I'm not joking, St. Anger (the song) is a BANGER... I'M MADLY IN ANGER WITH YOU!! Ok, maybe the lyrics aren't the most inventive but it's a tune 100%. I love Purify and All Within My Hands... and let's not forget about Frantic. The album is so groovy, the drum tone is INTENSE. And you know, Lulu isn't TOO bad either. It's still incredibly weird but the backing tracks are good. I mean, both of them aren't Kill 'em All by any means, but I really don't get the hate at all.
The song is too long by about 3 minutes, and the whole record sounds like it was written by a semi-literate 14 year old. That's poor by any metric. It is for all intents and purposes a Taproot record, just worse produced. The songs don't sound as bad overall with better production (I've seen them do some live and there was a marked improvement) but they aren't good songs. Of course they are never gonna hit the heights of Puppets again, but the first four records were so good that we might expect a 'there or thereabouts' deal. Hardwired is the best thing they did since the Black Album (excluding the covers record which was great) and even that's not great imo.
Lulu is a different beast. Risky and weird and audacious and it just doesn't quite work. It was always gonna be a risk cos Lou Reed is so madcap as an artist. People missed the point of it and it was never ever going to be a 'Metallica record' but also it didn't really hit any of its marks. I have more sympathy for Lulu because it's more clear to me what they were going for, and the risks they took to try to achieve that. It's a shame it didn't work but it was very ambitious and most very ambitious things fail.
Lulu is a different beast. Risky and weird and audacious and it just doesn't quite work. It was always gonna be a risk cos Lou Reed is so madcap as an artist. People missed the point of it and it was never ever going to be a 'Metallica record' but also it didn't really hit any of its marks. I have more sympathy for Lulu because it's more clear to me what they were going for, and the risks they took to try to achieve that. It's a shame it didn't work but it was very ambitious and most very ambitious things fail.
(edited 4 months ago)
I appreciate that St. Anger isn't by Metallica standards a 'good album', but that is only because the first four were incredible. However, I don't think that it is a bad album. Again, the lyrics aren't great, but I personally think there are some good parts:
The thing is, St. Anger isn't telling a story. It is in the present, it is raw feeling. Some kind of monster (the documentary) shows how fragile James is at that point, and the journey of his recovery. St. Anger is really HIS album. It's not overly produced, its heavy and groovy. I think that because everyone was expecting something similar to puppets or ride the lightning, it was a shock. But I still don't think that makes this album bad. It just isn't AS good.
Hardwired is good, Death Magnetic is incredible, and I really like 72 seasons as well. In fact, I might be willing to say 72 seasons is as good as the Black Album. It has it all, thrash, groove, emotion, catchiness...
I mostly agree with you about Lulu. I think the reason it doesn't work is just because it is so. *******. weird. But yeah, it isn't a Metallica album, or a Lou Reed album, so its hard to see who would actually enjoy it haha.
It just irks me that people disregard St. Anger so quickly. Even I did that, and I hadn't even listened to it. It has a bad rep, not due to its actual content, but because it was so different to expectations. Then again, I can appreciate that because it is so different, old Metallica fans may not like that sound. Still doesn't make it a bad album though.
•
"Not only do I not know the answer, I don't even know what the question is"
•
"I'm madly in anger with you"
•
"If I could have my wasted days back, would I use them to get back on track?"
•
"And I want my anger to be healthy, and I want my anger just for me, and I need my anger not to control, and I want my anger to be me"
The thing is, St. Anger isn't telling a story. It is in the present, it is raw feeling. Some kind of monster (the documentary) shows how fragile James is at that point, and the journey of his recovery. St. Anger is really HIS album. It's not overly produced, its heavy and groovy. I think that because everyone was expecting something similar to puppets or ride the lightning, it was a shock. But I still don't think that makes this album bad. It just isn't AS good.
Hardwired is good, Death Magnetic is incredible, and I really like 72 seasons as well. In fact, I might be willing to say 72 seasons is as good as the Black Album. It has it all, thrash, groove, emotion, catchiness...
I mostly agree with you about Lulu. I think the reason it doesn't work is just because it is so. *******. weird. But yeah, it isn't a Metallica album, or a Lou Reed album, so its hard to see who would actually enjoy it haha.
It just irks me that people disregard St. Anger so quickly. Even I did that, and I hadn't even listened to it. It has a bad rep, not due to its actual content, but because it was so different to expectations. Then again, I can appreciate that because it is so different, old Metallica fans may not like that sound. Still doesn't make it a bad album though.
Original post by sadfailure
I appreciate that St. Anger isn't by Metallica standards a 'good album', but that is only because the first four were incredible. However, I don't think that it is a bad album. Again, the lyrics aren't great, but I personally think there are some good parts:
The thing is, St. Anger isn't telling a story. It is in the present, it is raw feeling. Some kind of monster (the documentary) shows how fragile James is at that point, and the journey of his recovery. St. Anger is really HIS album. It's not overly produced, its heavy and groovy. I think that because everyone was expecting something similar to puppets or ride the lightning, it was a shock. But I still don't think that makes this album bad. It just isn't AS good.
Hardwired is good, Death Magnetic is incredible, and I really like 72 seasons as well. In fact, I might be willing to say 72 seasons is as good as the Black Album. It has it all, thrash, groove, emotion, catchiness...
I mostly agree with you about Lulu. I think the reason it doesn't work is just because it is so. *******. weird. But yeah, it isn't a Metallica album, or a Lou Reed album, so its hard to see who would actually enjoy it haha.
It just irks me that people disregard St. Anger so quickly. Even I did that, and I hadn't even listened to it. It has a bad rep, not due to its actual content, but because it was so different to expectations. Then again, I can appreciate that because it is so different, old Metallica fans may not like that sound. Still doesn't make it a bad album though.
•
"Not only do I not know the answer, I don't even know what the question is"
•
"I'm madly in anger with you"
•
"If I could have my wasted days back, would I use them to get back on track?"
•
"And I want my anger to be healthy, and I want my anger just for me, and I need my anger not to control, and I want my anger to be me"
The thing is, St. Anger isn't telling a story. It is in the present, it is raw feeling. Some kind of monster (the documentary) shows how fragile James is at that point, and the journey of his recovery. St. Anger is really HIS album. It's not overly produced, its heavy and groovy. I think that because everyone was expecting something similar to puppets or ride the lightning, it was a shock. But I still don't think that makes this album bad. It just isn't AS good.
Hardwired is good, Death Magnetic is incredible, and I really like 72 seasons as well. In fact, I might be willing to say 72 seasons is as good as the Black Album. It has it all, thrash, groove, emotion, catchiness...
I mostly agree with you about Lulu. I think the reason it doesn't work is just because it is so. *******. weird. But yeah, it isn't a Metallica album, or a Lou Reed album, so its hard to see who would actually enjoy it haha.
It just irks me that people disregard St. Anger so quickly. Even I did that, and I hadn't even listened to it. It has a bad rep, not due to its actual content, but because it was so different to expectations. Then again, I can appreciate that because it is so different, old Metallica fans may not like that sound. Still doesn't make it a bad album though.
I dunno, those lyrics might have impressed me when I was an angsty teenager skateboarding in the local park but as a grown man, it is hard for me to think of a way in which any of those could possibly be any more cliched. Year 9 jotter poetry.
I bought St Anger on release day when I was what, 16? it was clear to me then that it was **** poor and time has not been any kinder. It's not even a good contemporary record, it's Metallica trying to get on board the nu metal tran and failing miserably, a poor Taproot release is really how I see it. To my mind it's not a bad album because it's different, it's just a bad album. It'd be a bad album if any other act had released it.
I know we all have opinions and tastes but I laughed when I read 72 Seasons is as good as the Black Album. I am by no means a Metallica fanboy (indeed most of them dislike the Black Album, too) but that's such a dodgy shout I can't fathom it. For me Metallica are relic and have been for 20-odd years. I'll still go see them live but it's because I want to shout along to Creeping Death and not because I think they're worth too much as a contemporary act. I have listened to 72 seasons precisely twice, and that was only to get a feel for if I could work any in at the rock nights I jock.
Since its release, I've been asked for Lux Aeterna twice and for anything else of it not even once. Just an average metal release for me that can't be mentioned in the same breath as the Black Album. At the same time I do acknowledge what you're getting at and I broadly agree that we need to be careful of dismissing new stuff and needlessly or unfairly eulogising band's older output. But there are bands like Venom Inc putting out great records 40 years into their careers. metallica just are not doing that.
(edited 3 months ago)
Haha ok, I guess being a 17 year old does slightly change my point of view. I still wouldn't say they are bad lyrics, but they are somewhat cliche, I concur.
It's easy to say in retrospect that it isn't because it's different. I'm not saying you are lying, but I do think it is a contributing factor in why you don't like it. I mean there was, as you rightly say, a dislike for the black album when it came out. That was because it wasn't their heavy thrash sound, it was new. Dark, moody, angsty and (my fav) GROOVY. No one can say that the Black Album is a bad album. But people still disliked it. However, come today, it is definitely their most popular album - I won't say mainstream because I doubt many know Of Wolf and Man. Proving that it wasn't a bad album, just took some getting used to. Metallica grew up a little. So their sound changed.
One thing I will say about St Anger is that because Metallica were so old (well not SO old but you know) when they produced that, it was a little off putting. It didn't fit what a band of 40 year olds should make. It is definitely angst filled, and would have suited being a debut album for a new, young, up and coming band. Though, I will have to harshly disagree that it would be a bad album if any other band produced it. It's good. Just not on the level we expect from Metallica.
Haha, I know it's an unpopular opinion - surprise, surprise, I'm full of those. If 72 Seasons had been released earlier and given more time, I think it would be regarded on a similar level (maybe not the SAME). I mean, Inamorata is just reason enough. I love it. The Black Album is iconic, but there are some really good songs on 72 Seasons. The title track is epic, Screaming Suicide obviously, Crown of Barbed Wire etc. You Must Burn, Sleepwalk My Life Away, Room of Mirrors... they aren't as good imo, but the Black Album wasn't all amazing either.: Holier Than Thou, The Struggle Within, My Friend of Misery. Now, DO NOT get me wrong, these aren't bad songs in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. But they don't hit as hard as Sad But True or Don't Tread on Me.
Going off on a tangent, I would die to see Jason Newstead's Creeping Death live. He added so much to that song.
Anyway, I also see what you are saying, opinions will differ. I mean, I don't like Venom too much and they are a CLASSIC band. I will say though that Metallica still have amazing music. I take back what I said about 72 Seasons, but instead apply it to Death Magnetic. The Unforgiven 3 is the best version, All Nightmare Long was all I would play for 3 weeks straight, Cyanide, the Judas Kiss... UGH SUCH a good album.
It's easy to say in retrospect that it isn't because it's different. I'm not saying you are lying, but I do think it is a contributing factor in why you don't like it. I mean there was, as you rightly say, a dislike for the black album when it came out. That was because it wasn't their heavy thrash sound, it was new. Dark, moody, angsty and (my fav) GROOVY. No one can say that the Black Album is a bad album. But people still disliked it. However, come today, it is definitely their most popular album - I won't say mainstream because I doubt many know Of Wolf and Man. Proving that it wasn't a bad album, just took some getting used to. Metallica grew up a little. So their sound changed.
One thing I will say about St Anger is that because Metallica were so old (well not SO old but you know) when they produced that, it was a little off putting. It didn't fit what a band of 40 year olds should make. It is definitely angst filled, and would have suited being a debut album for a new, young, up and coming band. Though, I will have to harshly disagree that it would be a bad album if any other band produced it. It's good. Just not on the level we expect from Metallica.
Haha, I know it's an unpopular opinion - surprise, surprise, I'm full of those. If 72 Seasons had been released earlier and given more time, I think it would be regarded on a similar level (maybe not the SAME). I mean, Inamorata is just reason enough. I love it. The Black Album is iconic, but there are some really good songs on 72 Seasons. The title track is epic, Screaming Suicide obviously, Crown of Barbed Wire etc. You Must Burn, Sleepwalk My Life Away, Room of Mirrors... they aren't as good imo, but the Black Album wasn't all amazing either.: Holier Than Thou, The Struggle Within, My Friend of Misery. Now, DO NOT get me wrong, these aren't bad songs in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. But they don't hit as hard as Sad But True or Don't Tread on Me.
Going off on a tangent, I would die to see Jason Newstead's Creeping Death live. He added so much to that song.
Anyway, I also see what you are saying, opinions will differ. I mean, I don't like Venom too much and they are a CLASSIC band. I will say though that Metallica still have amazing music. I take back what I said about 72 Seasons, but instead apply it to Death Magnetic. The Unforgiven 3 is the best version, All Nightmare Long was all I would play for 3 weeks straight, Cyanide, the Judas Kiss... UGH SUCH a good album.
Original post by sadfailure
Haha ok, I guess being a 17 year old does slightly change my point of view. I still wouldn't say they are bad lyrics, but they are somewhat cliche, I concur.
It's easy to say in retrospect that it isn't because it's different. I'm not saying you are lying, but I do think it is a contributing factor in why you don't like it. I mean there was, as you rightly say, a dislike for the black album when it came out. That was because it wasn't their heavy thrash sound, it was new. Dark, moody, angsty and (my fav) GROOVY. No one can say that the Black Album is a bad album. But people still disliked it. However, come today, it is definitely their most popular album - I won't say mainstream because I doubt many know Of Wolf and Man. Proving that it wasn't a bad album, just took some getting used to. Metallica grew up a little. So their sound changed.
One thing I will say about St Anger is that because Metallica were so old (well not SO old but you know) when they produced that, it was a little off putting. It didn't fit what a band of 40 year olds should make. It is definitely angst filled, and would have suited being a debut album for a new, young, up and coming band. Though, I will have to harshly disagree that it would be a bad album if any other band produced it. It's good. Just not on the level we expect from Metallica.
Haha, I know it's an unpopular opinion - surprise, surprise, I'm full of those. If 72 Seasons had been released earlier and given more time, I think it would be regarded on a similar level (maybe not the SAME). I mean, Inamorata is just reason enough. I love it. The Black Album is iconic, but there are some really good songs on 72 Seasons. The title track is epic, Screaming Suicide obviously, Crown of Barbed Wire etc. You Must Burn, Sleepwalk My Life Away, Room of Mirrors... they aren't as good imo, but the Black Album wasn't all amazing either.: Holier Than Thou, The Struggle Within, My Friend of Misery. Now, DO NOT get me wrong, these aren't bad songs in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. But they don't hit as hard as Sad But True or Don't Tread on Me.
Going off on a tangent, I would die to see Jason Newstead's Creeping Death live. He added so much to that song.
Anyway, I also see what you are saying, opinions will differ. I mean, I don't like Venom too much and they are a CLASSIC band. I will say though that Metallica still have amazing music. I take back what I said about 72 Seasons, but instead apply it to Death Magnetic. The Unforgiven 3 is the best version, All Nightmare Long was all I would play for 3 weeks straight, Cyanide, the Judas Kiss... UGH SUCH a good album.
It's easy to say in retrospect that it isn't because it's different. I'm not saying you are lying, but I do think it is a contributing factor in why you don't like it. I mean there was, as you rightly say, a dislike for the black album when it came out. That was because it wasn't their heavy thrash sound, it was new. Dark, moody, angsty and (my fav) GROOVY. No one can say that the Black Album is a bad album. But people still disliked it. However, come today, it is definitely their most popular album - I won't say mainstream because I doubt many know Of Wolf and Man. Proving that it wasn't a bad album, just took some getting used to. Metallica grew up a little. So their sound changed.
One thing I will say about St Anger is that because Metallica were so old (well not SO old but you know) when they produced that, it was a little off putting. It didn't fit what a band of 40 year olds should make. It is definitely angst filled, and would have suited being a debut album for a new, young, up and coming band. Though, I will have to harshly disagree that it would be a bad album if any other band produced it. It's good. Just not on the level we expect from Metallica.
Haha, I know it's an unpopular opinion - surprise, surprise, I'm full of those. If 72 Seasons had been released earlier and given more time, I think it would be regarded on a similar level (maybe not the SAME). I mean, Inamorata is just reason enough. I love it. The Black Album is iconic, but there are some really good songs on 72 Seasons. The title track is epic, Screaming Suicide obviously, Crown of Barbed Wire etc. You Must Burn, Sleepwalk My Life Away, Room of Mirrors... they aren't as good imo, but the Black Album wasn't all amazing either.: Holier Than Thou, The Struggle Within, My Friend of Misery. Now, DO NOT get me wrong, these aren't bad songs in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. But they don't hit as hard as Sad But True or Don't Tread on Me.
Going off on a tangent, I would die to see Jason Newstead's Creeping Death live. He added so much to that song.
Anyway, I also see what you are saying, opinions will differ. I mean, I don't like Venom too much and they are a CLASSIC band. I will say though that Metallica still have amazing music. I take back what I said about 72 Seasons, but instead apply it to Death Magnetic. The Unforgiven 3 is the best version, All Nightmare Long was all I would play for 3 weeks straight, Cyanide, the Judas Kiss... UGH SUCH a good album.
Yeah we won't agree on St Anger. I take the points you're making, I just don't see it. For me it was old men making teen music and there was enough poor measures of that around at the time.
For what it's worth I think All Nightmare long is the best track they've released since the covers record in 98 (that entire album is gold). The best vocal hook in 30 years of releases. The Blacklist covers thing is great, too, but it's not actually them so I guess it doesn't really count
I don't mean to condescend to you about age, either. I realised that could sound quite *****y and I didn't mean it to. What keeps me involved with music is largely trying to chase that feeling I had when I was 14 of hearing new stuff for the first time. You never quite recapture it, but you sometimes get close. I still love now most the stuff i loved then and I am gonna be DJing an event later where 300 40+ year olds are gonna go wild to Bodies by Drowning Pool so I really do get it! But I like it for what it was then rather than what it is now, which for much of that era, is crap that has aged a little badly
I'm quite comfortable with that really.He says, with a Bathory record playing in the background
(edited 3 months ago)
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