Time to bring Blair back?
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Original post by JOSH4598
The thing is, the Labour Party won't win while still being woke. That's the biggest issue traditional Labour voters have. When the party jumps on the BLM bandwagon and puts the spotlight on racial injustice, but fails to offer a coherant stance on Brexit (calling Leave voters, many of whom are Labour, misinformed or stupid not in so many words), people lose confidence in them.
If you're trying to convince working class voters to back Labour, pledges on racial injustice will never cut it. They need MPs who support British history and are willing to fly the flag, not those who want to call that very flag racist or oppressive.
If you're trying to convince working class voters to back Labour, pledges on racial injustice will never cut it. They need MPs who support British history and are willing to fly the flag, not those who want to call that very flag racist or oppressive.
Just to add to that, for traditional Labour voters it must be a very hard tonic to watch Labour and left wing politicians and celebrities react so vehemently to BLM but seemingly not give a **** about the child grooming scandals in areas like Bradford.
Original post by londonmyst
Oh yesss.... 
If he's coming back he will have to agree to a hair cut though
Original post by Trinculo
Plus - New Labour - the foundation blocks of the metropolitan ultra-liberal identity politics. Without Blair, there would be no woke, no identity politics dominating the Labour Party now, and most importantly no deep-rooted lust for the EU. The people that never grew out of student politics, but did get good jobs found a home in Blair's Labour - and now they're here to stay.
People in England, outside of London, Liverpool and a few urban areas have no truck with any of that. They expressed their dissatisfaction with the party over the years and got called names and told they were stupid, uneducated and racist. They got told by people like Ash Sarkar and Owen Jones to f- off and join the Tories. They got told by people like Andrew Adonis that everything they wanted was wrong. So they left and the result is what you have in the May 2021 local elections.
If Blair were to come back, I think he could possibly finish Labour off for good.
People in England, outside of London, Liverpool and a few urban areas have no truck with any of that. They expressed their dissatisfaction with the party over the years and got called names and told they were stupid, uneducated and racist. They got told by people like Ash Sarkar and Owen Jones to f- off and join the Tories. They got told by people like Andrew Adonis that everything they wanted was wrong. So they left and the result is what you have in the May 2021 local elections.
If Blair were to come back, I think he could possibly finish Labour off for good.
Cant agree with that as American colleges and the left winger politicians with their hands on the levers are awash with woke-ism and identity politics, as in Canada and Australia and Blair had nothing to do with them. It is rife amongst the left in any English speaking western country.
Your last sentence is spot though.
Original post by Trinculo
And you have traded that for people losing their jobs and livelihoods for believing that men cannot be women.
People are vilified more than ever before - but now on the basis of entirely subjective notions. If you say someone is a racist - they are. If you say something is hateful, it is. This is the product of Blairism.
People are vilified more than ever before - but now on the basis of entirely subjective notions. If you say someone is a racist - they are. If you say something is hateful, it is. This is the product of Blairism.
Eh? Could ypu please introduce me to the swaith of people who lost their jobs for being transphobic?
The problem is that ypu will never know or experience discrimibation. Yet you judge harshly those who do.
Just be nice!
Original post by hotpud
Eh? Could ypu please introduce me to the swaith of people who lost their jobs for being transphobic?
The problem is that ypu will never know or experience discrimibation. Yet you judge harshly those who do.
Just be nice!
The problem is that ypu will never know or experience discrimibation. Yet you judge harshly those who do.
Just be nice!
A college chaplain just dismissed this week for daring to suggest that students are fine to disagree with LGBT. Leftwaffe strikes again!
Original post by imlikeahermit
A college chaplain just dismissed this week for daring to suggest that students are fine to disagree with LGBT. Leftwaffe strikes again!
Absolutely. Because if you disagree with LGBT, you reject them. And in an inclusive society where everyone has equal rights, this sort of thing doesn't work.
It would be like disagreeing with people who have brown hair e.g. people with brown hair are not allowed to participate or be part of society. I can't see anyone calling that Leftwaffe. But because we have a culture where in the past it was deemed acceptable to demonise someone based on their sexual orientation, people like you feel offended when you are called out for doing it and rightly so. You need to ask yourself the question - are you the victim because you are being prevented from vilifying and discriminating, or are those vilified and discriminated against the victims?
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by hotpud
Absolutely. Because if you disagree with LGBT, you reject them. And in an inclusive society where everyone has equal rights, this sort of thing doesn't work.
It would be like disagreeing with people who have brown hair e.g. people with brown hair are not allowed to participate or be part of society. I can't see anyone calling that Leftwaffe. I think the last person in history who held such beliefs was Hitler was he not? If you aren't blue eyed and blonde haired, you are inferior. Hardly a lefty snowflake idealism.
It would be like disagreeing with people who have brown hair e.g. people with brown hair are not allowed to participate or be part of society. I can't see anyone calling that Leftwaffe. I think the last person in history who held such beliefs was Hitler was he not? If you aren't blue eyed and blonde haired, you are inferior. Hardly a lefty snowflake idealism.
So I cannot disagree with the LGBT movement?
For what it’s worth, I personally don’t care and am mostly indifferent to it. But you’re setting a dangerous precedent here. We’re not allowed to disagree?
Original post by imlikeahermit
So I cannot disagree with the LGBT movement?
For what it’s worth, I personally don’t care and am mostly indifferent to it. But you’re setting a dangerous precedent here. We’re not allowed to disagree?
For what it’s worth, I personally don’t care and am mostly indifferent to it. But you’re setting a dangerous precedent here. We’re not allowed to disagree?
What is there to disagree with? If you are gay you are gay. It is a fact of life. You can't disagree with it. It is like saying I disagree that the sea starts where the land ends.
Sure you can disagree with people and their views, but I hardly see how their sexuality has anything to do with it.
And as for disagreeing with LGBT practices. What has that got to do with you? It is none of your business and doesn't affect you in the slightest so why it is a concern to you is beyond me? You just seem to want to control others.
How would you feel if people disagreed with the way you behave to the point that they would shout at you and assault you in the street for it?
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by hotpud
What is there to disagree with? If you are gay you are gay. It is a fact of life. You can't disagree with it. It is like saying I disagree that the sea starts where the land ends.
Sure you can disagree with people and their views, but I hardly see how their sexuality has anything to do with it.
And as for disagreeing with LGBT practices. What has that got to do with you? It is none of your business and doesn't affect you in the slightest so why it is a concern to you is beyond me? You just seem to want to control others.
How would you feel if people disagreed with the way you behave to the point that they would shout at you and assault you in the street for it?
Sure you can disagree with people and their views, but I hardly see how their sexuality has anything to do with it.
And as for disagreeing with LGBT practices. What has that got to do with you? It is none of your business and doesn't affect you in the slightest so why it is a concern to you is beyond me? You just seem to want to control others.
How would you feel if people disagreed with the way you behave to the point that they would shout at you and assault you in the street for it?
About 90% of your post is irony, surely. I mean, you probably don’t see it admittedly...
In the specific case I mentioned a completely innocent man was sacked because he told pupils they had the right to question the schools new LGBT policies. That is it. Should they not have that right? Yes or no please.
Original post by imlikeahermit
In the specific case I mentioned a completely innocent man was sacked because he told pupils they had the right to question the schools new LGBT policies. That is it. Should they not have that right? Yes or no please.
Why do they have the right to question LGBT policies when those policies are derived from law? I think this is the problem. We don't fight for the right to question murder laws or assault laws. We accept that it is not acceptable to hit or murder someone yet you seem to be suggesting that it is acceptable to question the idea that we can discriminate against someone because of their sexuality?
Just exactly what have you got against LGBT people? How do they impact negatively on your life?
In the organisation I work, I would expect to be sacked if I were to do as he did? Why because it is discriminatory? Like I say - how would you like to be pigeon holed because of the colour of your hair?
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by hotpud
Why do they have the right to question LGBT policies when those policies are derived from law? I think this is the problem. We don't fight for the right to question murder laws or assault laws. We accept that it is not acceptable to hit or murder someone yet you seem to be suggesting that it is acceptable to question the idea that we can discriminate against someone because of their sexuality?
Just exactly what have you got against LGBT people? How do they impact negatively on your life?
In the organisation I work, I would expect to be sacked if I were to do as he did? Why because it is discriminatory? Like I say - how would you like to be pigeon holed because of the colour of your hair?
Just exactly what have you got against LGBT people? How do they impact negatively on your life?
In the organisation I work, I would expect to be sacked if I were to do as he did? Why because it is discriminatory? Like I say - how would you like to be pigeon holed because of the colour of your hair?
So we’re not allowed a differing opinion on LGBT policies? That’s essentially what you’re saying. Glad we cleared that up.
Original post by hotpud
We don't fight for the right to question murder laws or assault laws.
That's not true though is it?
Otherwise change in the law a decade ago following the Tony Martin case wouldn't have been a thing.
Original post by hotpud
What is there to disagree with? If you are gay you are gay. It is a fact of life. You can't disagree with it. It is like saying I disagree that the sea starts where the land ends.
Sure you can disagree with people and their views, but I hardly see how their sexuality has anything to do with it.
And as for disagreeing with LGBT practices. What has that got to do with you? It is none of your business and doesn't affect you in the slightest so why it is a concern to you is beyond me? You just seem to want to control others.
How would you feel if people disagreed with the way you behave to the point that they would shout at you and assault you in the street for it?
Sure you can disagree with people and their views, but I hardly see how their sexuality has anything to do with it.
And as for disagreeing with LGBT practices. What has that got to do with you? It is none of your business and doesn't affect you in the slightest so why it is a concern to you is beyond me? You just seem to want to control others.
How would you feel if people disagreed with the way you behave to the point that they would shout at you and assault you in the street for it?
It's probably worth saying that many of us who oppose the lgbtdjdjsjsjs movement actually have no problem with LGB bar a few religious nuts, it's the T+ that is not accepted and in many cases rightfully critiqued.
Original post by harrysbar
As Peter Mandleson darkly commented to the BBC yesteday,"We have not won a general election in 16 years. We have lost the last four, with 2019 a catastrophe – the last 11 general elections read: lose, lose, lose, lose, Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose, lose."
I'm not seriousy suggesting that Blair should come back (or would want to) but is there anyone in the Labour party who could copy his broad appeal to voters? While Corbyn accused Starmer of "offering nothing to voters" he equally was proved to offer nothing to voters.
So what should the Labour party do now?
I'm not seriousy suggesting that Blair should come back (or would want to) but is there anyone in the Labour party who could copy his broad appeal to voters? While Corbyn accused Starmer of "offering nothing to voters" he equally was proved to offer nothing to voters.
So what should the Labour party do now?
I think the current Tory party already occupy a very blairite space politically; and the Tories have already started seizing the initiative on environmental policy.
I think the opposition needs to move away from the trade unions, and socialism, but to do this the party really needs to be dismantled and put back together.
In reality it really needs to split in two, I dont think it would be a 1 election turn around, almost right off the 2024 election split into two and allow the socialists to become a protest party playing their student politics and allow the centre-left to come up with a clear message and agenda.
Original post by imlikeahermit
So we’re not allowed a differing opinion on LGBT policies? That’s essentially what you’re saying. Glad we cleared that up.
What policies? Would they be the ones that give LGBT people the same rights as everyone else? You are being very vague.
Original post by Rakas21
It's probably worth saying that many of us who oppose the lgbtdjdjsjsjs movement actually have no problem with LGB bar a few religious nuts, it's the T+ that is not accepted and in many cases rightfully critiqued.
And when you say T+ specifically you are referring to men identifying as women and not the other way round right? And presumibly your main objection to it boils down to women's toilets?
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by hotpud
Absolutely. Because if you disagree with LGBT, you reject them. And in an inclusive society where everyone has equal rights, this sort of thing doesn't work.
It would be like disagreeing with people who have brown hair e.g. people with brown hair are not allowed to participate or be part of society. I can't see anyone calling that Leftwaffe. But because we have a culture where in the past it was deemed acceptable to demonise someone based on their sexual orientation, people like you feel offended when you are called out for doing it and rightly so. You need to ask yourself the question - are you the victim because you are being prevented from vilifying and discriminating, or are those vilified and discriminated against the victims?
It would be like disagreeing with people who have brown hair e.g. people with brown hair are not allowed to participate or be part of society. I can't see anyone calling that Leftwaffe. But because we have a culture where in the past it was deemed acceptable to demonise someone based on their sexual orientation, people like you feel offended when you are called out for doing it and rightly so. You need to ask yourself the question - are you the victim because you are being prevented from vilifying and discriminating, or are those vilified and discriminated against the victims?
Yet the vicar was being discriminated against because he disagreed with the LGBTQ agenda. He objected to the de- normalising of heterosexuality, not homosexuality itself. Making kids feel ashamed of being heterosexual is just as bad as shaming people for being homosexual. If the account I read was accurate teachers were told to " smash heteronormativity". The vicar was simply saying it's ok to disagree with some of the teaching around homosexuality and gender, if you're a Christian. It seems the "woke" lobby think it's ok for them to be loud, vocal and to disagree with anyone who doesn't accept their agenda, but it's not ok for other people to disagree with theirs.
Original post by Debs25
Yet the vicar was being discriminated against because he disagreed with the LGBTQ agenda. He objected to the de- normalising of heterosexuality, not homosexuality itself. Making kids feel ashamed of being heterosexual is just as bad as shaming people for being homosexual. If the account I read was accurate teachers were told to " smash heteronormativity". The vicar was simply saying it's ok to disagree with some of the teaching around homosexuality and gender, if you're a Christian. It seems the "woke" lobby think it's ok for them to be loud, vocal and to disagree with anyone who doesn't accept their agenda, but it's not ok for other people to disagree with theirs.
Equality isn't about taking away. It is about giving. If you give LGBT people the same rights as we have enjoyed for centuries, that is not the same as taking away from what we have. We still have our rights. All that has changed is that so now have LGBT people. And for a supposed man of the cloth who should be subscribing to the idea that only God judges those he creates, who on earth is this vicar to judge?
And the laws of the land are very clear. You can not discriminate against people on the basis of sexual or gender orientation and you certainly can not teach children that one way of living is superior to another. Both are against the law. He broke the law. He lost his job as a result. And thank goodness.
Just exactly what is this evil LGBT agenda we are supposed to object to so much? No one on here as yet said what it is just that it is bad.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Trinculo
It’s a global movement and Blair made it a political and cultural reality here.
So, your original post mixed up your cause and effect.
Frankly a narrow idea that such a movement in ideas has arisen just re this period seems to miss trends that one can trace way back to the 60s, possibly earlier, and in a lot of ways the UK now is a far more pleasant place than it was in the 60s because of these trends. Discriminations being reduced and ideally eliminated is surely a good thing, is it not?
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