Gove right to have children knowing 12 x tables by age of 10?

Did anyone go beyond 12 times table?

The National Curriculum has suggested up to 12 but I am wondering if it's beneficial to go beyond this or whether other numerical skills should be prioritised?

Pisa suggests we're lagging internationally in numeracy (and most other subjects) and, anecdotally, I see and experience poor numeracy on a daily basis.

Despite potentially disengaging young people, is Gove not attempting to address a serious problem with our education system?

I really feel for good teachers as they are under enough pressure but a back-to-basics traditionalist approach deserves to be considered.

Reply 1

little_wizard123

19

If you don't have an interest in maths, it's very hard to get. I'd say about 80% of over 16's couldn't answer multiplication questions instantly (less than 12x12), which is appalling really. I've known people who literally cannot divide small numbers by 2. I don't associate with this sort if I have to, though.

Maths is obviously a very good skill to have though, it just needs to be made more appealing to non-numerical students.

Reply 2

Tyrion_Lannister

19

Sorry but who cares? Why is this a necessary skill? It's useful to know but certainly not one of the most important things. I still work out multiplictions by sounding them out, works for me, I don't care how stupid you think that makes me

Reply 3

username91207

16

I knew my 12 times table at the age of 10. I thought this was common :erm:

obviously not.

Reply 4

username911777

15

I can't work them out instantly, does that make me an idiot?

Reply 5

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

My Year 5 (so age 9-10) teacher was a bit bonkers and insisted we learnt up to the 18 times table, because it would help us in later life or some **** like that. That was only for the top set of Year 5 though, who sat on a separate table to everyone.

So to me, saying they need to know their 12 times tables doesn't sound that tall an order :dontknow:

Then again, I do acknowledge that some people won't find the 12 times tables as straightforward as my Year 5 teacher made it out to be :dontknow:

Reply 6

Flauta

9

I've known up to my 20 times table since I was about 11. Really really helpful for countdown :rolleyes:

Reply 7

BurstingBubbles

Life & Style Forum Helper

20

I knew my 12x by about 8 :tongue:

it's the changes to exams he's making that we need to be worried about

Reply 8

matty123

9

Gove is just shouting making alot of noise hoping someone will listen and give him the attention he so desires.

Reply 9

Boromir

The fact is we have to compete with the world to make ourselves a living. Why is there outrage when someone tries to do something about it?

We've had years of Labour's failings; mediocrity is not the best we should aim for. That is a socialist myth. Rejoice in the fact that someone is finally tackling the problem.

Reply 10

Manitude

20

12s are pretty pointless. Everything after ten can be calculated with knowledge of everything up to ten times table.

Reply 11

joey11223

20

Original post by Manitude

12s are pretty pointless. Everything after ten can be calculated with knowledge of everything up to ten times table.

Aye I've always thought about that.

Personally I knew far beyond that sort of thing as I went to Kumon maths, it's kind of funny, if I looked at the sort of stuff I did as a younger child now, I'd be totally lost.

Maths is not everyone's strong point however 12 x tables by 10 is totally realistic IMO. I appreciate conditions like dyslexia exist but I do think we mollycoddle children too much these days, "oh it's okay if you're not at maths", people comment about their poor numeracy skills like it's something to be a proud of, almost like their boasting. "haha well I'm not good at numbers!". No, it's not funny, you're a ******* idiot. If you said the same thing about basic speech you'd be ridiculed, it's not acceptable to speak slang because you can't be bothered to understand/learn a proper vocabulary, so why is it okay not to understand 9x5=45? Hell you see it on programs like The Apprentice. There's always a couple of cooking episodes where someone royally screws up by trying to divide the weights of ingredients in a recipe by 10 or 5, and they just can't do it.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 12

Manitude

20

Original post by joey11223

Aye I've always thought about that.

Personally I knew far beyond that sort of thing as I went to Kumon maths, it's kind of funny, if I looked at the sort of stuff I did as a younger child now, I'd be totally lost.

Maths is not everyone's strong point however 12 x tables by 10 is totally realistic IMO. I appreciate conditions like dyslexia exist but I do think we mollycoddle children too much these days, "oh it's okay if you're not at maths", people comment about their poor numeracy skills like it's something to be a proud of, almost like their boasting. "haha well I'm not good at numbers!". No, it's not funny, you're a ******* idiot. If you said the same thing about basic speech you'd be ridiculed, it's not acceptable to speak slang because you can't be bothered to understand/learn a proper vocabulary, so why is it okay not to understand 9x5=45? Hell you see it on programs like The Apprentice. There's always a couple of cooking episodes where someone royally screws up by trying to divide the weights of ingredients in a recipe by 10 or 5, and they just can't do it.

People claiming they're "dyslexic with numbers" as a badge of honour is disturbingly common. I pretty damn sure that people who've been diagnosed with discalculia would at least know the name of the condition they've been diagnosed with!

Reply 13

Eva.Gregoria

21

Britain is seriously lacking behind the rest of the world academically if this wasn't already expected in the first place.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 14

joey11223

20

Original post by Manitude

People claiming they're "dyslexic with numbers" as a badge of honour is disturbingly common. I pretty damn sure that people who've been diagnosed with discalculia would at least know the name of the condition they've been diagnosed with!

Ah I did forget there's an accurate diagnosis, I hear dyslexia used all the time to the extent I forgot that. Suppose it's like paedophilia with teenagers, you never here ephebophile or hebephile.

I think a lot of people self diagnose such things as an excuse for their lack of effort. I didn't have the effort to put work into understanding French when I did my GCSE, but I won't pretend I suffer from some sort of language learning issue.

Reply 15

Manitude

20

Original post by joey11223

Ah I did forget there's an accurate diagnosis, I hear dyslexia used all the time to the extent I forgot that. Suppose it's like paedophilia with teenagers, you never here ephebophile or hebephile.

I think a lot of people self diagnose such things as an excuse for their lack of effort. I didn't have the effort to put work into understanding French when I did my GCSE, but I won't pretend I suffer from some sort of language learning issue.

Pretty much, yeah.
I was quite bad at arithmetic when I was very young. I did, however, very much enjoy it despite this.
And 15 years later I'd say I'm pretty damn good at maths. Maybe not arithmetic because I use a calculator :tongue:

Reply 16