so the atmosphere is one of fear and uncertainty. People are scared to talk honestly unless somebody passes the comments onto senior management. People higher up in management are all scared because the Ofsted gradings were changed and if they are found to not be good enough they will be forced out, either directly or will be given such an unpleasant time that they eventually give in. Some academy bodies are increasingly turning to Teach First, take high flying grads into a school who are young with no family commitments. These workers will jump through all the hoops for a fixed period of time, then if/when they leave to pursue other careers the school can just replace them with another crop. Only do this if you are happy to have no life outside school for at least the first 3 years and are happy to suck up to people in senior management, whether you like/respect them or not.

I'm not officially aware of the exact figures for Primary but, being in it full time, I would suggest it is the same if not a little higher as you have responsibility for an entire class for every subject in addition to the pastoral side of the job. There's a lot more pit falls I would say.

Yup. I wonder quite how you are feeling now, after seeking information in your thread. What is your conclusion so far?

At last, it's not just me, Mr M and Tenofthem!

It's incredibly difficult. Like a lot of my friends, and applicants on here, I've been unemployed and job-hopping for years since I graduated. I do feel like teaching is the only way I am going to get any sort of job stability in my life.

But I wonder if I enjoy teaching enough. Sometimes I feel I'm in denial, like I'm convincing myself that I enjoy teaching, because I know it's the only option I have left.

Money is a motivator for me, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't one of the deciding factors. I want to be earning more than a teachers average salary, in my lifetime. I want to buy a house and start a family and not be worried about money or work all the time. My parents both used to earn about the same salary as a teacher, and I've seen them put work before family, and I've seen our family struggle financially. So I wonder how I will cope. The only thing I can think, is that maybe I shall just not have children.

I think I am going to take the attitude that someone posted earlier in this thread: 'It's only a year of your life, just try it, and see.' It's either I do that, or I sit around being unemployed or working low-pay jobs for another year. I don't think I will drop out of the PGCE. In fact, I am almost certain I won't, because I get a 4K bursary, and knowing that the remainder 5K of my money (even if it's a student loan) is going towards it, is enough motivation to keep me going to graduate with the PGCE. But I cannot say for sure what will happen afterwards.

It seems every other graduate I know, is doing, has done, or is considering, a PGCE. I wonder if in the future, the teaching profession will be over-saturated with PGCE graduates, if it isn't starting to head that way already...

It's not an accident - I mentioned this thread on the TES Opinion Forum and some people were sufficiently interested to take a look for themselves.

Thank you for sharing! I also agree, the TES forums were a real eye-opener for me, particularly about pay scales etc. I had no idea about a lot of the issues, until I read their forums, and it really made me rethink my decisions when applying.

May I ask what you were doing before you became a teacher?

Teaching like all jobs has its good parts and bad parts. I teach at what could be described as a tough school - the amount of students on free school meals is much higher than the national average, there was an Ofsted inspection last year where we got the worst grading possible mostly because of management and behaviour. The only reason I get up and do this everyday is because of the kids - I like interacting with them and making a difference to their lives, no matter how small. It is very difficult to maintain a positive attitude though, especially at the moment. The amount of observations have increased significantly - a senior manager might walk into your class at just the wrong moment and then it's your fault if kids are not on task. The amount of progress a child has to make is also being raised, I have a form group who are stuck in the middle of these changes and really feel for them. As one said to me the other day 'Miss, why do I have to do all these extra exams when my sister didn't have to?' The focus has completely shifted onto literacy, numeracy and learning facts. Yes, all these things are important but so is creativity and the chance to enjoy your childhood rather than feeling like a statistic with continuous targets from a young age. There is a lot of politics and restructuring since we turned into an academy, so the atmosphere is one of fear and uncertainty. People are scared to talk honestly unless somebody passes the comments onto senior management. People higher up in management are all scared because the Ofsted gradings were changed and if they are found to not be good enough they will be forced out, either directly or will be given such an unpleasant time that they eventually give in. Some academy bodies are increasingly turning to Teach First, take high flying grads into a school who are young with no family commitments. These workers will jump through all the hoops for a fixed period of time, then if/when they leave to pursue other careers the school can just replace them with another crop. Only do this if you are happy to have no life outside school for at least the first 3 years and are happy to suck up to people in senior management, whether you like/respect them or not.

Why do people always highlight the amount of kids on free meals?

Why do people always highlight the amount of kids on free meals?

It seems every other graduate I know, is doing, has done, or is considering, a PGCE. I wonder if in the future, the teaching profession will be over-saturated with PGCE graduates, if it isn't starting to head that way already...

Really? That surprises me actually. On my course of about 120, I only know one other person planning on going into teaching. And the usual reaction I get is that I'm wasting my degree.

What brings you here?

Why is that so bad? Have you seen what doctors put up with? Or police officers or lawyers or nurses? They cope with far worse abuse and from adults not children. I've decided not to enter teaching for other reasons but challenging behaviour was certainly never one of them. It's part of any public service job and at least in teaching the source of it is children who you can discipline.