Trade deals with the rest of the world

Give me an example of a trade deal that would be bad for the UK?

Give me an example of a trade deal that would be bad for the UK?

One that leads to job losses in the UK, because it opens up our markets to cheap products from abroad and prevents us using trade measures to defend British jobs.

One that surrenders sovereignty of British Parliament by signing us up to rules that the public didn't agree to, but allows foreign investors the right to sue any future British government if it tries to make different laws.

One that puts a supranational court above the British courts.

Are you one of these liberals who thinks free trade is always good or do you realise the legitimate concerns that Donald Trump and many people in the rust belt had over the trade deals that the US have signed in recent years, and Trump wants to get America out of.

Any new trade deals should be on the premise "Britain First" and that includes with the USA.

One that surrenders sovereignty of British Parliament by signing us up to rules that the public didn't agree to, but allows foreign investors the right to sue any future British government if it tries to make different laws.

But that is what a trade deal is. It is a set of laws that govern the movement of some saleable item or concept that is governed by a set of rules agreed by both parties. In other words, some of the rules will be proposed by the other country. This is why we continue to see British citizens extradited to the US to face their justice system even if they have committed crimes against UK banks. The US would say that since the internet traffic form the offender passed through their jurisdiction, they have the right to assert their laws. If we have a deal with the US, it is quite conceivable that UK companies that flout the laws surrounding the trade deal are summoned to US courts to face the music. And US courts are not have as good as the EU Courts.

The idea that we can live in a bubble of British Sovereignty in the international world we do is a farce. Such a concept just makes no sense and is unachievable.

Interesting that you start with one that reduces the cost of living, do you agree with the statement "nothing should be imported"?

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We/EU don't have a trade deal with the US?

No. But if we do, you can guarantee that we will become more exposed to US jurisdiction, just as we currently are under EU jurisdiction.

Only if we sign up to such a deal.

Just as we signed up to EU jurisdiction.

What other kind of deal is there? The law governs trade. If a UK country sold counterfeit goods into the US under a trade deal, how would they be prosecuted? I can guarantee the US wouldn't leave it to the UK law courts.

Interesting that you start with one that reduces the cost of living, do you agree with the statement "nothing should be imported"?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Running a trade deficit worsens living standards.

Interesting that you start with one that reduces the cost of living, do you agree with the statement "nothing should be imported"?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Lots of countries would want a trade deal but on their terms, and to conclude one that actually benefits the UK is more difficult, especially when you try to balance off the different groups within the UK that will have concerns about trade deals.

Donald Trump does not like most of the trade deals the US is involved in, he wants a more protectionist approach that will increase the US ability to export to other markets but not open up the US to other countries. So a trade deal between the US and UK would likely be offered very much on their terms.

The US will likely push hard for three things, which will all be controversial in the UK:

1. The UK would have to significantly lower its food standards, so that the US can export the food that is currently not allowed to come in under EU rules because it's genetically modified or has used chlorine to wash the meat or because of the generally much lower animal welfare standards. The UK farming sector will massively oppose this as they will say they will be exposed to being undercut by cheap low-quality food coming in from the US and they won't be able to compete unless they quickly adopt the large scale, low cost, low animal-welfare processing techniques that the Americans do. It will also be opposed by environmentalists and animal welfare groups as well as people campaigning for public health and food standards protections.

2. The UK would need to open up its public sector procurement rules including the NHS to competition from US providers. US firms would want the right to legally bid for the right to deliver health contracts and prohibit the UK from having rules keeping it in government control. US firms would quickly establish a foothold in providing private healthcare in the UK but this would undermine the NHS and will be unpopular with the public especially if it drives us towards full privatisation.

3. The US will insist on an Investor-State-Dispute-Settlement mechanism where businesses have the right of appeal to a supranational court if their profits could be harmed by regulations the UK government brings in. This could be quite significant if there's a campaign to bring in a regulation on public health or environmental grounds, eg if US firms were selling something which was found to be causing harm and we raised our standards to prohibit it, the firms could then sue the UK taxpayer for compensation of loss of profits. Now Brexit was supposed to be about reasserting democratic control and not being subject to the European Court of Justice, but standard trade deals these days, especially ones that come from the US, involve these sort of ISDS arrangements with a supranational court to decide. The problem when the US is drafting the trade deals is the terms are written very much in favour of the large multinationals and against the rights of a democratically elected government to have freedom over its own laws. The usual format is - "you have the freedom to bring in your laws, but if they lead to a loss of profits for our firms, your taxpayer has to pay the difference in compensation".

These issues make a UK-US trade deal difficult to complete. What may happen, if the Conservatives hold on for long enough, is the Conservative government rushing through a trade deal with the US on their terms, even if it is all stacked in the US favour, because they generally like the idea of locking in low standards and deregulation, or privatisation, in an external trade arrangement so it blocks any future democratically elected Labour government from being able to increase standards or reverse NHS privatisation.

But this kind of thing is not taking back control and strengthening British democracy and we shouldn't be naive that that was the plan with Brexit.

I don't think people really understand what is at stake when we leave the EU customs union. A lot of people see this lovely idea of a UK company making something for sale and selling it abroad, be that the EU or US or wherever. The reality is that the days of factories having inputs of iron ore and outputting steel girders are long gone. British manufacturers import components from all over the world, assemble and then export. As a result, many businesses like Airbus for example are spread throughout Europe. After we leave the EU, every item that is imported from the EU will be subject to customs and potentially a tariff. No amount of deals with the US are going to make up for that. For the companies that have that sort of business model - they are going to be screwed. The only solution will be for them to move their production soley to Europe.

Or increase efficiency. Companies can be remarkably creative when they need to be.

Give me an example of a trade deal that would be bad for the UK?

One that leads to job losses in the UK, because it opens up our markets to cheap products from abroad and prevents us using trade measures to defend British jobs..

Running a trade deficit worsens living standards.