Today&#x27;s indicative votes

Original post by MrDystopia

So out of everything that hasn't secured a majority, a People's Vote secured 'the most losing votes'. Moreso than May's deal which is still being touted as 'the only way forward'.

You couldn't make this up. At least the divided nature of our MPs reflects that of the public.

The Wilson amendment was to accept a deal and then put it to referendum.

At 268 though it will be beaten in MV3 which means the deal will go through on MV4 in all likelyhood.

Reply 42

ChaoticButterfly

Only 14 more votes needed for a deal or revoke article 50 referendum. That seems doable.

Reply 43

Rakas21

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Only 14 more votes needed for a deal or revoke article 50 referendum. That seems doable.

MV3 will beat that on Friday. Plus these votes are non binding motions.

Reply 44

username1148663

Original post by MrDystopia

The division also reflects how we should move forward. The public is just as divided on such a subject as MPs are.

The same story says at the bottom the public don’t want a second referendum with remain as an option.

Reply 45

NJA

Some people said the British Parliament has become a laughing stock, well the European politicians weren't laughing tonight - reporters said the mood in Brussells is incredibly sombre, they believe it's all leading to No Deal.

Reply 46

username4307230

11

Original post by NJA

Some people said the British Parliament has become a laughing stock, well the European politicians weren't laughing tonight - reporters said the mood in Brussells is incredibly sombre, they believe it's all leading to No Deal.

That's the thing. We've made such a monumental mess of this that Brussels doesn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Reply 47

Rakas21

Original post by SankaraInBloom

That's the thing. We've made such a monumental mess of this that Brussels doesn't know whether to laugh or cry.

In this case its more likely that Eurocrats don't really understand our parliament and thought these votes would be important. Expectation management.

It requires MV4 on Tuesday but i can see a scenario where MV3 beats 268 on Friday then one of the options gets closer on Monday and then she frames it as her deal or x and it passes at 7pm tuesday.

I still think her move for even half the ERG is enough that in MV4 only say an extra 20-30 Lab Mp's are needed and that's enough for them to fall.

The key essentially is that May's deal needs to stay ahead on Friday to be the last option remaining.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 48

Wōden

So to sum up today's events, parliament;

- Doesn't want to leave with no deal.
- Doesn't want to leave with Theresa May's deal.
- Doesn't want to leave with an alternative deal.
- Doesn't want a second referendum.
- Doesn't want to revoke article 50.

Well this makes everything so much clearer....

Reply 49

NJA

Well here's a song for the indicative votes:

https://youtu.be/RkEXGgdqMz8

Original post by SankaraInBloom

That's the thing. We've made such a monumental mess of this that Brussels doesn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Reply 50

fallen_acorns

Original post by Wōden

So to sum up today's events, parliament;

- Doesn't want to leave with no deal.
- Doesn't want to leave with Theresa May's deal.
- Doesn't want to leave with an alternative deal.
- Doesn't want a second referendum.
- Doesn't want to revoke article 50.

Well this makes everything so much clearer....

its almost like hundreds of people struggle to make decisions without proper leadership.

Reply 51

username1148663

It's almost like the remainers asked for it.

Original post by fallen_acorns

its almost like hundreds of people struggle to make decisions without proper leadership.

Reply 52

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Only 14 more votes needed for a deal or revoke article 50 referendum. That seems doable.

Several things wrong with that line of thought,

Reply 53

Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe

The keep voting on the same thing until you get the result you want that Brexit supporters are apparently opposed to.

That MPs who were vehemently against the withdrawal agreement (Rees-Mogg said it would turn the UK into a slave state) would change their stance simply because May stands down shows how much this is not about the best interests fo the country, but about internal Conservative party politics.

Not really mate, while they are looking after their party first your missing a few points.

Firstly her deal is not a deal it's an exit agreement, this is inportant to understand the deeper issue and why may resignation is appealing. What are the hardcore brexiteers in her party are scared of is a remainer (her) negotiating the actual deal in the two-year time frame that May's exit agreement creates. So by her saying she will go, that gives her party confidence that they will have control of the actual Brexit deal negotiations.

Secondly, they are not voting on the same thing, there was significant changes to the backstop between mv1 and mv2 this was to deal with the issues you highlighted. Bringing the same motion back over and over and over to get your own way is against the parliamentary ethics, which is why the speaker John Bercow has outlawed it.

You are looking for a conspiracy theory or a contradiction in brexiteers morals too hard. However to be 100% fair to remainers and be 100% open, honest and democratic May should of said, vote for my exit agreement to keep Britain stable and remove the risk of huge damage to our country on several ways in the nation interest and in return in the nation interest I will step down as PM and upon the new Conservative leader being chosen, desolve government and British people can deside via a general election who they wish to negotiate the actual deal with the EU. Thats not happened because its not what's best for the Conservative party.

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Indeed. The men of principle appear to be strawmen of principle.

It's not above is the reality of the situation.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 54

Original post by Notoriety

Well, you know I do follow your posts rather closely. Sadly missed the comment 6 hours ago.

Still there #8

Reply 55

Fullofsurprises

OP

In fact, despite all that's been said, the indicative voting did indicate that the two strongest options are:

- a customs union with the EU, which was rejected by 272 votes to 264
- a referendum to endorse any deal, which was rejected by 295 to 268 votes

So we now know that the largest view in the House is for staying in the Customs Union (and therefore at least aligning with the Single Market) and a post-deal second endorsing referendum.

Given that the Prime Minister's proposed deal is almost certain to fail again (and at the moment, it is doubtful that it can even come back yet again to the House, as the Speaker has confirmed it is not acceptable to do so) then the choice is now down to No Deal or some deal containing the above. Therefore the only sensible option is a long extension request (or cancellation of A50 pending re-negotiation) to discuss a new deal based on the indicative votes with the EU.

Given the PM's intransigence, it is looking more likely that we will leave with no deal - we will probably know this by the end of tomorrow.

Reply 56

Original post by Fullofsurprises

In fact, despite all that's been said, the indicative voting did indicate that the two strongest options are:

- a customs union with the EU, which was rejected by 272 votes to 264
- a referendum to endorse any deal, which was rejected by 295 to 268 votes

So we now know that the largest view in the House is for staying in the Customs Union (and therefore at least aligning with the Single Market) and a post-deal second endorsing referendum.

Given that the Prime Minister's proposed deal is almost certain to fail again (and at the moment, it is doubtful that it can even come back yet again to the House, as the Speaker has confirmed it is not acceptable to do so) then the choice is now down to No Deal or some deal containing the above. Therefore the only sensible option is a long extension request (or cancellation of A50 pending re-negotiation) to discuss a new deal based on the indicative votes with the EU.

Given the PM's intransigence, it is looking more likely that we will leave with no deal - we will probably know this by the end of tomorrow.

But we knew that anyway, the house is majority remain.

I'd rather remain than do that, it's absolutely pointless. Labour's alternative imaginary unicorn plan came thrid. They had might as well as well been voting on the idea of compulsory space travel for infants :rolleyes:

Reply 57

ColinDent

14

Original post by Burton Bridge

But we knew that anyway, the house is majority remain.

I'd rather remain than do that, it's absolutely pointless. Labour's alternative imaginary unicorn plan came thrid. They had might as well as well been voting on the idea of compulsory space travel for infants :rolleyes:

Yes, it's odds on that 100% of the MP's that voted for Ken Clarke's option also voted for Margaret Beckett's so still a minority.

Reply 58

nulli tertius

Original post by ColinDent

Yes, it's odds on that 100% of the MP's that voted for Ken Clarke's option also voted for Margaret Beckett's so still a minority.

That is definitely not the case. 33 Tories voted for Clarke, only 8 for Beckett. Only 2 Liberals voted on the Clarke motion (one for, one against), 11 Liberals voted for Beckett. 12 Labour MPs voted against Clarke, 27 voted against Beckett.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 59

username1148663