Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

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Napp
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Whilst im sure the intent behind this was noble this has to be one of the most stupid ideas i have seen in a while. Whilst of course consent and whatnot is paramount the idea of linking it into an app is absurd, not quite as bad as the idea of signing legal documents attesting to the 'free and wilful entry into sexual congress' but nevertheless.
I mean, who here wouldnt find the idea of quickly whipping out the phone and doing this a bit of a mood killer and, moreover, who would keep this at the front of their mind if theyre up for a bit of rumpy pumpy? (and no, i will not apologise for calling it that)

Then there are the slightly more serious objections some groups raise i nthe article, such as forcing someone to use it and thus making the entire idea completely redundant.. Either way, a rather odd waste of a programmers time but hey ho.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56438560
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mqb2766
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A (kinky) big brother really would be watching.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Napp)
Whilst im sure the intent behind this was noble this has to be one of the most stupid ideas i have seen in a while. Whilst of course consent and whatnot is paramount the idea of linking it into an app is absurd, not quite as bad as the idea of signing legal documents attesting to the 'free and wilful entry into sexual congress' but nevertheless.
I mean, who here wouldnt find the idea of quickly whipping out the phone and doing this a bit of a mood killer and, moreover, who would keep this at the front of their mind if theyre up for a bit of rumpy pumpy? (and no, i will not apologise for calling it that)

Then there are the slightly more serious objections some groups raise i nthe article, such as forcing someone to use it and thus making the entire idea completely redundant.. Either way, a rather odd waste of a programmers time but hey ho.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56438560
Your second point is the first thing that came to my mind. Surely the fact that you can force someone to use the APP, entirely renders it pointless?

Was consent given willingly or was it forced? Did they consent at first, and then remove consent after? Did they consent to some things and not to others? Are they to drunk to consent? etc.

I don't see how the APP saves any time or bother because it cant possibly be proof of consent, in any meaningful way.

The idea of a couple of young people thinking 'Lets have sex... oh wait, I forgot my phone charger and the battery has died.. oh well guess we can't do it tonight' does make me chuckle though.
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Ascend
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caravaggio2
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I thought that was Dave Chappell and Jess Phillips then ! 😲 "Ow royt babs "
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caravaggio2
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The point is anyone midgame can change their mind and withdraw consent so any pre-match agreement isn't worth the app its clicked on.
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Occitanie
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(Original post by caravaggio2)
The point is anyone midgame can change their mind and withdraw consent so any pre-match agreement isn't worth the app its clicked on.
This. Precisely.
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harrysbar
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Could kill the mood somewhat :confused:
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ThomH97
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This idea has been floating around for a while, and although it will always be terrible from a privacy standpoint, it is less terrible as an app than as a signed document (although this idea still effectively is as a signed document).

If you can get over the privacy concerns, just set your phone to live stream everything to the police. If anyone is under duress or outright unwilling then it's all on record.
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caravaggio2
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(Original post by ThomH97)
If you can get over the privacy concerns, just set your phone to live stream everything to the police. If anyone is under duress or outright unwilling then it's all on record.
Yes that'll work because there are no sex perverts in the police.😁👍
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ThomH97
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(Original post by caravaggio2)
Yes that'll work because there are no sex perverts in the police.😁👍
Well, yes, that's always going to be the problem. But if someone wants to tell the cops each time they bang someone, then perhaps they'd get an extra thrill from the exhibitionism.
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Napp
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(Original post by ThomH97)
This idea has been floating around for a while, and although it will always be terrible from a privacy standpoint, it is less terrible as an app than as a signed document (although this idea still effectively is as a signed document).

If you can get over the privacy concerns, just set your phone to live stream everything to the police. If anyone is under duress or outright unwilling then it's all on record.
Recording said acts could be problematic in their own right though.. after all, aside from there being a fair chance said people are nude in the first place, we have already seen countless times that a limited video is, well, by definition, limited. A recent case of a court session being zoomed in where it turned out the accused was in the womans house but owing to the limited utility of a little camera no one would have known if it wasnt for the sharp eyes of the prosecutor who recognized the background. The point being, what ever way people try and square this, its a silly idea of little utility.
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Starship Trooper
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I think what we clearly need is the state to issue sex licenses and to monitor all licensed sex acts - there could be s government building with a camera recording it all and police on station to monitor consent.

(Anyone who disagrees with this can easily be dismissed as people defending rape, just as we label and pathologise people who criticise other modern paradigm)

Or not. I think we should encourage the idea that people shouldn't have sex with strangers they don't know and ideally wait for marriage.
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Joleee
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this has got to be the stupidest thing i've ever heard. :rolleyes:

consent is a continuous act. it can be given or withdrawn at any time - so what happens if someone says they 'consent' at one point, then the sex starts going bad, s/he starts doing something you haven't consented to or you start feeling unsafe or whatever, what happens then? just go through with it(?) or perhaps you don't, but now you have a recording on an app that seemingly negates any evidence that you did not consent. all this app does is allow manipulative people and preditors to take advantage of others and i can't believe the NSW Police seriously thought this was a good idea.

on a side note, how sad is it as the article points out 'less than 10% of the near 15,000 sexual assault cases reported to NSW police last year resulted in police charges'. i mean i know why it happens; rape/sexual assault is notoriously hard to prove cuz it's always a he-said/she-said situation. it's just a harsh reality to digest.
Last edited by Joleee; 4 weeks ago
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Pythian
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I think I understand what this is about.

In law, the mens rea of rape is the absence of reasonable belief in the consent (alongside intent).

The problem is that consent to sex is quite often given or withheld non-verbally. That mens rea test is objective so the court look at the belief from the pov of the reasonable person. For example, if a rape victim who has been silent or acquiescent during intercourse, the law would infer a reasonable belief in the consent on the part of the defendant.

I think the app is trying to fix that problem of how the law accounts for all the other things that go into in consent (such as body language), and give some objective, verifiable and ascertainable data from that app that evening.
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Pythian
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(Original post by Joleee)
this has got to be the stupidest thing i've ever heard. :rolleyes:

consent is a continuous act. it can be given or withdrawn at any time - so what happens if someone says they 'consent' at one point, then the sex starts going bad, s/he starts doing something you haven't consented to or you start feeling unsafe or whatever, what happens then? just go through with it(?) or perhaps you don't, but now you have a recording on an app that seemingly negates any evidence that you did not consent. all this app does is allow manipulative people and preditors to take advantage of others and i can't believe the NSW Police seriously thought this was a good idea.

on a side note, how sad is it as the article points out 'less than 10% of the near 15,000 sexual assault cases reported to NSW police last year resulted in police charges'. i mean i know why it happens; rape/sexual assault is notoriously hard to prove cuz it's always a he-said/she-said situation. it's just a harsh reality to digest.
But, don't you think there's a bit of value in it? Most apps go through a beta stage where people iron out the creaks.

If the app can record a withdrawal of consent at a later point also - either directly input or "said" to the app. A bit like alexa?

What you say about rape conviction is a problem. The CPS prosecute on the basis of the likelihood of the conviction based on what the jury hear. I think this is something that might very helpful for people. Especially, as a lot of rape cases involve people who know each other to a reasonable degree.
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Joleee
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(Original post by Pythian)
But, don't you think there's a bit of value in it? Most apps go through a beta stage where people iron out the creaks.

If the app can record a withdrawal of consent at a later point also - either directly input or "said" to the app. A bit like alexa?

What you say about rape conviction is a problem. The CPS prosecute on the basis of the likelihood of the conviction based on what the jury hear. I think this is something that might very helpful for people. Especially, as a lot of rape cases involve people who know each other to a reasonable degree.
can you turn on an app by calling it? like is that a thing? cuz if you're in the middle of sex and suddenly don't consent chances are good you can't reach for your phone.

if that's the case that you can call it, ya'll going to put your phones on the bedside and monitor it? what happens if in the middle of sex, the person who is offending somehow gets rid of the phone so that it's no longer in use? what happens if a person shouts 'i don't consent!' but it's actually not legally rape because there was a reasonable belief that that person did, indeed, consent? personally can't see how an app would be a solution for anyone. if you want to eliminate rape, we can have a surveillance camera/microphones on households or teach men/women not to assault each other. otherwise good luck.
Last edited by Joleee; 4 weeks ago
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Pythian
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(Original post by Joleee)
can you turn on an app by calling it? like is that a thing? cuz if you're in the middle of sex and suddenly don't consent chances are good you can't reach for your phone.

if that's the case that you can call it, ya'll going to put your phones on the bedside and monitor it? what happens if in the middle of sex, the person who is offending somehow gets rid of the phone so that it's no longer in use? what happens if a person shouts 'i don't consent!' but it's actually not legally rape because there was a reasonable belief that that person did, indeed, consent? personally can't see how an app would be a solution for anyone. if you want to eliminate rape, we can have a surveillance camera/microphones on households or teach men/women not to assault each other. otherwise good luck.
Hi there. Thanks for replying.

I totally accept that. Having such an app probably generates more problems than it solves. Its a shame. Would be great if we had apps that can help people when they most need it.
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