CIFAS Marker and Opening an account
Hi,
I am a concerned parent and reaching out to get some help and guidance for my son.
There are two things that happened with my son, both happened consecutively. My son had 2 bank accounts, neither were student bank accounts, both were basic accounts with 2 major banks, we decided to avoid the debt trap of overdrafts and credit cards as it is so easy to become a modern day slave by being in debt to a bank.
One account was used as a savings and back up, and the other to run his every day expenses. And switching money as and when required between the two accounts.
1. His debit card was compromised for his savings account and £700 was spent on Amazon from his savings account. He got a message from this bank to ask him if it was him, he contacted them and confirmed it wasn't him and they refunded the money immediately. Bank sent out a replacement card and blocked his old debit card;
2. About 3 days later, his Binance account which he had only just registered a week prior and foolishly linked to his savings account, was used to withdraw the £860 that he had in his savings account. The debit card that was used, the bank had already blocked and he hadn't even received the replacement at this point. Bank and Binance state they traced the transaction back to his iPhone's IP address, however my son remains defiant that it wasn't him, leaving us to conclude his phone IP address was also compromised and had money stolen from him in this way. The bank refused to refund his money and closed his account down after freezing his account and then carrying out an investigation, this took them a handful of days;
3. Feeling vulnerable that hard earned money had been stolen from him, he was targeted and used as a mule by someone living in the same student accommodation as him. This was done on his other account which he used for running his day to day expenses. After this account got frozen, he came to me and told me what had happened. At first I was furious, but appreciating the fact that my son had come to me for help I decided to support him and calmed down, something that is my obligation, I am sure the wrath from parents is scary but moreso the disappoint caused. I remember what it was like for me when I was a teenager. If you are reading this as a victim and trying to hide it from your parents, please find a way to reach out to your parents for help and advice... The advice and support you can get will be greater than the shame you would feel, it will also teach you a lesson that no School or University can provide.
This bank wasn't giving a timeline and was very illusive with what they were doing. My son gave them all the information they asked for about the transactions in his account, visited their branches on several occasions and called them daily for an update for almost 10 days. Of the 2 transactions that they questioned, one was not the amount or the name the scammers had told him about, it was much higher. He had called the bank and voluntarily told them to reverse it as he didn't know who the person was and was thinking it was not the scammers and an error from the bank. The scammers had taken his debit card for this account withdrew the money from the account using various different ATM's across the radius of the university campus. My son was at this point 200 miles away from the university campus staying with family over the summer break. I contacted the head of the fraud team on LinkedIn and pleaded my son's case and that they unfreeze his account and give him access to the £400 that was in this account which my wife had transferred to him from her account 3 days after my son had called them to inform them to reverse the second money mule transaction that he did not recognise. This account was closed by the bank and my son was able to collect the money from the branch after the head of fraud informed her team to expedite the case;
4. We immediately applied to check for CIFAS marker and found that the second bank in point 3 had marked a CIFAS against him as "Misuse of facility" as case type and reason as "retaining the credit". The scammers had withdrawn the money and no financial gain by my son. His stupidity is he gave his bank details and card. Valuable lesson learnt.
5. Just before my son's account was closed with the second bank and whilst they were still investigating, I asked him to open an account with another bank and continue with our money management strategy, one account for savings and one account for expenses. When my son went to collect the money bank 2 agreed to transfer the money to his newly opened account with another major high street bank. About 15 days since this account was opened and a few days after the CIFAS marker applied they also closed his account citing "misuse of account against policy". My son questioned them he hadn't had misused the bank account and they stated no more than this. It was suggested he could reapply to open an account with them, he was able to go and collect the money from the branch the same day he received notification that account was being closed, there was no suspension of account or investigation. Another contact centre agent at the same bank suggested the same when I asked my son to call back and clarify if he was able to open another account with them;
6. He has now reapplied to open another account with this same bank, this will now be bank 3, but this time round they want him to make an appointment to visit the branch with ID documents and supporting documents that he is a student. Something they hadn't asked for first time round when he opened the account, everything was online;
7. The fraudster had promised my son £500 for this, which my son has not received and I have told him to refuse it IF he is offered it. The lesson learnt is more valuable. Money will come and go as will this situation.
Situation we find ourselves in now is that we need to open a bank account. Has anyone reapplied with a bank that was not affected by a money mule scam, but closed due to CIFAS marker? I have scoured the net for suitable accounts but all advise points to Credit Unions or select Online banks with prepaid cards. All of which seem complicated due to charges or requiring a monthly subscription. Has anyone opened bank account with a bricks and mortar bank or building society after a CIFAS marker was applied?
I am sorry for the lengthy post, but as a parent I really do feel for all the young people who have been sucked into the lure of money for what has been a painful experience for them. I hope in time this sort of scam is put to bed and understand during the interim only awareness of this sort of thing happening to young people can be averted. Figures I have read online show 72% of 21-30 year olds being used as money mules. And 3 in 5 University and School students being used as money mules. These are scary statistics, if you have been a victim of this type of scam please speak to a parent or a relative if you find you can't speak to your parents.
Thank you in advance for any advice you could give me to give my son strength and share some positivity with him.
I am a concerned parent and reaching out to get some help and guidance for my son.
There are two things that happened with my son, both happened consecutively. My son had 2 bank accounts, neither were student bank accounts, both were basic accounts with 2 major banks, we decided to avoid the debt trap of overdrafts and credit cards as it is so easy to become a modern day slave by being in debt to a bank.
One account was used as a savings and back up, and the other to run his every day expenses. And switching money as and when required between the two accounts.
1. His debit card was compromised for his savings account and £700 was spent on Amazon from his savings account. He got a message from this bank to ask him if it was him, he contacted them and confirmed it wasn't him and they refunded the money immediately. Bank sent out a replacement card and blocked his old debit card;
2. About 3 days later, his Binance account which he had only just registered a week prior and foolishly linked to his savings account, was used to withdraw the £860 that he had in his savings account. The debit card that was used, the bank had already blocked and he hadn't even received the replacement at this point. Bank and Binance state they traced the transaction back to his iPhone's IP address, however my son remains defiant that it wasn't him, leaving us to conclude his phone IP address was also compromised and had money stolen from him in this way. The bank refused to refund his money and closed his account down after freezing his account and then carrying out an investigation, this took them a handful of days;
3. Feeling vulnerable that hard earned money had been stolen from him, he was targeted and used as a mule by someone living in the same student accommodation as him. This was done on his other account which he used for running his day to day expenses. After this account got frozen, he came to me and told me what had happened. At first I was furious, but appreciating the fact that my son had come to me for help I decided to support him and calmed down, something that is my obligation, I am sure the wrath from parents is scary but moreso the disappoint caused. I remember what it was like for me when I was a teenager. If you are reading this as a victim and trying to hide it from your parents, please find a way to reach out to your parents for help and advice... The advice and support you can get will be greater than the shame you would feel, it will also teach you a lesson that no School or University can provide.
This bank wasn't giving a timeline and was very illusive with what they were doing. My son gave them all the information they asked for about the transactions in his account, visited their branches on several occasions and called them daily for an update for almost 10 days. Of the 2 transactions that they questioned, one was not the amount or the name the scammers had told him about, it was much higher. He had called the bank and voluntarily told them to reverse it as he didn't know who the person was and was thinking it was not the scammers and an error from the bank. The scammers had taken his debit card for this account withdrew the money from the account using various different ATM's across the radius of the university campus. My son was at this point 200 miles away from the university campus staying with family over the summer break. I contacted the head of the fraud team on LinkedIn and pleaded my son's case and that they unfreeze his account and give him access to the £400 that was in this account which my wife had transferred to him from her account 3 days after my son had called them to inform them to reverse the second money mule transaction that he did not recognise. This account was closed by the bank and my son was able to collect the money from the branch after the head of fraud informed her team to expedite the case;
4. We immediately applied to check for CIFAS marker and found that the second bank in point 3 had marked a CIFAS against him as "Misuse of facility" as case type and reason as "retaining the credit". The scammers had withdrawn the money and no financial gain by my son. His stupidity is he gave his bank details and card. Valuable lesson learnt.
5. Just before my son's account was closed with the second bank and whilst they were still investigating, I asked him to open an account with another bank and continue with our money management strategy, one account for savings and one account for expenses. When my son went to collect the money bank 2 agreed to transfer the money to his newly opened account with another major high street bank. About 15 days since this account was opened and a few days after the CIFAS marker applied they also closed his account citing "misuse of account against policy". My son questioned them he hadn't had misused the bank account and they stated no more than this. It was suggested he could reapply to open an account with them, he was able to go and collect the money from the branch the same day he received notification that account was being closed, there was no suspension of account or investigation. Another contact centre agent at the same bank suggested the same when I asked my son to call back and clarify if he was able to open another account with them;
6. He has now reapplied to open another account with this same bank, this will now be bank 3, but this time round they want him to make an appointment to visit the branch with ID documents and supporting documents that he is a student. Something they hadn't asked for first time round when he opened the account, everything was online;
7. The fraudster had promised my son £500 for this, which my son has not received and I have told him to refuse it IF he is offered it. The lesson learnt is more valuable. Money will come and go as will this situation.
Situation we find ourselves in now is that we need to open a bank account. Has anyone reapplied with a bank that was not affected by a money mule scam, but closed due to CIFAS marker? I have scoured the net for suitable accounts but all advise points to Credit Unions or select Online banks with prepaid cards. All of which seem complicated due to charges or requiring a monthly subscription. Has anyone opened bank account with a bricks and mortar bank or building society after a CIFAS marker was applied?
I am sorry for the lengthy post, but as a parent I really do feel for all the young people who have been sucked into the lure of money for what has been a painful experience for them. I hope in time this sort of scam is put to bed and understand during the interim only awareness of this sort of thing happening to young people can be averted. Figures I have read online show 72% of 21-30 year olds being used as money mules. And 3 in 5 University and School students being used as money mules. These are scary statistics, if you have been a victim of this type of scam please speak to a parent or a relative if you find you can't speak to your parents.
Thank you in advance for any advice you could give me to give my son strength and share some positivity with him.
(edited 8 months ago)
Right, something that unfortunately jumps out is part 3, where your son willingly participated in fraud as a money mule, that causes issues with giving him any benefit of the doubt that he wasn't complicit in the previous 2 transactions, or at least in touch with people he should have seen were dodgy. Without further info it would sadly be hard to believe the money just fluked it's way out his account without him facilitating access in some form.
In terms of Cifas, after a bank has decided to terminate it's relationship with you and apply a Cifas marker they pretty much won't talk to you about it, particularly about their interactions with Cifas themselves. As you're finding, they will kinda just vaguely fob you off by telling you to apply to other banks, check your credit or reapply etc. If the marker was for misuse it's 6 years, check on the Cifas site who their members are, as these are the ones who essentially won't serve you, again as you've found, they might initially open the account, but when they carry out their checks they will close it again.
In terms of Cifas, after a bank has decided to terminate it's relationship with you and apply a Cifas marker they pretty much won't talk to you about it, particularly about their interactions with Cifas themselves. As you're finding, they will kinda just vaguely fob you off by telling you to apply to other banks, check your credit or reapply etc. If the marker was for misuse it's 6 years, check on the Cifas site who their members are, as these are the ones who essentially won't serve you, again as you've found, they might initially open the account, but when they carry out their checks they will close it again.
Original post by StriderHort
Right, something that unfortunately jumps out is part 3, where your son willingly participated in fraud as a money mule, that causes issues with giving him any benefit of the doubt that he wasn't complicit in the previous 2 transactions, or at least in touch with people he should have seen were dodgy. Without further info it would sadly be hard to believe the money just fluked it's way out his account without him facilitating access in some form.
In terms of Cifas, after a bank has decided to terminate it's relationship with you and apply a Cifas marker they pretty much won't talk to you about it, particularly about their interactions with Cifas themselves. As you're finding, they will kinda just vaguely fob you off by telling you to apply to other banks, check your credit or reapply etc. If the marker was for misuse it's 6 years, check on the Cifas site who their members are, as these are the ones who essentially won't serve you, again as you've found, they might initially open the account, but when they carry out their checks they will close it again.
In terms of Cifas, after a bank has decided to terminate it's relationship with you and apply a Cifas marker they pretty much won't talk to you about it, particularly about their interactions with Cifas themselves. As you're finding, they will kinda just vaguely fob you off by telling you to apply to other banks, check your credit or reapply etc. If the marker was for misuse it's 6 years, check on the Cifas site who their members are, as these are the ones who essentially won't serve you, again as you've found, they might initially open the account, but when they carry out their checks they will close it again.
He had given his bank details out after the fraud with Amazon happened. However, Binance and the bank provided proof that 9 attempts were made to withdraw the £860 from his bank account using a debit card the bank had already blocked, the bank authorised £800 in attempt number 4 and £60 in attempt number 5, the following 5 attempts were are all declined by the bank as the card was blocked. Bank's justification was since the IP address was his phone, the bank also confirmed they didn't use the push notification via the app to confirm if it was my son making the transaction, something they usually do. He had no reason to be part of this fraud, he had plenty of money across both accounts prior to this fraud on his account. It was only after this incident that he spoke with a guy in his accommodation over a game of pool that he sucked into the money mule scam. And as far as I am concerned he "willingly neglected" his security at this point. There is no excuse for this.
The bank that have asked him to reapply are not the ones that applied the CIFAS marker. His account with them was merely open for a few days. Only money he received into was the money he got from the bank that applied the CIFAS marker, the branch transferred the money to this account for him. Then 2 days later this bank closed the account, no suspension or investigation etc. I will have a look on CIFAS website to check who their members are. I have informed my son the marker will be there for 6 years and as reminder for his actions, and that we should not even consider having it removed as it has been correctly placed.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
(edited 8 months ago)
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