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"There is no other god beside GOD,"(47:19)

"There is nothing that equals (like) Him." (42:11)

"My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols." (14:35)


Now I can understand why muslims might not want to kick a football which bears the name of Allah, but perhaps these radical Muslims may wish to consider whether they are actually defying their own God by appearing to worship a ball which bears His name rather than Allah Himself. After all, there is "nothing equal like Him" and muslims should be protected from "worshipping idols". There is, afterall, no other thing to worship [no other God] but Allah.

"No visions can encompass Him", apparently. I think that can refer to a "ball" as well. Since when did some writing become Allah? Nothing, other that Allah Himself, can truly reflect the God of Islam. Therefore, whilst I can accept some reservations amongst the Muslim community, I think the protesters have taken it too far.

The Americans, whilst arguably should have taken more consideration of the culture they were in, aren't truly to blame. Heck, I hardly look at what logos are printed on my footballs.

Just a thought.
I hardly think they were venerating the ball :smile:
They are dangerously close to doing so though. Why should a ball demand so much attention? Nothing can illustrate Allah; He is beyond comprehension, according to Islamic scriptures. These riots just tend to be started for the sake of it, with no scriptural authority behind them. The ball only showed a Saudi Arabian flag which shows a tiny Koranic declaration of faith. The mericans did not mean to offend but were rathr helping out the country by providing footballs. If you object to the idea of kicking the football, then simply don't use the football - keep it in a nice place.
TML
They are dangerously close to doing so though. Why should a ball demand so much attention? Nothing can illustrate Allah; He is beyond comprehension, according to Islamic scriptures. These riots just tend to be started for the sake of it, with no scriptural authority behind them. The ball only showed a Saudi Arabian flag which shows a tiny Koranic declaration of faith. The mericans did not mean to offend but were rathr helping out the country by providing footballs. If you object to the idea of kicking the football, then simply don't use the football - keep it in a nice place.


Quite so, but not close to worshipping the ball.
Reply 24
1.9.8.4.
Well, no is claiming that the US distributed the balls with the intention to cause offence, but I think it could have been avoided.

I mean who doesn't know the religious nature of the Saudi flag? Same goes for the Iranian flag, but obviously with the US distributing the balls, it did not contain the Iranian flag.


It's the freaking Olympics ball. :rolleyes: It contains the flags of every national team playing soccer in the next Olympics.
Bismarck
It's the freaking Olympics ball. :rolleyes: It contains the flags of every national team playing soccer in the next Olympics.


Well there you go then. The Afghans were right. Everyone knows that the Olympics are a celebration for the god of Greece. :wink:

A quick question for those in the know related to the veneration of footballs; has anyone heard of a form of idolatory involving two vertical stones and a horizontal one atop them like Stonehenge?
Quite so, but not close to worshipping the ball.

It is, actually, or rather that was what I was trying to convey. By complaining over a piece of writing on a ball then you start losing the true meaning of the Qur'an and what the Qur'an says about Allah, but rather start portraying the ball as some form of idol for your God - something which many passages in the Qur'an [as I've highlighted in green] rejects. If it's not treating the ball as an entity worthy of worship, then they are periously close to making it so.
TML
It is, actually, or rather that was what I was trying to convey. By complaining over a piece of writing on a ball then you start losing the true meaning of the Qur'an and what the Qur'an says about Allah, but rather start portraying the ball as some form of idol for your God - something which many passages in the Qur'an [as I've highlighted in green] rejects.


I think that's quite a large jump. If the ball contains verses of the Koran then to use it would be to show complete disrespect for the Koran and its verses and by extension God himself.

I would look at it in the following way. One can have complete respect and fear for a man. If that man had a car I wouldn't dream of scratching it. Not because I fear or respect the car but because the car belongs to the man. This is the same. Their feelings to the ball are not because of the ball or the verse but because the ball contains a verse from God.
UniOfLife
I think that's quite a large jump. If the ball contains verses of the Koran then to use it would be to show complete disrespect for the Koran and its verses and by extension God himself.

The ball contains one small verse as part of one flag which mentions the name Allah. I fully understand why muslims may not wish to use the ball because they dislike the idea of kicking it in the mud. In fact, I would respect and support their decision. However to make a big "song and dance" about it as seems to be the trend amongst radical muslims today purely because of a small and honest mistake by the US seems, to me, a bit over the top. It is only a piece of writing. Sure, I would feel uncomfortable kicking a ball that beared the name of Jesus, however I wouldn't protest - I'd merely keep the ball or even sell it on ebay. The writing is not Allah Himself.

"There is no other god beside GOD,"(47:19)

"There is nothing that equals (like) Him." (42:11)

"My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols." (14:35)

"No visions can encompass Him"

I would look at it in the following way. One can have complete respect and fear for a man. If that man had a car I wouldn't dream of scratching it. Not because I fear or respect the car but because the car belongs to the man. This is the same. Their feelings to the ball are not because of the ball or the verse but because the ball contains a verse from God.

The ball does not directly belong to Allah, it merely bears His name in Arabic over it [very small as part of a phrase from one of the flags]. I wouldn't encourage Muslims to kick it about, but I wouldn't encourage them to make a big protest over it [and it's not the first occasion, either] since it seems to convey a sense that the ball is a symbol of Allah, which contradicts the Qur'an's message. It was an honest mistake by the Americans.

It's like a smaller version of the Danish cartoon controversy. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the Muslims that peacefully exercised their right to boycotted Danish goods, but the people that caused a fuss for the sake of it [letting their hair down and burning flags] deserve nothing but a reality check.
I agree completely except that the fuss being made is more political than religious. From a religious standpoint one would simply not use the football, perhaps try and explain to the US commanders why not and offer to help them design a more acceptable football.

However, the protests are there to whip up opposition to the US presence, to agitate and gain support for the insurgents. It is designed to paint the US as neo-crusaders with no respect for Islam and an aim of wiping it out. The fuss has little to do with the ball and a lot to do with Islamism.
I agree completely except that the fuss being made is more political than religious. From a religious standpoint one would simply not use the football, perhaps try and explain to the US commanders why not and offer to help them design a more acceptable football.

However, the protests are there to whip up opposition to the US presence, to agitate and gain support for the insurgents. It is designed to paint the US as neo-crusaders with no respect for Islam and an aim of wiping it out. The fuss has little to do with the ball and a lot to do with Islamism.

Indeed, which is why I'm saying that, in my opinion, their protest is not religiously justified. It may well be political [I'd probably agree with you there] but that doesn't justify the actions of these people either. In fact, it portrays them as quite opportunistic - willing to make a fuss under the veil of religion purely to serve their own political intentions. It's this sort of mixture of "faulty" religion with politics that gives Islam, and various other religions, a bad name.
TML
Indeed, which is why I'm saying that, in my opinion, their protest is not religiously justified. It may well be political [I'd probably agree with you there] but that doesn't justify the actions of these people either. In fact, it portrays them as quite opportunistic - willing to make a fuss under the veil of religion purely to serve their own political intentions. It's this sort of mixture of "faulty" religion with politics that gives Islam, and various other religions, a bad name.


Couldn't agree more.
Reply 32
UniOfLife
imo, being the cynical guys that I am, is manufactured and whipped up by individuals for their own ends.


bit like a certain episode involving some little drawings.
Thud
bit like a certain episode involving some little drawings.


Exactly. And not entirely unlike a story involving a certain teaching assistant who couldn't do her job properly.
Reply 34
Are they dropping American footballs or (soccer) footballs? Because you can't really accuse them of cultural insensitivity if they're dropping soccer balls, soccer isn't exactly a major sport in the Us and maybe since there was the whole Asia cup not so long ago maybe they thought footballs would be nice. I think they're just angry because there's sand everywhere.
Reply 35
1.9.8.4.
A demonstration has been held in south- east Afghanistan accusing US troops of insulting Islam after they distributed footballs bearing the name of Allah.

The balls showed the Saudi Arabian flag which features the Koranic declaration of faith.

The US military said the idea had been to give something for Afghan children to enjoy and they did not realise it would cause offence. The footballs were dropped from a helicopter in Khost province.

I see this as just another incident demonstrating the United States' failure to think outside its own cultural box and causing strife. Whether you agree with that view or not, will the US ever get its act together?


I'm not sure you "get it".

The soccer balls were international olympic ones, probably made in China.

Why would the US army, along with the Canadians, Germans, etc other nationals... be expected to translate Arabic , when the predominant languages spoken (and they are learning) are Pashto and Duri?

Is this basically another post to stereotype the Yanks as unable to appreciate other cultures, according to you? And as hopelessly ignorant?

Only 100 people protested.

Perhaps the best way for the US to get it's act together....is to not do anything at all outside it's own borders...that would please a great number of people.:rolleyes:
Reply 36
UniOfLife
Precited by whom, though? You seem to assume that the US soldiers have a knowledge of the culture and religion when they patently do not. Most Americans couldn't even pinpoint Afghanistan on a map.
However, most (if not all) soldiers have a serious interest in where they'll be deployed and can often be very knowledgeable, your comment is slightly prejudiced and presumptious.
Reply 37
djchak
Perhaps the best way for the US to get it's act together....is to not do anything at all outside it's own borders...that would please a great number of people.:rolleyes:
Alternatively if they MOABed the ****-hole we'd be done with all of this *******s.
Reply 38
djchak
The soccer balls were international olympic ones, probably made in China.


I was not aware of that and it does sort of changes stuff, but it still does not alleviate the relevant US personnel of responsibility.

djchak
Why would the US army, along with the Canadians, Germans, etc other nationals... be expected to translate Arabic , when the predominant languages spoken (and they are learning) are Pashto and Duri?:


Again, like I said before, I guess I grossly overestimated the intelligence of US personnel and those responsible on the ground in Afghanistan. I thought it was common knowledge that the Saudi flag had the Islamic declaration of faith, in the same way that people know that there are 50 stars and 13 banners on the US flag.

djchak
Is this basically another post to stereotype the Yanks as unable to appreciate other cultures, according to you? And as hopelessly ignorant?


No, it's not necessarily a stereotype. We're discussing a particular incident here. Perhaps its because of my Turkish heritage, but I know how sensitive a given society can be on issues as sensitive as patriotism and religion.

djchak
Only 100 people protested.


That is true.

djchak
Perhaps the best way for the US to get it's act together....is to not do anything at all outside it's own borders...that would please a great number of people.:rolleyes:


Yes, it would please a lot of people actually.
Reply 39
1.9.8.4.
Yes, it would please a lot of people actually.
Including anyone outside of the US, UK, terrorist organisations and warlord factions?

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