Can we talk about the 40% PGCE drop out rate? Anyone here dropped out?
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I left my PGCE course yesterday. It was the hardest 7months of my life and I received knock after knock on my self confidence and general happiness. However, like yourself, I have met the man I hope to marry. I believe everything happens for a reason and if I didn't move to Exeter and start the course I wouldn't have met him. Just a case of deciding what to now, post PGCE dropout...
I've seen numerous people drop out of my course this year from a variety of subjects. I'm at the University of Worcester and I think they year started with about 175 PGCE students in total. This has now dwindled to just over 150 (according to a recent Ofsted report) so a loss of 25ish people, so around 15% (if my maths is right; I'm an English teacher, so don't trust my maths!).
The reasons that I am aware of are:
- they realised it wasn't for them fairly quickly so left within the first 1-4 weeks of the course
- they made it through first placement and got a "not on target" grade so dropped out rather than work hard at fixing that in their next placement
- they made it into second placement and within the first 2 weeks were having issues so dropped out
- they had a bad relationship with a mentor and didn't know how to fix it
- they failed an assignment numerous times and gave up
- health issues
- family issues
- they were miserable after the first couple of months of placement 2 and gave up
Now, most of these are not good reasons to leave and are indications, in my opinion, of somebody not cut out for teaching. That said, it's impossible to know if you ARE cut out for teaching without trying, which is what I think contributes to the high drop out rate for PGCE/NQT teachers.
Don't let the high rate put you off - there are people on my course I could have sworn in the first weeks would make excellent teachers who dropped out for whatever reason, and there are others who had the worst first couple of weeks and are now completely dominating the PGCE!
I myself came close to dropping out, and I can tell you that a lot of the reasons come down to that last point I made - people are miserable and stressed, tired, they don't have time to eat or sleep properly, they stop having a social life, they feel like all they do it work and work and work and still things don't go right a lot of the time. Welcome to the PGCE and the next 1-2 years after that too! But, if you are meant to be in this career, you will stick with it and you will fight through it and you will come out a better teacher for it.
The reasons that I am aware of are:
- they realised it wasn't for them fairly quickly so left within the first 1-4 weeks of the course
- they made it through first placement and got a "not on target" grade so dropped out rather than work hard at fixing that in their next placement
- they made it into second placement and within the first 2 weeks were having issues so dropped out
- they had a bad relationship with a mentor and didn't know how to fix it
- they failed an assignment numerous times and gave up
- health issues
- family issues
- they were miserable after the first couple of months of placement 2 and gave up
Now, most of these are not good reasons to leave and are indications, in my opinion, of somebody not cut out for teaching. That said, it's impossible to know if you ARE cut out for teaching without trying, which is what I think contributes to the high drop out rate for PGCE/NQT teachers.
Don't let the high rate put you off - there are people on my course I could have sworn in the first weeks would make excellent teachers who dropped out for whatever reason, and there are others who had the worst first couple of weeks and are now completely dominating the PGCE!
I myself came close to dropping out, and I can tell you that a lot of the reasons come down to that last point I made - people are miserable and stressed, tired, they don't have time to eat or sleep properly, they stop having a social life, they feel like all they do it work and work and work and still things don't go right a lot of the time. Welcome to the PGCE and the next 1-2 years after that too! But, if you are meant to be in this career, you will stick with it and you will fight through it and you will come out a better teacher for it.
Interesting topic with some good replies that strike a chord with me.
I jsut got observed last Thursday; at the end of it my mentor form university put the question to me;
Do you want to quit?
My answer in my head was yes, most definitely I want to quit, but I am tied up too much financially in this course to bow out now.
I am not as passionate about teaching as other people on my course, it makes me smile to see that they will go on to be great teachers but I will not be joining them on that journey.
I think you have to really want it on this course; I am a bit behind now on certain paperwork and for me it seems easier to give in than carry on.
My lessons are to a decent standard, I am failing on cutting out low level behaviour but I am struggling to find motivation to complete other tasks that I consider pointless. The learning journal being one of the most obvious one, I have to fill out two sections on my reflections on something, what a waste of time.
29 days of teaching left;
14 days until I lose my year 11 class
Not that Im counting down or anything...One day at a time.
I jsut got observed last Thursday; at the end of it my mentor form university put the question to me;
Do you want to quit?
My answer in my head was yes, most definitely I want to quit, but I am tied up too much financially in this course to bow out now.
I am not as passionate about teaching as other people on my course, it makes me smile to see that they will go on to be great teachers but I will not be joining them on that journey.
I think you have to really want it on this course; I am a bit behind now on certain paperwork and for me it seems easier to give in than carry on.
My lessons are to a decent standard, I am failing on cutting out low level behaviour but I am struggling to find motivation to complete other tasks that I consider pointless. The learning journal being one of the most obvious one, I have to fill out two sections on my reflections on something, what a waste of time.
29 days of teaching left;
14 days until I lose my year 11 class
Not that Im counting down or anything...One day at a time.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by milo12
I left my PGCE course yesterday. It was the hardest 7months of my life and I received knock after knock on my self confidence and general happiness. However, like yourself, I have met the man I hope to marry. I believe everything happens for a reason and if I didn't move to Exeter and start the course I wouldn't have met him. Just a case of deciding what to now, post PGCE dropout...
I was in the same position a year ago. All of my friends and family knew teaching was what I had wanted to do since I was at school and tried to tell me it was always going to be hard at first and I should stick it out. It took a lot of strength to insist that as I knew it was not for me long-term, any time I spent 'sticking it out' was time I could be spending getting into another career I enjoyed and not getting pigeon-holed into teaching. Looking back I can't believe it but I actually felt shameful, like I had 'betrayed my oath' or similar! Teaching consumes you, and it's only when you get out that you realise it's just a job and there are so many jobs out there.
For seven months I did an entry level graduate job where I got paid £15,000. I still loved it. I arrived at 9:00, didn't have to worry about taking anything with me but my lunch (and even if I forgot my lunch I was actually allowed off the premises to buy some!). Left work at 5pm and did what I wanted for the rest of the evening, every evening. Could get up from my desk whenever I wanted to make tea or visit the bathroom, never felt like I had to rush my food, could take pride in my work and actually have time to do it to a high standard... I could go on.
Nothing about getting into teaching or getting out of teaching was ever financially motivated for me but it's also worth noting that a year later I've now managed to leave my entry level role and get a new job paying what I'd be on in my third year of teaching (I would be an NQT).
It makes me sad to write these words as I really was ready to do something worthwhile with my career and hopefully help educate the future generation even though I knew it would be hard - but unfortunately I found that doing the job properly and being happy and healthy weren't possible together and ultimately I had to put myself first before I got so far into teaching I had difficulty getting out. Good luck in your next pursuits.
(edited 9 years ago)
There is so much of this discussion that I can identify with. I'm seven weeks from finishing my PGCE in primary and I've been struggling to adapt to my final placement school. For most of Easter I was feeling anxious at the thought of returning to school and have spent the past two weeks losing sleep, feeling sick and generally going out of my mind with worry. I feel I'm not up to passing and have had to be persuaded out of quitting by university tutors and my class teacher - although sticking it out is the last thing I want to do.
The thing is, my first placement was extremely positive: I was consistently getting good with outstanding grades-wise and I can't work out if this was because my teacher at my last school was just being kind or if I was once not too bad at teaching. Either way, my confidence is shot and I have decided to not pursue teaching once 27th June comes around. Roll on summer, it can't come soon enough.
The thing is, my first placement was extremely positive: I was consistently getting good with outstanding grades-wise and I can't work out if this was because my teacher at my last school was just being kind or if I was once not too bad at teaching. Either way, my confidence is shot and I have decided to not pursue teaching once 27th June comes around. Roll on summer, it can't come soon enough.
I cant wait for summer either; I'm off to Germany for summer camps where I'll be water skiing amongst other activities shortly before returning to Latin America for a year!
Ok, so it's a week since my last post and I still feel sick at the thought of going into school tomorrow. Aware this is not normal. Also painfully aware that this is my interim week and that I will know soon just how terribly I'm doing on this final placement. If anyone can offer any advice about how to get through the next six weeks, it would be gratefully appreciated as this is just awful!
Original post by Rollonsummertime
Ok, so it's a week since my last post and I still feel sick at the thought of going into school tomorrow. Aware this is not normal. Also painfully aware that this is my interim week and that I will know soon just how terribly I'm doing on this final placement. If anyone can offer any advice about how to get through the next six weeks, it would be gratefully appreciated as this is just awful!
I think a lot of it's about the school. I met someone who is really happy teaching now in a school she loves but in her nqt year she was completely unsupported and hated the school, and she said she used to think "If I crashed this car I wouldn't have to go in to work today" (actually I've heard two different teachers say they've felt like that which is kind of scary!). So the school can completely alert the situation.
Xxx
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Original post by Rollonsummertime
Ok, so it's a week since my last post and I still feel sick at the thought of going into school tomorrow. Aware this is not normal. Also painfully aware that this is my interim week and that I will know soon just how terribly I'm doing on this final placement. If anyone can offer any advice about how to get through the next six weeks, it would be gratefully appreciated as this is just awful!
You are so close to the end that I would encourage you to complete the course. Your feeling of sickness is partially nerves about the judgement you are soon to receive. If you think it is more than this and the job is actually making you ill then you need to put your health first.
Original post by kpwxx
I think a lot of it's about the school. I met someone who is really happy teaching now in a school she loves but in her nqt year she was completely unsupported and hated the school, and she said she used to think "If I crashed this car I wouldn't have to go in to work today" (actually I've heard two different teachers say they've felt like that which is kind of scary!). So the school can completely alert the situation.
Xxx
Posted from TSR Mobile
Xxx
Posted from TSR Mobile
Thanks so much for your comment. You're right, it's definitely the school and the pressure that seems to be thrown upon all staff as well as students there. Based on conversations with staff there seems to be a lot of expectations placed on them and, while I've said nothing in response so as not to get involved in gossip, it definitely seems that this school is very different. It's certainly different to my first placement school.
Oddly enough, I have actually had thoughts like that. Not so much crashing cars, but I have been hoping it would be closed indefinitely or that something out of my hands would happen, meaning that I wouldn't have to go back there. Worse still, the school I'm in is my former primary, so it's totally trashing my memories of the place. I guess I'll know more after interim, but it's tough.
xx
Original post by Mr M
You are so close to the end that I would encourage you to complete the course. Your feeling of sickness is partially nerves about the judgement you are soon to receive. If you think it is more than this and the job is actually making you ill then you need to put your health first.
Thanks so much for your reply, Mr M. My uni tutor has actually suggested I try obtaining a sick note and deferring as I was so worked up about everything. But then I spoke to family and friends and they all pointed out that it's not long to the end now. It just seems a bit futile if I'm getting into this state for a lesson that is borderline 3/4. Interim will certainly reveal more, but I'm not so sure this will be the impetus to make me stick around. Should my tutor agree with the judgement of my class teacher and recommend me staying on until July to bring my grade up I'm fairly certain I'd just walk away from the course after this week. Crying and feeling sick isn't normal and I feel like I've lost sight of why I decided to go into the profession.
Original post by Rollonsummertime
Thanks so much for your comment. You're right, it's definitely the school and the pressure that seems to be thrown upon all staff as well as students there. Based on conversations with staff there seems to be a lot of expectations placed on them and, while I've said nothing in response so as not to get involved in gossip, it definitely seems that this school is very different. It's certainly different to my first placement school.
Oddly enough, I have actually had thoughts like that. Not so much crashing cars, but I have been hoping it would be closed indefinitely or that something out of my hands would happen, meaning that I wouldn't have to go back there. Worse still, the school I'm in is my former primary, so it's totally trashing my memories of the place. I guess I'll know more after interim, but it's tough.
xx
Oddly enough, I have actually had thoughts like that. Not so much crashing cars, but I have been hoping it would be closed indefinitely or that something out of my hands would happen, meaning that I wouldn't have to go back there. Worse still, the school I'm in is my former primary, so it's totally trashing my memories of the place. I guess I'll know more after interim, but it's tough.
xx
I guess the thing in your situation is just to keep reminding yourself that you just have a few weeks left. You did well on your first placement and chances are the atmosphere etc at the current school are impacting on your performance (along with it being better than you think anyway). Confidence has such a HUGE effect and like you said your confidence has been kind of trodden on... but just think back to the first placement and think how many children you helped, if just a bit. After this year you can move on to whatever you want, be able to tell people you survived a really tough year (great for your CV) and know that you helped some children learn, which really is a wonderful thing to do.
xxx
Original post by Rollonsummertime
Thanks so much for your reply, Mr M. My uni tutor has actually suggested I try obtaining a sick note and deferring as I was so worked up about everything. But then I spoke to family and friends and they all pointed out that it's not long to the end now. It just seems a bit futile if I'm getting into this state for a lesson that is borderline 3/4. Interim will certainly reveal more, but I'm not so sure this will be the impetus to make me stick around. Should my tutor agree with the judgement of my class teacher and recommend me staying on until July to bring my grade up I'm fairly certain I'd just walk away from the course after this week. Crying and feeling sick isn't normal and I feel like I've lost sight of why I decided to go into the profession.
I feel so sad for you. I know exactly how you feel and if it doesn't stop, then there is no shame in walking away. Making yourself ill is no way to start any career.
Original post by Rollonsummertime
Crying and feeling sick isn't normal and I feel like I've lost sight of why I decided to go into the profession.
It certainly shouldn't be considered 'normal' but I'm afraid it is not uncommon. I hope you feel a bit better soon.
Original post by kpwxx
I guess the thing in your situation is just to keep reminding yourself that you just have a few weeks left. You did well on your first placement and chances are the atmosphere etc at the current school are impacting on your performance (along with it being better than you think anyway). Confidence has such a HUGE effect and like you said your confidence has been kind of trodden on... but just think back to the first placement and think how many children you helped, if just a bit. After this year you can move on to whatever you want, be able to tell people you survived a really tough year (great for your CV) and know that you helped some children learn, which really is a wonderful thing to do.
xxx
xxx
Thanks so much. I guess I'll know more by the end of the week, but I hate wishing my life away like this. Worse still, I'm usually a positive person (although the comments I've made so far portray a pessimistic one). You're right though; getting to the end will make this whole year worthwhile. I just need to get through it. xx
Original post by carnationlilyrose
I feel so sad for you. I know exactly how you feel and if it doesn't stop, then there is no shame in walking away. Making yourself ill is no way to start any career.
Thank you so much for your response. I really hope things change but as I'm halfway through the placement I'm not sure it will and this feeling of dread isn't subsiding at all. I might have to walk away if only to keep my sanity - and that of my family and friends, who are all a bit stressed out with me.
Thanks Mr M. It looks like I have some big decisions to make.
Original post by Rollonsummertime
Thank you so much for your response. I really hope things change but as I'm halfway through the placement I'm not sure it will and this feeling of dread isn't subsiding at all. I might have to walk away if only to keep my sanity - and that of my family and friends, who are all a bit stressed out with me.
I hope it works out for you. I walked away from something myself in similar circumstances and never regretted it. Good luck.
Original post by carnationlilyrose
I hope it works out for you. I walked away from something myself in similar circumstances and never regretted it. Good luck.
Thanks carnationlilyrose, that's so reassuring to know that walking away isn't terrible. Seeking advice from friends on my course has meant that I have been led to believe that leaving is the worst idea ever. Another six weeks of feeling like this isn't what I want. You've really helped me, thank you. x
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