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Reply 1
The wars in Irak and Afghanistan were certainly not a useful way to spend money.
Original post by Josb
The wars in Irak and Afghanistan were certainly not a useful way to spend money.


Where does the money go though? :hmmmm:

it doesn't just disapear.
Reply 3
Original post by Josb
The wars in Irak and Afghanistan were certainly not a useful way to spend money.


They were a very useful way to spend money. We killed thousands of terrorists.
They overspent 02-08.
They used the tory budget till 01 and eradicated the deficit.
They also inherited a good economy from Major.
Should have ran a surplus between 02 and 08 as we were in a boom.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Where does the money go though? :hmmmm:

it doesn't just disapear.
Buying equipment, food, maintaining supply lines etc.
Reply 6
Original post by fleky6910
They overspent 02-08.
They used the tory budget till 01 and eradicated the deficit.
They also inherited a good economy from Major.
Should have ran a surplus between 02 and 08 as we were in a boom.


I agree that they should have saved when times were good and then imposed deficit spending when the crash hit, as Keynes prescribed.
Reply 7
Original post by Carlylean
They were a very useful way to spend money. We killed thousands of terrorists.


They're millions in these areas.
Reply 8
Original post by Josb
They're millions in these areas.


I don't care how many there are. It's worth every penny to kill every single one.
Original post by Carlylean
I agree that they should have saved when times were good and then imposed deficit spending when the crash hit, as Keynes prescribed.


02-08 should have been a surplus.
They inherited an amazing economy from Major and due to continuing with the tory budget eliminated the deficit. When they abandoned it they ran a deficit in good times.
I am not a keynesian so I disagree however the banks had to be bailed out and deficit spending was inevitable.
Original post by Count Bezukhov
Buying equipment, food, maintaining supply lines etc.


The money still goes somewhere. Are you saying if no one bought anything everything would be fine?
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
The money still goes somewhere. Are you saying if no one bought anything everything would be fine?
The point being it could have been spent on something else, or saved as surplus.

Edit: Or, if all the money is borrowed, it simply would not need to have been borrowed (and paid back).
(edited 7 years ago)
Labour overspend for their second and third term, that's a fact.

They also pissed money up the wall on pfi infrastructure to look good even though the numbers were terrible.

It's not really the biggest of deals though it's just bad government.

The big deal was the lack of regulation of the banks which made our debts so big when the crisis hit.

It's not something you can beat them with though as the conservatives wanted looser regulations too


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Reply 13
Original post by paul514
Labour overspend for their second and third term, that's a fact.

They also pissed money up the wall on pfi infrastructure to look good even though the numbers were terrible.

It's not really the biggest of deals though it's just bad government.

The big deal was the lack of regulation of the banks which made our debts so big when the crisis hit.

It's not something you can beat them with though as the conservatives wanted looser regulations too


Posted from TSR Mobile


They definitely did waste money on stuff like this:


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn
Reply 14
Original post by fleky6910
They overspent 02-08.
They used the tory budget till 01 and eradicated the deficit.
They also inherited a good economy from Major.
Should have ran a surplus between 02 and 08 as we were in a boom.


I'm glad the money found its way into healthcare, security, education and infrastructure. A lot of the money spent during the Labour years has contributed greatly to services we benefit from today.

Also stop saying this thing about following the conservative budget, it only happened in the first 2 years of 1997-1999. The biggest surpluses occurred in 2000 and 2001 after labour abounded the conservative budget. Also in good times, people either want the government to increase spending or cut taxes, people voted labour for better public services which meant more spending during these good times and not tax cuts to those who dont need it as the conservatives wanted.

Still a fan of "the will of the people"? It's what they voted for, massively. 2008 was unexpected, I think Brown overspent during this period hoping that by throwing money into the economy it'd fix itself, my question is why have the conservatives broken their budget promises on many occasions yet think its okay to still criticise labour for sticking to its planned spending from 1997-2007?

Labour might've spent a lot but it achieved a lot, the conservatives have been spending a lot and reversing achievements. I know which one i'd rather have
Original post by Josb
The wars in Irak and Afghanistan were certainly not a useful way to spend money.


Worth pointing out the wars were endorsed by the Tories
Original post by paul514
Labour overspend for their second and third term, that's a fact.

They also pissed money up the wall on pfi infrastructure to look good even though the numbers were terrible.

It's not really the biggest of deals though it's just bad government.

The big deal was the lack of regulation of the banks which made our debts so big when the crisis hit.

It's not something you can beat them with though as the conservatives wanted looser regulations too

Posted from TSR Mobile


Don't know how economically right wing you are but do you not think that if there had been no regulation in banking that big banks would not have been as reckless as they were as they knew they would be bailed out?

I
Original post by zayn008
I'm glad the money found its way into healthcare, security, education and infrastructure. A lot of the money spent during the Labour years has contributed greatly to services we benefit from today.


leftist waffle and away from the facts.

Original post by zayn008

Also stop saying this thing about following the conservative budget, it only happened in the first 2 years of 1997-1999. The biggest surpluses occurred in 2000 and 2001 after labour abounded the conservative budget. Also in good times, people either want the government to increase spending or cut taxes, people voted labour for better public services which meant more spending during these good times and not tax cuts to those who dont need it as the conservatives wanted.


They used the tory spending plans, they abandoned in 01 and ran a deficit the year after. Governments should run surpluses in good times and labour inherited an amazing economy from Major and Clarke and they would have ran surpluses until 08. Blair had some good parts to him, i.e finished the neoliberalism movement and privileged some things coninuing the Thatcher-Major era.
There shouldn't been tax cuts or increased spending , we should have just kept a surplus which was easy to maintain.

Original post by zayn008


Labour might've spent a lot but it achieved a lot, the conservatives have been spending a lot and reversing achievements. I know which one i'd rather have


The deficit was left high by labour we are reducing it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Davij038
Don't know how economically right wing you are but do you not think that if there had been no regulation in banking that big banks would not have been as reckless as they were as they knew they would be bailed out?

I


Not a chance. Banks didn't really care because they were making obscene amounts. Despite Howie Huber bankrupting Morgan Stanley he received a $12 million bonus. The traders at Goldman Sachs similarly made huge sums, despite them having to be bailed out by the taxpayer.

Even if there was no bailout, it wouldn't be the banks that would be punished, it would be the people who lost all their savings and pensions.
Also banks felt they were simply passing the risk on to someone else.


Therein lies the problem. When banks do well, they by and large get all the benefits, when they do badly the taxpayer has to bail them out.

It's a classic example of capitalising the profits and socialising the losses. The problem is that many on the political right who claim to support free markets don't actually support free markets, they support corporatism.

It stinks.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Bornblue
Therein lies the problem. When banks do well, they by and large get all the benefits, when they do badly the taxpayer has to bail them out.

It's a classic example of capitalising the profits and socialising the losses. The problem is that many on the political right who claim to support free markets don't actually support free markets, they support corporatism.

It stinks.


It does but it's not quite that simple.

For instance although highly unpopular the bailouts did actually lead to a better outcome for tax payers * than letting them suffer their deserved fate. In some cases then this is a ethical argument rather than a strictly economic/ political one.


I should add government intervention does occasionally work although whether it always works, is likely to work and the practical and moral implications for this are also worth discussing.



* I remember reading a about this somewhere in a few studies, @Rakas21 I think I remember you agreeing with me!? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

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