The Student Room Group

PrEP?

I'm thinking of getting on it, though of a generic drug, not the official one, since the generic drugs are much cheaper.

I've read a lot of good things about it, so I'm just wondering if there are some actual concerns regarding it?
Where are you and why do you think it will be useful?
Original post by unprinted
Where are you and why do you think it will be useful?


Not in the UK. The national healthcare system hasn't covered any PrEP drugs, if that's why you're asking. There were reports that a city nearby was going to offer it, and if they do in the future, I'd definitely go for it since it'd free.

Because it outperforms condoms in terms of HIV prevention (99% versus 70-95%), or so I'm told.

Whilst with strangers, I'd still be using a condom; I may not want to if I'm in a committed relationship. But most HIV transmissions have been from a primary partner so that's obvious very risky without any protection.

And it's also a why not if the generic drugs are the same as the original one - they're so incredibly cheap, as long as the side effects are not too bad I definitely don't mind taking it just for extra protection.
(edited 6 years ago)
Are you somewhere where the HIV prevalence is high enough amongst the groups that you want to be sexual enough to be worth it?

I'm male, bisexual and in the UK. If I was sexual with a random man, there's a somewhere between 5ish% and 12ish% chance of them having HIV (higher in the larger cities, lower in rural areas). But a) if they do, it's quite likely that they're being treated for it and have an undetectable viral load = no HIV risk to me, and b) my favourite sexual act is oral, so the risk is miniscule anyway.

That means even though I might be able to get it for free - the availability of that currently depends on where you are in the UK - I'm not looking to take it.

If I were having anal with random men, especially if that were sometimes without using a condom, I may well think differently. (Or I might say 'I'll use condoms and have PEP - i.e. post exposure prophylaxis - if there's a condom failure'.) I might also think differently if I were somewhere where the infection rates were higher and the treatment rates lower.
Original post by unprinted
Are you somewhere where the HIV prevalence is high enough amongst the groups that you want to be sexual enough to be worth it?

I'm male, bisexual and in the UK. If I was sexual with a random man, there's a somewhere between 5ish% and 12ish% chance of them having HIV (higher in the larger cities, lower in rural areas). But a) if they do, it's quite likely that they're being treated for it and have an undetectable viral load = no HIV risk to me, and b) my favourite sexual act is oral, so the risk is miniscule anyway.

That means even though I might be able to get it for free - the availability of that currently depends on where you are in the UK - I'm not looking to take it.

If I were having anal with random men, especially if that were sometimes without using a condom, I may well think differently. (Or I might say 'I'll use condoms and have PEP - i.e. post exposure prophylaxis - if there's a condom failure'.) I might also think differently if I were somewhere where the infection rates were higher and the treatment rates lower.


I think so. The metropolitan area I'm in has an MSM prevalence rate of 16-20%, very disproportionate to the entire country.

It'd be mostly for a stable partner barebacking. I'd use a condom with strangers and I think that's good enough protection. Most HIV transmissions have been between primary partners so condomless sex without PrEP isn't safe with a stable partner.

I don't like PEPSE - I had it once and it's terrible. While PrEP also has side effects, they don't seem to be as severe as the PEPSE ones and it appears that the body can adjust to it. With PEPSE, there's not enough time for adjustment. Also, it doesn't meet my purpose as with PEPSE I should use a condom 100% of the time. Not to mention the effectiveness is lower than PrEP's.

My question is not whether I'm at risk. I have decided that the risk would be high enough and while I don't think buying the only approved out of my own pocket is worthwhile, I have no problem buying the generic ones, IF they work exactly the same.

If I start taking it and even after a month still find the side effect unbearable, I'll reconsider it, but I can't tell now.

I'm hoping to see if there's any criticisms to PrEP here as I've only been reading materials from advocates.
Everyone has their own place on the risk and reward continuum, and you've found yours. Great.

The criticisms include the cost, the 'well I don't need to use condoms' aspect, and that for many people it'd be unnecessary. It sounds to me like you can afford the (generic) cost - and with a reliable supply, one cheap batch of the drugs should be the same as an expensive batch - and will continue to use condoms for the casual partners, and that you're in a position where it could be.

How much do you trust your regular partner(s) to tell you if they do something outside your agreed boundaries for sex with other people?
Original post by unprinted
Everyone has their own place on the risk and reward continuum, and you've found yours. Great.

The criticisms include the cost, the 'well I don't need to use condoms' aspect, and that for many people it'd be unnecessary. It sounds to me like you can afford the (generic) cost - and with a reliable supply, one cheap batch of the drugs should be the same as an expensive batch - and will continue to use condoms for the casual partners, and that you're in a position where it could be.

How much do you trust your regular partner(s) to tell you if they do something outside your agreed boundaries for sex with other people?


It's actually really cheap. Dynamix National has a three-month buddy pack at USD$180 only - so that's $360 per year. It's like nothing, especially compared to the £5004 I'd need to spend here buying the original one (I imagine they overpriced it further due to the fact that the patent hasn't expired in the country and no generic drugs could be sold or purchased from here. I'd be going to the UK to buy the generic drugs). And as I've mentioned the city nearby the government said they'd introduce that for high-risk groups, which I assume I'm a part of as a sexually active MSM. And of course I'm not just going to be asking about it here - I plan to go to a GUM Clinic when I go back to the UK and ask for their advice etc. And I plan on doing the kidney tests before taking it.

Well, if PrEP is more effective than condoms as people claimed that to be the case, it'd be safer to be on PrEP without condom then having a condom without PrEP.

I don't have a partner right now so we're talking about the hypothetical, it's not even a given that my future partner would want to have condomless sex. I do imagine I could trust that person to a great extent. I won't "forbid" that person from having sex with other people, only that I'd prefer he doesn't, and that if it's an open relationship, I wouldn't have condomless sex, and if it's unexpected etc I'd expect to hear about it. If I don't make a big deal out of my partner sleeping around, I should be able to trust that he won't lie.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Little Toy Gun
Well, if PrEP is more effective than condoms as people claimed that to be the case, it'd be safer to be on PrEP without condom then having a condom without PrEP.


PrEP does not protect against infections that are much more common (e.g. chlamydia and gonorrhoea) or potentially more dangerous (e.g. hep B and C) than HIV.

The focus in sexual health is on HIV but that disease really is only one part of a much bigger picture.

As a side note, I wonder how long it will take before we see HIV develop resistance to Truvada as more people are taking it on an ad hoc (i.e. long-term but inconsistent) basis.
Original post by MonteCristo
PrEP does not protect against infections that are much more common (e.g. chlamydia and gonorrhoea) or potentially more dangerous (e.g. hep B and C) than HIV.

The focus in sexual health is on HIV but that disease really is only one part of a much bigger picture.

As a side note, I wonder how long it will take before we see HIV develop resistance to Truvada as more people are taking it on an ad hoc (i.e. long-term but inconsistent) basis.


I know. But they're also transmittable via oral sex and some of the very infectious anyway. I'm vaccinated against HPV and Hep A/B.

From what I read, the only concerning way HIV develops resistance towards the strains Truvada targets is if people start taking it after they've gone positive. Apparently, inconsistent intake of it doesn't really lead to that, perhaps due to its high effectiveness even after a week of not taking it.
This is where, as I say, everyone has their own level of acceptable risk.

For myself - and other people can and do vary - I'm happy with the risks of 'oral without'. I really dislike using condoms for oral, the bacterial stuff is curable, and I have had the Hep B vaccine. (Hep C is more around blood, so not applicable for the sorts of sex I have.) I'd rather have someone's semen in my mouth than in my bum, even when using condoms because of the chance of breaking etc and the need to get PEP if it did.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
I know. But they're also transmittable via oral sex and some of the very infectious anyway. I'm vaccinated against HPV and Hep A/B.


I suspect they are much less transmissible by oral sex. If you think someone might have HIV then having unprotected sex with them doesn't make much sense as they're much more likely to have chlamydia, gonorrhoea, etc.

Truvada might be more effective in preventing HIV but, overall, condoms are surely safer. Perhaps an even better strategy would be a mutual trip to the GUM clinic for testing before unprotected sex? This might not be a romantic gesture but then neither is taking an HIV drug before you get started...

I agree with @unprinted that "safest" isn't necessarily "best" - it is a matter of balancing risks with preferences.

Original post by Little Toy Gun
From what I read, the only concerning way HIV develops resistance towards the strains Truvada targets is if people start taking it after they've gone positive. Apparently, inconsistent intake of it doesn't really lead to that, perhaps due to its high effectiveness even after a week of not taking it.


Interesting RE Truvada resistance but we'll probably only know when its use is widespread. Penicillin is extremely effective but I wouldn't rate its chances if we all started taking a small daily dose to prevent infections...
Original post by MonteCristo
Truvada might be more effective in preventing HIV but, overall, condoms are surely safer. Perhaps an even better strategy would be a mutual trip to the GUM clinic for testing before unprotected sex? This might not be a romantic gesture but then neither is taking an HIV drug before you get started...


I'd do both. But just because my partner isn't with any STDs in the beginning of our relationship, doesn't mean he will get nothing afterwards.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
I'd do both. But just because my partner isn't with any STDs in the beginning of our relationship, doesn't mean he will get nothing afterwards.


I guess that's true but with that level of cynicism perhaps it should be GUM check + condoms + PrEP!
Original post by MonteCristo
I guess that's true but with that level of cynicism perhaps it should be GUM check + condoms + PrEP!


The fact is most HIV transmissions have been from primary partners.

Not when I want to have condomless sex.
Original post by MonteCristo
PrEP does not protect against infections that are much more common (e.g. chlamydia and gonorrhoea) or potentially more dangerous (e.g. hep B and C) than HIV.

The focus in sexual health is on HIV but that disease really is only one part of a much bigger picture.

As a side note, I wonder how long it will take before we see HIV develop resistance to Truvada as more people are taking it on an ad hoc (i.e. long-term but inconsistent) basis.


This many times!

Multi-drug resistant gonorrhoea is becoming an issue, can be passed on from oral (both ways - throat or penile) & have quite unpleasant symptoms.

Syphilis is also having a resurgence in the UK areas with high MSM and anecdotally particularly among HIV positive/Prep using communities. Luckily syphilis seems inherently less likely to develop antibiotic resistance but requires treatment or can have very severe systemic complications.

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