Masters degree after ACA?
Hi, I didn't do as well as I could have in my A-levels, and am now in my first year doing a 2 year AAT apprenticeship with a top 25 firm. If all goes well, I will go on to do ACA afterwards. Will all this be enough to compensate for my lack of a bachelors degree in my application to a masters program?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Original post by Al_the_Pal
Hi, I didn't do as well as I could have in my A-levels, and am now in my first year doing a 2 year AAT apprenticeship with a top 25 firm. If all goes well, I will go on to do ACA afterwards. Will all this be enough to compensate for my lack of a bachelors degree in my application to a masters program?
Thanks!
Thanks!
It would depend on the specific course and university concerned. Some courses would recognise accredited prior learning i.e. the ACA qualification and your experience in accounting; but a number of degrees won't. This is where you would need to go out and do your research on the sort of degrees that you want.
On the other hand, I would be curious about the following:
•
What master's degree do you intend to take with an ACA?
•
Why do you want to do a master's? A master's degree is usually for those who want to pursue academic research. In the odd cases, you can use a master's to apply for more senior positions, but these are usually within specific roles in specific highly regulated sectors e.g. nursing, architecture, engineering. Accounting isn't one of them.
•
A person who has passed all the ACA modules is generally considered equivalent to that of a graduate with a master's degree i.e. you're qualified enough to lecture students on accounting. What do you intend to hope to get from a master's degree? You don't need a master's degree in order to progress in accounting. It's mostly experience and working in reputable firms. Where you really stretch it, you can do a CTA as a further qualification (it's the highest qualification on British tax in the country).
•
How do you intend to fund your master's? As an accounting qualification with passes in all its modules considered the equivalent of a master's degree, you would likely be subject to the ELQ policy i.e. you won't likely be able to get student finance unless your chosen degree meets one of the exceptions e.g. allied health profession.
•
If you want to do a degree in a completely different discipline, it's likely that you would need to do a bachelor's in it anyway. There are some master's degrees that would accept the equivalent of an undergrad in any subject, but the list isn't particularly long. Which subject did you wanted to do?
Original post by MindMax2000
It would depend on the specific course and university concerned. Some courses would recognise accredited prior learning i.e. the ACA qualification and your experience in accounting; but a number of degrees won't. This is where you would need to go out and do your research on the sort of degrees that you want.
On the other hand, I would be curious about the following:
On the other hand, I would be curious about the following:
•
What master's degree do you intend to take with an ACA?
•
Why do you want to do a master's? A master's degree is usually for those who want to pursue academic research. In the odd cases, you can use a master's to apply for more senior positions, but these are usually within specific roles in specific highly regulated sectors e.g. nursing, architecture, engineering. Accounting isn't one of them.
•
A person who has passed all the ACA modules is generally considered equivalent to that of a graduate with a master's degree i.e. you're qualified enough to lecture students on accounting. What do you intend to hope to get from a master's degree? You don't need a master's degree in order to progress in accounting. It's mostly experience and working in reputable firms. Where you really stretch it, you can do a CTA as a further qualification (it's the highest qualification on British tax in the country).
•
How do you intend to fund your master's? As an accounting qualification with passes in all its modules considered the equivalent of a master's degree, you would likely be subject to the ELQ policy i.e. you won't likely be able to get student finance unless your chosen degree meets one of the exceptions e.g. allied health profession.
•
If you want to do a degree in a completely different discipline, it's likely that you would need to do a bachelor's in it anyway. There are some master's degrees that would accept the equivalent of an undergrad in any subject, but the list isn't particularly long. Which subject did you wanted to do?
Hi there,
Thank you for your response, I appreciate the detail you put in to help!
- Regarding your first question, I do not currently know which qualification I intend on pursuing post-ACA, though I would imagine something relevant to accounting/management may seem appropriate. I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
- Regarding your second question, I can tell you now that I have every intention on taking up a position in academia. I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did. Since the age of 15, I had decided that I would complete a doctorate in Mathematics (or one of its applications thereof), but that doesn't feel so likely at this point.
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
- I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
- At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years (I am an Arab by heritage and it is commonplace for bachelors in Arab families to live with their parents), provided I contribute to the rent haha.
- Here's a question. Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities? If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this? It will certainly help in my path into academia, and I'd be extremely grateful for your help, and any other advice you may be willing to give.
Thanks!!
- Ali H
Original post by ajj2000
May I check:
- what were your a level results and in which subjects?
- are you entitled to U.K. funding for higher education purposes?
- would you expect to stay in England for the forseeable future in your career?
- what were your a level results and in which subjects?
- are you entitled to U.K. funding for higher education purposes?
- would you expect to stay in England for the forseeable future in your career?
I did English Lit, Mathematics, Physics and an EPQ, achieving CDDD respectively (unflatteringly far from my A*AAB predictions, but that's it, I'm afraid).
I am entitled to UK funding, having been a London resident my entire life.
I will most likely stay in England for another 10 years or so before emigrating to the Middle East, or at least until I finish my postdoc (provided I'm lucky enough to even enrol in a masters then PhD). Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of this question?
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Al_the_Pal
Hi there,
Thank you for your response, I appreciate the detail you put in to help!
- Regarding your first question, I do not currently know which qualification I intend on pursuing post-ACA, though I would imagine something relevant to accounting/management may seem appropriate. I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
- Regarding your second question, I can tell you now that I have every intention on taking up a position in academia. I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did. Since the age of 15, I had decided that I would complete a doctorate in Mathematics (or one of its applications thereof), but that doesn't feel so likely at this point.
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
- I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
- At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years (I am an Arab by heritage and it is commonplace for bachelors in Arab families to live with their parents), provided I contribute to the rent haha.
- Here's a question. Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities? If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this? It will certainly help in my path into academia, and I'd be extremely grateful for your help, and any other advice you may be willing to give.
Thanks!!
- Ali H
Thank you for your response, I appreciate the detail you put in to help!
- Regarding your first question, I do not currently know which qualification I intend on pursuing post-ACA, though I would imagine something relevant to accounting/management may seem appropriate. I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
- Regarding your second question, I can tell you now that I have every intention on taking up a position in academia. I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did. Since the age of 15, I had decided that I would complete a doctorate in Mathematics (or one of its applications thereof), but that doesn't feel so likely at this point.
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
- I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
- At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years (I am an Arab by heritage and it is commonplace for bachelors in Arab families to live with their parents), provided I contribute to the rent haha.
- Here's a question. Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities? If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this? It will certainly help in my path into academia, and I'd be extremely grateful for your help, and any other advice you may be willing to give.
Thanks!!
- Ali H
I would imagine something relevant to accounting/management may seem appropriate.
As previously mentioned, I don't see the point in you doing a master's in accounting post ACA. A master's in accounting would give you half of the exemptions towards an ACA i.e. it's like going out of your way to take a step backwards for no reason.
MScs in management and MBAs generally accept undergrads in any subjects so long you have the grades and you have a stellar personal statement. I personally don't see a point in doing them unless you want to progress into business research (if so, I would recommend the MBA over the MSc if you can afford it).
I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
•
Computer science (some degrees)
•
Anything in business (except for finance) e.g. marketing, accounting. You cannot do a business management degree if you have done it at undergrad
•
Anthropology
•
Nursing
•
Some criminology degrees
•
Nonquantiative economics degrees
•
Some film degrees
•
Hospitality
•
Some media degrees
•
Some journalism degrees
•
Education
•
Linguistics
•
Social work
•
Some politics degrees
•
Some agriculture degrees
•
Some fine art degrees
I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did.
If you want to go into mathematics, then you are going to go for a maths degree prior to doing the doctorate. I don't know any other way around this. I don't really understand why your parents would want you to take up an apprenticeship to go into a profession that you don't particularly want.
The salary expectations of a maths professor can go all the way up into the 6 figures, which is needless to say higher than an accountant's salary (albeit you will have a lot of competition and would have to spend decades working towards tenure and even then you have a slim chance of getting the high paying positions). If you ever work you way up to a partner or a financial director of a large accounting firm, you might be eligible for a six figure salary, but that's a very strong if; likewise if you want to go out on a limb and risk possible imprisonment if things go south very badly, you can consider external audits where they can pay 6 figure salaries at the Big 4.
See: https://www.emolument.com/career_advice/phd_and_doctorate_impact_salary#gsc.tab=0 (note, I don't know the specifics of where they got their data from, so I can't say what the specifics, exceptions, or disclaimers are).
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
From one maths person (more applied maths more than anything) to another, I can say this is very very unlikely. When I looked at accounting, I was greatly disappointed by how little actual maths there is and I was itching for something more complicated and involves more problem solving. I don't know how you would fare, but if you get an inkling that things aren't as satisfactory as you like them to be, I can vouch that it's not going to get any better.
If you want a mathematical job, then you would be looking at quants, actuary, or something in engineering (electrical most likely). If you want to go for the research roles, you're looking at biological mathematics, financial mathematics, mathematical economics, engineering, physics, or maths. For more stats oriented roles/research positions: economics, stats, data science/analysis. You can get something in computer science, but I would say it's more akin to data science than anything else.
Even if you decide to go back to accounting, you can do so with your maths degree since accounting isn't a subject that require specific degrees or A Levels (as you might have well found out). If you want to move onto a different field, the maths degree would probably be more flexible than the accounting qualification e.g. you can apply for grad roles in tech, something quantitative, actuary (even though you can do apprenticeships with A Level Maths), stats, bioinformatics.
I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
This would make your selection of degrees very limited and very narrow.
Personal recommendation: redo your A Levels and get the grades that you should have gotten, then reapply for uni (ideally doing further maths as well). If you do the ACA and hope to get into academia, you're going have an uphill battle.
If you want recommendations on how to resit your A Levels outside of college, let me know.
At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years
Whilst you can get standalone masters' for about £6k, some of the more expensive ones can cost £40k. Where possible, I would recommend getting an integrated master's as an undergrad degree, unless there's a specific subject/niche that you really want to do as a postgrad.
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Strictly speaking, an AAT Level 3 is the equivalent of 1 A Level. A Level 4 is the equivalent of a foundation degree/HNC, so you can move straight into a HND, then finish off with a bachelor's degree via top up. Alternatively, there are universities that offer accelerated accounting degrees with AAT. However, there is only a handful of unis that accept AAT or allow for the top up, and I don't recommend it if you can help it.
If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this?
The following explicitly state that they accept AAT:
https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/study/course-finder/ba-hons-accounting-and-finance-accelerated-2022-23#entry-requirements
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/courses/accounting-and-finance-bsc-hons-2023-24#entry_requirements
https://www.brookes.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/accounting-and-finance
There may be other universities that accept AAT for entry, but I have problems finding them. On the other hand, you might not have as much
Having said that, if you look at the ACA website, you can find the following page listing the academic qualifications you can go for with an ACA:
https://www.icaew.com/membership/support-throughout-your-career/career-progression/academic-opportunities-for-acas
Just to reiterate: I strongly recommend you redo your A Levels (ideally with Further Maths as your second A Level), then apply for a maths degree (ideally as an integrated master's) before going for the doctorate. If you want to be an accountant, then do the ACA by all means; if you want to become an academic, I would change course.
If worse comes to worse and the unis won't allow you to do resits for any random reason, then you can opt to do the maths degree via Open Uni (never ideal, but there are minimal entry requirements).
Let me know if you want me to outline the steps to retake your A Levels.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Al_the_Pal
I did English Lit, Mathematics, Physics and an EPQ, achieving CDDD respectively (unflatteringly far from my A*AAB predictions, but that's it, I'm afraid).
I am entitled to UK funding, having been a London resident my entire life.
I will most likely stay in England for another 10 years or so before emigrating to the Middle East, or at least until I finish my postdoc (provided I'm lucky enough to even enrol in a masters then PhD). Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of this question?
I am entitled to UK funding, having been a London resident my entire life.
I will most likely stay in England for another 10 years or so before emigrating to the Middle East, or at least until I finish my postdoc (provided I'm lucky enough to even enrol in a masters then PhD). Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of this question?
Wow - loads going on! Many congratulations on getting the apprenticeship. I'll try to respond to your points. There is a guy called Fehzan Mehdi who used to be active on this forum @Fehzan Mehdi I think - he tends to answer queries on his youtube channel quickly. He did and ACA apprenticeship and is very knowledgeable about routes from this - such as masters degrees.
It would be well worth checking his advice.
Anyway - onto your questions:
- can you get onto masters degrees with ACA but no undergrad - yes - there tend to be plenty of options. You might want to consider what your motivations are. You may with to take a standard masters course (Imperial MBA is pretty popular) where you do the full course as normal, or one which gives exemptions from part of the course for having ACA passes (this course through UCL might be a goood option and is certainly cheaper than most others https://www.london.ac.uk/courses/professional-accountancy).
You can check the ICAEW and ACCA websites for listings of courses with tie-ins with accountancy qualifications.
I can tell you now that I have every intention on taking up a position in academia.
Wow - thats different! Is your interest research or teaching or both?
However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
- I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
Well - you should at least do AAT for 2 years to get experience and then reconsider. Would the ACA contract be an additional 3 years? If so that seems like a long and hard commitment to a profession you don't want to continue in. On the other hand people do seem to become accountancy lecturers out of ACA (and universities seem to like recruiting people with experience in the profession). Not sure how you would research entry routes and probabilities. It may be that it is relatively easier to get university jobs in accounting than most other fields. It certainly pays less than half what someone teaching at Kaplan would earn!
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Yes - but it changes year by year. London South Bank will accept level 3 AAT for entry to the second year of their accounting degree. Liverpool St Johns used to also. Northampton had lots of routes to degrees with accounting qualifications which might be worth checking.
Birkbeck had an undergrad degree (https://www.icaew.com/-/media/corporate/files/members/career-support/academic-qualification-opportunities-for-acas.ashx) which allowed 50% exemptions for qualified accountants. I'm not sure if that still exists as I couldn't see it on their website. Well worth looking for.
In truth if you reach out to universities plenty would accept you with level 4.
I am entitled to UK funding, having been a London resident my entire life.
I will most likely stay in England for another 10 years or so before emigrating to the Middle East, or at least until I finish my postdoc (provided I'm lucky enough to even enrol in a masters then PhD). Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of this question?
A couple of things. While its fine in the UK to compete ACA without a degree and move towards academia plus a whole load of other jobs I'm nervous that this might not be the case in all other countries (regardless of whether you get a masters). Might it be relevant for visa reasons? Will universities have specific requirements you need to meet to be considered?
Secondly I'm not sure that @MindMax2000 comment above:
'How do you intend to fund your master's? As an accounting qualification with passes in all its modules considered the equivalent of a master's degree, you would likely be subject to the ELQ policy i.e. you won't likely be able to get student finance unless your chosen degree meets one of the exceptions e.g. allied health profession.'
is accurate. I might be out of date on this and the rules might change before you get there. However last time I was aware some who had completed ACA apprenticeships were looking to take unrelated undergrad degrees and were informed that they were entitled to funding. This might be very important to you (as someone entitled to UK student finance). It wouldn't be were you going to pay overseas rates.
Original post by MindMax2000
I would imagine something relevant to accounting/management may seem appropriate.
As previously mentioned, I don't see the point in you doing a master's in accounting post ACA. A master's in accounting would give you half of the exemptions towards an ACA i.e. it's like going out of your way to take a step backwards for no reason.
MScs in management and MBAs generally accept undergrads in any subjects so long you have the grades and you have a stellar personal statement. I personally don't see a point in doing them unless you want to progress into business research (if so, I would recommend the MBA over the MSc if you can afford it).
I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did.
If you want to go into mathematics, then you are going to go for a maths degree prior to doing the doctorate. I don't know any other way around this. I don't really understand why your parents would want you to take up an apprenticeship to go into a profession that you don't particularly want.
The salary expectations of a maths professor can go all the way up into the 6 figures, which is needless to say higher than an accountant's salary (albeit you will have a lot of competition and would have to spend decades working towards tenure and even then you have a slim chance of getting the high paying positions). If you ever work you way up to a partner or a financial director of a large accounting firm, you might be eligible for a six figure salary, but that's a very strong if; likewise if you want to go out on a limb and risk possible imprisonment if things go south very badly, you can consider external audits where they can pay 6 figure salaries at the Big 4.
See: https://www.emolument.com/career_advice/phd_and_doctorate_impact_salary#gsc.tab=0 (note, I don't know the specifics of where they got their data from, so I can't say what the specifics, exceptions, or disclaimers are).
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
From one maths person (more applied maths more than anything) to another, I can say this is very very unlikely. When I looked at accounting, I was greatly disappointed by how little actual maths there is and I was itching for something more complicated and involves more problem solving. I don't know how you would fare, but if you get an inkling that things aren't as satisfactory as you like them to be, I can vouch that it's not going to get any better.
If you want a mathematical job, then you would be looking at quants, actuary, or something in engineering (electrical most likely). If you want to go for the research roles, you're looking at biological mathematics, financial mathematics, mathematical economics, engineering, physics, or maths. For more stats oriented roles/research positions: economics, stats, data science/analysis. You can get something in computer science, but I would say it's more akin to data science than anything else.
Even if you decide to go back to accounting, you can do so with your maths degree since accounting isn't a subject that require specific degrees or A Levels (as you might have well found out). If you want to move onto a different field, the maths degree would probably be more flexible than the accounting qualification e.g. you can apply for grad roles in tech, something quantitative, actuary (even though you can do apprenticeships with A Level Maths), stats, bioinformatics.
I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
This would make your selection of degrees very limited and very narrow.
Personal recommendation: redo your A Levels and get the grades that you should have gotten, then reapply for uni (ideally doing further maths as well). If you do the ACA and hope to get into academia, you're going have an uphill battle.
If you want recommendations on how to resit your A Levels outside of college, let me know.
At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years
Whilst you can get standalone masters' for about £6k, some of the more expensive ones can cost £40k. Where possible, I would recommend getting an integrated master's as an undergrad degree, unless there's a specific subject/niche that you really want to do as a postgrad.
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Strictly speaking, an AAT Level 3 is the equivalent of 1 A Level. A Level 4 is the equivalent of a foundation degree/HNC, so you can move straight into a HND, then finish off with a bachelor's degree via top up. Alternatively, there are universities that offer accelerated accounting degrees with AAT. However, there is only a handful of unis that accept AAT or allow for the top up, and I don't recommend it if you can help it.
If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this?
The following explicitly state that they accept AAT:
https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/study/course-finder/ba-hons-accounting-and-finance-accelerated-2022-23#entry-requirements
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/courses/accounting-and-finance-bsc-hons-2023-24#entry_requirements
https://www.brookes.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/accounting-and-finance
There may be other universities that accept AAT for entry, but I have problems finding them. On the other hand, you might not have as much
Having said that, if you look at the ACA website, you can find the following page listing the academic qualifications you can go for with an ACA:
https://www.icaew.com/membership/support-throughout-your-career/career-progression/academic-opportunities-for-acas
Just to reiterate: I strongly recommend you redo your A Levels (ideally with Further Maths as your second A Level), then apply for a maths degree (ideally as an integrated master's) before going for the doctorate. If you want to be an accountant, then do the ACA by all means; if you want to become an academic, I would change course.
If worse comes to worse and the unis won't allow you to do resits for any random reason, then you can opt to do the maths degree via Open Uni (never ideal, but there are minimal entry requirements).
Let me know if you want me to outline the steps to retake your A Levels.
As previously mentioned, I don't see the point in you doing a master's in accounting post ACA. A master's in accounting would give you half of the exemptions towards an ACA i.e. it's like going out of your way to take a step backwards for no reason.
MScs in management and MBAs generally accept undergrads in any subjects so long you have the grades and you have a stellar personal statement. I personally don't see a point in doing them unless you want to progress into business research (if so, I would recommend the MBA over the MSc if you can afford it).
I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
•
Computer science (some degrees)
•
Anything in business (except for finance) e.g. marketing, accounting. You cannot do a business management degree if you have done it at undergrad
•
Anthropology
•
Nursing
•
Some criminology degrees
•
Nonquantiative economics degrees
•
Some film degrees
•
Hospitality
•
Some media degrees
•
Some journalism degrees
•
Education
•
Linguistics
•
Social work
•
Some politics degrees
•
Some agriculture degrees
•
Some fine art degrees
I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did.
If you want to go into mathematics, then you are going to go for a maths degree prior to doing the doctorate. I don't know any other way around this. I don't really understand why your parents would want you to take up an apprenticeship to go into a profession that you don't particularly want.
The salary expectations of a maths professor can go all the way up into the 6 figures, which is needless to say higher than an accountant's salary (albeit you will have a lot of competition and would have to spend decades working towards tenure and even then you have a slim chance of getting the high paying positions). If you ever work you way up to a partner or a financial director of a large accounting firm, you might be eligible for a six figure salary, but that's a very strong if; likewise if you want to go out on a limb and risk possible imprisonment if things go south very badly, you can consider external audits where they can pay 6 figure salaries at the Big 4.
See: https://www.emolument.com/career_advice/phd_and_doctorate_impact_salary#gsc.tab=0 (note, I don't know the specifics of where they got their data from, so I can't say what the specifics, exceptions, or disclaimers are).
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
From one maths person (more applied maths more than anything) to another, I can say this is very very unlikely. When I looked at accounting, I was greatly disappointed by how little actual maths there is and I was itching for something more complicated and involves more problem solving. I don't know how you would fare, but if you get an inkling that things aren't as satisfactory as you like them to be, I can vouch that it's not going to get any better.
If you want a mathematical job, then you would be looking at quants, actuary, or something in engineering (electrical most likely). If you want to go for the research roles, you're looking at biological mathematics, financial mathematics, mathematical economics, engineering, physics, or maths. For more stats oriented roles/research positions: economics, stats, data science/analysis. You can get something in computer science, but I would say it's more akin to data science than anything else.
Even if you decide to go back to accounting, you can do so with your maths degree since accounting isn't a subject that require specific degrees or A Levels (as you might have well found out). If you want to move onto a different field, the maths degree would probably be more flexible than the accounting qualification e.g. you can apply for grad roles in tech, something quantitative, actuary (even though you can do apprenticeships with A Level Maths), stats, bioinformatics.
I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
This would make your selection of degrees very limited and very narrow.
Personal recommendation: redo your A Levels and get the grades that you should have gotten, then reapply for uni (ideally doing further maths as well). If you do the ACA and hope to get into academia, you're going have an uphill battle.
If you want recommendations on how to resit your A Levels outside of college, let me know.
At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years
Whilst you can get standalone masters' for about £6k, some of the more expensive ones can cost £40k. Where possible, I would recommend getting an integrated master's as an undergrad degree, unless there's a specific subject/niche that you really want to do as a postgrad.
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Strictly speaking, an AAT Level 3 is the equivalent of 1 A Level. A Level 4 is the equivalent of a foundation degree/HNC, so you can move straight into a HND, then finish off with a bachelor's degree via top up. Alternatively, there are universities that offer accelerated accounting degrees with AAT. However, there is only a handful of unis that accept AAT or allow for the top up, and I don't recommend it if you can help it.
If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this?
The following explicitly state that they accept AAT:
https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/study/course-finder/ba-hons-accounting-and-finance-accelerated-2022-23#entry-requirements
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/courses/accounting-and-finance-bsc-hons-2023-24#entry_requirements
https://www.brookes.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/accounting-and-finance
There may be other universities that accept AAT for entry, but I have problems finding them. On the other hand, you might not have as much
Having said that, if you look at the ACA website, you can find the following page listing the academic qualifications you can go for with an ACA:
https://www.icaew.com/membership/support-throughout-your-career/career-progression/academic-opportunities-for-acas
Just to reiterate: I strongly recommend you redo your A Levels (ideally with Further Maths as your second A Level), then apply for a maths degree (ideally as an integrated master's) before going for the doctorate. If you want to be an accountant, then do the ACA by all means; if you want to become an academic, I would change course.
If worse comes to worse and the unis won't allow you to do resits for any random reason, then you can opt to do the maths degree via Open Uni (never ideal, but there are minimal entry requirements).
Let me know if you want me to outline the steps to retake your A Levels.
I will take your advice and go back to uni to do maths, thank you.
Should I redo a levels at home with a company like Oxbridge home learning or something?
I just wish to point out how utterly devastated my parents will be if i quit my apprenticeship 😅
They may ask me to at least complete my apprenticeship before going back to uni, but if I do this, I'm worried I'll be 25 or 26 when I finish my MMath.
Do you recommend I retake all 3 a levels and include further maths?
Original post by ajj2000
Wow - loads going on! Many congratulations on getting the apprenticeship. I'll try to respond to your points. There is a guy called Fehzan Mehdi who used to be active on this forum @Fehzan Mehdi I think - he tends to answer queries on his youtube channel quickly. He did and ACA apprenticeship and is very knowledgeable about routes from this - such as masters degrees.
It would be well worth checking his advice.
Anyway - onto your questions:
- can you get onto masters degrees with ACA but no undergrad - yes - there tend to be plenty of options. You might want to consider what your motivations are. You may with to take a standard masters course (Imperial MBA is pretty popular) where you do the full course as normal, or one which gives exemptions from part of the course for having ACA passes (this course through UCL might be a goood option and is certainly cheaper than most others https://www.london.ac.uk/courses/professional-accountancy).
You can check the ICAEW and ACCA websites for listings of courses with tie-ins with accountancy qualifications.
I can tell you now that I have every intention on taking up a position in academia.
Wow - thats different! Is your interest research or teaching or both?
However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
- I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
Well - you should at least do AAT for 2 years to get experience and then reconsider. Would the ACA contract be an additional 3 years? If so that seems like a long and hard commitment to a profession you don't want to continue in. On the other hand people do seem to become accountancy lecturers out of ACA (and universities seem to like recruiting people with experience in the profession). Not sure how you would research entry routes and probabilities. It may be that it is relatively easier to get university jobs in accounting than most other fields. It certainly pays less than half what someone teaching at Kaplan would earn!
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Yes - but it changes year by year. London South Bank will accept level 3 AAT for entry to the second year of their accounting degree. Liverpool St Johns used to also. Northampton had lots of routes to degrees with accounting qualifications which might be worth checking.
Birkbeck had an undergrad degree (https://www.icaew.com/-/media/corporate/files/members/career-support/academic-qualification-opportunities-for-acas.ashx) which allowed 50% exemptions for qualified accountants. I'm not sure if that still exists as I couldn't see it on their website. Well worth looking for.
In truth if you reach out to universities plenty would accept you with level 4.
I am entitled to UK funding, having been a London resident my entire life.
I will most likely stay in England for another 10 years or so before emigrating to the Middle East, or at least until I finish my postdoc (provided I'm lucky enough to even enrol in a masters then PhD). Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of this question?
A couple of things. While its fine in the UK to compete ACA without a degree and move towards academia plus a whole load of other jobs I'm nervous that this might not be the case in all other countries (regardless of whether you get a masters). Might it be relevant for visa reasons? Will universities have specific requirements you need to meet to be considered?
Secondly I'm not sure that @MindMax2000 comment above:
'How do you intend to fund your master's? As an accounting qualification with passes in all its modules considered the equivalent of a master's degree, you would likely be subject to the ELQ policy i.e. you won't likely be able to get student finance unless your chosen degree meets one of the exceptions e.g. allied health profession.'
is accurate. I might be out of date on this and the rules might change before you get there. However last time I was aware some who had completed ACA apprenticeships were looking to take unrelated undergrad degrees and were informed that they were entitled to funding. This might be very important to you (as someone entitled to UK student finance). It wouldn't be were you going to pay overseas rates.
It would be well worth checking his advice.
Anyway - onto your questions:
- can you get onto masters degrees with ACA but no undergrad - yes - there tend to be plenty of options. You might want to consider what your motivations are. You may with to take a standard masters course (Imperial MBA is pretty popular) where you do the full course as normal, or one which gives exemptions from part of the course for having ACA passes (this course through UCL might be a goood option and is certainly cheaper than most others https://www.london.ac.uk/courses/professional-accountancy).
You can check the ICAEW and ACCA websites for listings of courses with tie-ins with accountancy qualifications.
I can tell you now that I have every intention on taking up a position in academia.
Wow - thats different! Is your interest research or teaching or both?
However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
- I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
Well - you should at least do AAT for 2 years to get experience and then reconsider. Would the ACA contract be an additional 3 years? If so that seems like a long and hard commitment to a profession you don't want to continue in. On the other hand people do seem to become accountancy lecturers out of ACA (and universities seem to like recruiting people with experience in the profession). Not sure how you would research entry routes and probabilities. It may be that it is relatively easier to get university jobs in accounting than most other fields. It certainly pays less than half what someone teaching at Kaplan would earn!
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Yes - but it changes year by year. London South Bank will accept level 3 AAT for entry to the second year of their accounting degree. Liverpool St Johns used to also. Northampton had lots of routes to degrees with accounting qualifications which might be worth checking.
Birkbeck had an undergrad degree (https://www.icaew.com/-/media/corporate/files/members/career-support/academic-qualification-opportunities-for-acas.ashx) which allowed 50% exemptions for qualified accountants. I'm not sure if that still exists as I couldn't see it on their website. Well worth looking for.
In truth if you reach out to universities plenty would accept you with level 4.
I am entitled to UK funding, having been a London resident my entire life.
I will most likely stay in England for another 10 years or so before emigrating to the Middle East, or at least until I finish my postdoc (provided I'm lucky enough to even enrol in a masters then PhD). Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of this question?
A couple of things. While its fine in the UK to compete ACA without a degree and move towards academia plus a whole load of other jobs I'm nervous that this might not be the case in all other countries (regardless of whether you get a masters). Might it be relevant for visa reasons? Will universities have specific requirements you need to meet to be considered?
Secondly I'm not sure that @MindMax2000 comment above:
'How do you intend to fund your master's? As an accounting qualification with passes in all its modules considered the equivalent of a master's degree, you would likely be subject to the ELQ policy i.e. you won't likely be able to get student finance unless your chosen degree meets one of the exceptions e.g. allied health profession.'
is accurate. I might be out of date on this and the rules might change before you get there. However last time I was aware some who had completed ACA apprenticeships were looking to take unrelated undergrad degrees and were informed that they were entitled to funding. This might be very important to you (as someone entitled to UK student finance). It wouldn't be were you going to pay overseas rates.
I've been convinced to pursue my passion of mathematics and also go into academia lol
I must say, I am interested in both research and teaching (especially the latter, I have tutored my friends in a level maths despite my shite grades and watched their grades only go up)
Original post by Al_the_Pal
I've been convinced to pursue my passion of mathematics and also go into academia lol
I must say, I am interested in both research and teaching (especially the latter, I have tutored my friends in a level maths despite my shite grades and watched their grades only go up)
I must say, I am interested in both research and teaching (especially the latter, I have tutored my friends in a level maths despite my shite grades and watched their grades only go up)
I would head off and do a maths degree. Consider of the student finance benefits of working for three years before starting are worth it for you.
Original post by ajj2000
I would head off and do a maths degree. Consider of the student finance benefits of working for three years before starting are worth it for you.
well, if i work for 3 years then go to uni, i'd probably be 27 by the time i start my phd lol
Original post by Al_the_Pal
I will take your advice and go back to uni to do maths, thank you.
Should I redo a levels at home with a company like Oxbridge home learning or something?
I just wish to point out how utterly devastated my parents will be if i quit my apprenticeship 😅
They may ask me to at least complete my apprenticeship before going back to uni, but if I do this, I'm worried I'll be 25 or 26 when I finish my MMath.
Do you recommend I retake all 3 a levels and include further maths?
Should I redo a levels at home with a company like Oxbridge home learning or something?
I just wish to point out how utterly devastated my parents will be if i quit my apprenticeship 😅
They may ask me to at least complete my apprenticeship before going back to uni, but if I do this, I'm worried I'll be 25 or 26 when I finish my MMath.
Do you recommend I retake all 3 a levels and include further maths?
Should I redo a levels at home with a company like Oxbridge home learning or something?
It depends on a number of things. I used Oxbridge for my Maths, and I recommend them for that subject; I am not yet sure on the other subjects.
If you felt like you were underprepared for your papers but have all the knowledge you need, then revise and retake the exams only.
If you felt that you need to redo all of the relevant A Levels, then go and do courses on them (if you want, you can alternatively self study by getting the textbooks).
If you have passed all of the practicals in your physics, you can transfer the results over to your resit and just take the exams.
Each online course would go by specific exam boards, so you need to pick the online college carefully if you go down this route. Oxbridge follows EdExcel for FM as far as I know. If you're not a fan of EdExcel, then you should look for another online college.
If you want to book for the exams for this coming summer, I would do so before February to avoid the late fees; apply through an approved exam centre by your chosen exam boards.
Word is that a number of students who scored top grades in Maths, FM, and physics tend to do more practice papers and questions than anything else. I recommend watching the YouTube videos on people who got top grades in these subjects for their opinion and advice.
They may ask me to at least complete my apprenticeship before going back to uni, but if I do this, I'm worried I'll be 25 or 26 when I finish my MMath.
That remains your choice. I will probably not be wanting to sit through that conversation myself.
Don't get me wrong, an apprenticeship that you're on would be great as a backup plan in case you don't make it to academia or any quantitative role (although I struggle to think how you would). At worst, I think you can still walk away with being a maths teacher at college level or in secondary schools (they're really short on maths and STEM teachers).
You would still need time to resit the exams, so whether you want to continue with the apprenticeship until you complete the exams is up to you. AAT Levels 2 and 3 aren't rocket science; if you have done A Levels, these should be relatively straightforward to complete if they are taught well.
Not that I am recommending you to do this if you intend to go into academia, but you can also look into degrees in financial mathematics, actuarial science, financial engineering, maths + accounting joint degrees, maths + economics joint degrees should you need to persuade your parents (because I can understand if you need to) in one way or another (although I would still go for the MMath where possible).
Do you recommend I retake all 3 a levels and include further maths?
I'm more concerned with Maths, Further Maths, and the third A Level (any subject if you intend to do a math degree).
Personally, I would do Maths, FM, and Physics. However, it's up to you.
Some MMaths accept Maths alone, but the top end unis (if they accept resits) would be asking for FM ideally on top. You would need to check the entry requirements of the individual degrees to be sure.
@ajj2000, if there is conflicting information regarding the ELQ vs degree apprenticeships, then you might be right. I will need to check with Student Finance myself at some point to verify.
Original post by MindMax2000
@ajj2000, if there is conflicting information regarding the ELQ vs degree apprenticeships, then you might be right. I will need to check with Student Finance myself at some point to verify.
I think that accounting apprenticeships differ as they are not degree apprenticeships outside of a very few exceptions. I have been interested in what happens with degree apprenticeships if someone drops out before completing the course or passes but wants to take a different degree. I'm assuming that if you complete a degree apprenticeship you cant get further student finance outside of exception courses. Any idea what happens if someone drops out before finishing?
Original post by ajj2000
I think that accounting apprenticeships differ as they are not degree apprenticeships outside of a very few exceptions. I have been interested in what happens with degree apprenticeships if someone drops out before completing the course or passes but wants to take a different degree. I'm assuming that if you complete a degree apprenticeship you cant get further student finance outside of exception courses. Any idea what happens if someone drops out before finishing?
Unfortunately no. I have been fortunate enough not to be in such situation, so I have never looked into it myself.
Original post by MindMax2000
Should I redo a levels at home with a company like Oxbridge home learning or something?
It depends on a number of things. I used Oxbridge for my Maths, and I recommend them for that subject; I am not yet sure on the other subjects.
If you felt like you were underprepared for your papers but have all the knowledge you need, then revise and retake the exams only.
If you felt that you need to redo all of the relevant A Levels, then go and do courses on them (if you want, you can alternatively self study by getting the textbooks).
If you have passed all of the practicals in your physics, you can transfer the results over to your resit and just take the exams.
Each online course would go by specific exam boards, so you need to pick the online college carefully if you go down this route. Oxbridge follows EdExcel for FM as far as I know. If you're not a fan of EdExcel, then you should look for another online college.
If you want to book for the exams for this coming summer, I would do so before February to avoid the late fees; apply through an approved exam centre by your chosen exam boards.
Word is that a number of students who scored top grades in Maths, FM, and physics tend to do more practice papers and questions than anything else. I recommend watching the YouTube videos on people who got top grades in these subjects for their opinion and advice.
They may ask me to at least complete my apprenticeship before going back to uni, but if I do this, I'm worried I'll be 25 or 26 when I finish my MMath.
That remains your choice. I will probably not be wanting to sit through that conversation myself.
Don't get me wrong, an apprenticeship that you're on would be great as a backup plan in case you don't make it to academia or any quantitative role (although I struggle to think how you would). At worst, I think you can still walk away with being a maths teacher at college level or in secondary schools (they're really short on maths and STEM teachers).
You would still need time to resit the exams, so whether you want to continue with the apprenticeship until you complete the exams is up to you. AAT Levels 2 and 3 aren't rocket science; if you have done A Levels, these should be relatively straightforward to complete if they are taught well.
Not that I am recommending you to do this if you intend to go into academia, but you can also look into degrees in financial mathematics, actuarial science, financial engineering, maths + accounting joint degrees, maths + economics joint degrees should you need to persuade your parents (because I can understand if you need to) in one way or another (although I would still go for the MMath where possible).
Do you recommend I retake all 3 a levels and include further maths?
I'm more concerned with Maths, Further Maths, and the third A Level (any subject if you intend to do a math degree).
Personally, I would do Maths, FM, and Physics. However, it's up to you.
Some MMaths accept Maths alone, but the top end unis (if they accept resits) would be asking for FM ideally on top. You would need to check the entry requirements of the individual degrees to be sure.
@ajj2000, if there is conflicting information regarding the ELQ vs degree apprenticeships, then you might be right. I will need to check with Student Finance myself at some point to verify.
It depends on a number of things. I used Oxbridge for my Maths, and I recommend them for that subject; I am not yet sure on the other subjects.
If you felt like you were underprepared for your papers but have all the knowledge you need, then revise and retake the exams only.
If you felt that you need to redo all of the relevant A Levels, then go and do courses on them (if you want, you can alternatively self study by getting the textbooks).
If you have passed all of the practicals in your physics, you can transfer the results over to your resit and just take the exams.
Each online course would go by specific exam boards, so you need to pick the online college carefully if you go down this route. Oxbridge follows EdExcel for FM as far as I know. If you're not a fan of EdExcel, then you should look for another online college.
If you want to book for the exams for this coming summer, I would do so before February to avoid the late fees; apply through an approved exam centre by your chosen exam boards.
Word is that a number of students who scored top grades in Maths, FM, and physics tend to do more practice papers and questions than anything else. I recommend watching the YouTube videos on people who got top grades in these subjects for their opinion and advice.
They may ask me to at least complete my apprenticeship before going back to uni, but if I do this, I'm worried I'll be 25 or 26 when I finish my MMath.
That remains your choice. I will probably not be wanting to sit through that conversation myself.
Don't get me wrong, an apprenticeship that you're on would be great as a backup plan in case you don't make it to academia or any quantitative role (although I struggle to think how you would). At worst, I think you can still walk away with being a maths teacher at college level or in secondary schools (they're really short on maths and STEM teachers).
You would still need time to resit the exams, so whether you want to continue with the apprenticeship until you complete the exams is up to you. AAT Levels 2 and 3 aren't rocket science; if you have done A Levels, these should be relatively straightforward to complete if they are taught well.
Not that I am recommending you to do this if you intend to go into academia, but you can also look into degrees in financial mathematics, actuarial science, financial engineering, maths + accounting joint degrees, maths + economics joint degrees should you need to persuade your parents (because I can understand if you need to) in one way or another (although I would still go for the MMath where possible).
Do you recommend I retake all 3 a levels and include further maths?
I'm more concerned with Maths, Further Maths, and the third A Level (any subject if you intend to do a math degree).
Personally, I would do Maths, FM, and Physics. However, it's up to you.
Some MMaths accept Maths alone, but the top end unis (if they accept resits) would be asking for FM ideally on top. You would need to check the entry requirements of the individual degrees to be sure.
@ajj2000, if there is conflicting information regarding the ELQ vs degree apprenticeships, then you might be right. I will need to check with Student Finance myself at some point to verify.
I did Edexcel Maths and AQA Physics with a pass in the practical component.
I will probably quit in early spring 2024 and leave with a level 3 AAT qualification.
I will also probably resit in Winter or Summer 2025 so I can have ample time to thoroughly study FM and also revise Maths and Physics (mostly FM, though).
This way, I will be able to start uni in September 2025 and start my PhD aged 24, which I think is pretty okay.
Being a secondary school teacher in England seems like a fate worse than death, but it certainly seems a reasonable backup if everything goes to shite.
Do you happen to know which unis don't accept retakes?
Original post by Al_the_Pal
I did Edexcel Maths and AQA Physics with a pass in the practical component.
I will probably quit in early spring 2024 and leave with a level 3 AAT qualification.
I will also probably resit in Winter or Summer 2025 so I can have ample time to thoroughly study FM and also revise Maths and Physics (mostly FM, though).
This way, I will be able to start uni in September 2025 and start my PhD aged 24, which I think is pretty okay.
Being a secondary school teacher in England seems like a fate worse than death, but it certainly seems a reasonable backup if everything goes to shite.
Do you happen to know which unis don't accept retakes?
I will probably quit in early spring 2024 and leave with a level 3 AAT qualification.
I will also probably resit in Winter or Summer 2025 so I can have ample time to thoroughly study FM and also revise Maths and Physics (mostly FM, though).
This way, I will be able to start uni in September 2025 and start my PhD aged 24, which I think is pretty okay.
Being a secondary school teacher in England seems like a fate worse than death, but it certainly seems a reasonable backup if everything goes to shite.
Do you happen to know which unis don't accept retakes?
I did Edexcel Maths and AQA Physics with a pass in the practical component.
OK. If you want to stick with the same exam boards, it's up to you. Did you want to resit English Lit?
I will probably quit in early spring 2024 and leave with a level 3 AAT qualification.
Would you have at least 1 year's experience by then? If you don't then it might be an issue if you use this as experience for future accounting work
I will also probably resit in Winter or Summer 2025 so I can have ample time to thoroughly study FM and also revise Maths and Physics (mostly FM, though).
I am not entirely sure whether there is an opportunity to resit Maths during Winter. I know it's available for iALs, but not UK A Levels. You're more likely to be looking at Summer 2025. There is no harm in resitting the 2 subjects earlier if you are confident you are thoroughly prepared, saving FM for later.
This way, I will be able to start uni in September 2025 and start my PhD aged 24, which I think is pretty okay.
As far as I know, unis don't discriminate you on age when it comes to PhD applications. Having said that, they also say that a mathematician's best work tend to be in their early 20s.
Do note that a recent Fields Medalist was not specifically known to be an ideal maths candidate, and in fact was more or less expected to be a drop out. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Huh I personally see this guy as an inspiration to all mathematicians i.e. don't give up.
Being a secondary school teacher in England seems like a fate worse than death, but it certainly seems a reasonable backup if everything goes to shite.
Well, I wouldn't go insulting them. Having said that, you can go into a number of fields with a maths degree (or any degree). See:
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/mathematics
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/careers/careers-with-a-mathematics-degree
https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/career-ideas/what-can-i-do-mathematics-degree
https://www.mathscareers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Whatcanidowithmymathsdegree.pdf
As previously mentioned though, only a handful of professions use maths that's of A Level standard or higher, so take the above with a pinch of salt.
Do you happen to know which unis don't accept retakes?
Not from the top of my head unfortunately. They tend to be the top end unis where there's a lot of competition for their maths degrees. If they don't consider retakes, they will specify on the entry requirements section of the degree course page. If they do accept retakes with conditions, they will also specify this in the same section. If there is no mention of retakes, then it's usually safe to assume you're fine either way.
Original post by MindMax2000
I did Edexcel Maths and AQA Physics with a pass in the practical component.
OK. If you want to stick with the same exam boards, it's up to you. Did you want to resit English Lit?
I will probably quit in early spring 2024 and leave with a level 3 AAT qualification.
Would you have at least 1 year's experience by then? If you don't then it might be an issue if you use this as experience for future accounting work
I will also probably resit in Winter or Summer 2025 so I can have ample time to thoroughly study FM and also revise Maths and Physics (mostly FM, though).
I am not entirely sure whether there is an opportunity to resit Maths during Winter. I know it's available for iALs, but not UK A Levels. You're more likely to be looking at Summer 2025. There is no harm in resitting the 2 subjects earlier if you are confident you are thoroughly prepared, saving FM for later.
This way, I will be able to start uni in September 2025 and start my PhD aged 24, which I think is pretty okay.
As far as I know, unis don't discriminate you on age when it comes to PhD applications. Having said that, they also say that a mathematician's best work tend to be in their early 20s.
Do note that a recent Fields Medalist was not specifically known to be an ideal maths candidate, and in fact was more or less expected to be a drop out. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Huh I personally see this guy as an inspiration to all mathematicians i.e. don't give up.
Being a secondary school teacher in England seems like a fate worse than death, but it certainly seems a reasonable backup if everything goes to shite.
Well, I wouldn't go insulting them. Having said that, you can go into a number of fields with a maths degree (or any degree). See:
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/mathematics
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/careers/careers-with-a-mathematics-degree
https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/career-ideas/what-can-i-do-mathematics-degree
https://www.mathscareers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Whatcanidowithmymathsdegree.pdf
As previously mentioned though, only a handful of professions use maths that's of A Level standard or higher, so take the above with a pinch of salt.
Do you happen to know which unis don't accept retakes?
Not from the top of my head unfortunately. They tend to be the top end unis where there's a lot of competition for their maths degrees. If they don't consider retakes, they will specify on the entry requirements section of the degree course page. If they do accept retakes with conditions, they will also specify this in the same section. If there is no mention of retakes, then it's usually safe to assume you're fine either way.
OK. If you want to stick with the same exam boards, it's up to you. Did you want to resit English Lit?
I will probably quit in early spring 2024 and leave with a level 3 AAT qualification.
Would you have at least 1 year's experience by then? If you don't then it might be an issue if you use this as experience for future accounting work
I will also probably resit in Winter or Summer 2025 so I can have ample time to thoroughly study FM and also revise Maths and Physics (mostly FM, though).
I am not entirely sure whether there is an opportunity to resit Maths during Winter. I know it's available for iALs, but not UK A Levels. You're more likely to be looking at Summer 2025. There is no harm in resitting the 2 subjects earlier if you are confident you are thoroughly prepared, saving FM for later.
This way, I will be able to start uni in September 2025 and start my PhD aged 24, which I think is pretty okay.
As far as I know, unis don't discriminate you on age when it comes to PhD applications. Having said that, they also say that a mathematician's best work tend to be in their early 20s.
Do note that a recent Fields Medalist was not specifically known to be an ideal maths candidate, and in fact was more or less expected to be a drop out. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Huh I personally see this guy as an inspiration to all mathematicians i.e. don't give up.
Being a secondary school teacher in England seems like a fate worse than death, but it certainly seems a reasonable backup if everything goes to shite.
Well, I wouldn't go insulting them. Having said that, you can go into a number of fields with a maths degree (or any degree). See:
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/mathematics
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/careers/careers-with-a-mathematics-degree
https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/career-ideas/what-can-i-do-mathematics-degree
https://www.mathscareers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Whatcanidowithmymathsdegree.pdf
As previously mentioned though, only a handful of professions use maths that's of A Level standard or higher, so take the above with a pinch of salt.
Do you happen to know which unis don't accept retakes?
Not from the top of my head unfortunately. They tend to be the top end unis where there's a lot of competition for their maths degrees. If they don't consider retakes, they will specify on the entry requirements section of the degree course page. If they do accept retakes with conditions, they will also specify this in the same section. If there is no mention of retakes, then it's usually safe to assume you're fine either way.
I'm not sure if my situation necessitates me redoing all 3 A-levels. I got a C in English Lit., so would I still be okay if I left with, say AABC with the C being in English?
I'd be alright with a Summer '25 resit.
I know grad schools don't really discriminate vis a vis age, but none of us know which day on Earth will be our last, so I'd like to waste as little time as possible.
I don't wanna insult teachers hahaha, but I am grateful for the breadth of opportunity opened to maths graduates.
Original post by Al_the_Pal
I'm not sure if my situation necessitates me redoing all 3 A-levels. I got a C in English Lit., so would I still be okay if I left with, say AABC with the C being in English?
I'd be alright with a Summer '25 resit.
I know grad schools don't really discriminate vis a vis age, but none of us know which day on Earth will be our last, so I'd like to waste as little time as possible.
I don't wanna insult teachers hahaha, but I am grateful for the breadth of opportunity opened to maths graduates.
I'd be alright with a Summer '25 resit.
I know grad schools don't really discriminate vis a vis age, but none of us know which day on Earth will be our last, so I'd like to waste as little time as possible.
I don't wanna insult teachers hahaha, but I am grateful for the breadth of opportunity opened to maths graduates.
ACA is a professional qualification, it is not going to get you a route into academia. To do that, without an undergrad degree, you would need to apply on the basis of professional experience, which would mean 5-10 years of top quality work as an accountant.
There is little or no point planning this far in advance, when each step requires success. You need to be honest with yourself - you dinged your A levels - that is not an effective start to a career in academia. You are then doing an ATA apprenticeship - this is not a route into academia. You need to see how you do with ATA before you can even sensibly think of ACA. Even if you flourish at ATA and do go on to do ACA, you need to qualify and work. Then you will need years of proving the application of the ACA qualification to be able to use it. ACA alone will not get you into a Masters degree that will lead to 'academia'.
Original post by threeportdrift
ACA is a professional qualification, it is not going to get you a route into academia. To do that, without an undergrad degree, you would need to apply on the basis of professional experience, which would mean 5-10 years of top quality work as an accountant.
There is little or no point planning this far in advance, when each step requires success. You need to be honest with yourself - you dinged your A levels - that is not an effective start to a career in academia. You are then doing an ATA apprenticeship - this is not a route into academia. You need to see how you do with ATA before you can even sensibly think of ACA. Even if you flourish at ATA and do go on to do ACA, you need to qualify and work. Then you will need years of proving the application of the ACA qualification to be able to use it. ACA alone will not get you into a Masters degree that will lead to 'academia'.
There is little or no point planning this far in advance, when each step requires success. You need to be honest with yourself - you dinged your A levels - that is not an effective start to a career in academia. You are then doing an ATA apprenticeship - this is not a route into academia. You need to see how you do with ATA before you can even sensibly think of ACA. Even if you flourish at ATA and do go on to do ACA, you need to qualify and work. Then you will need years of proving the application of the ACA qualification to be able to use it. ACA alone will not get you into a Masters degree that will lead to 'academia'.
hi, thanks for your response. although i agree with literally everything you just told me, i rather fear we're past this stage, more or less nullifying my original question haha.
i am to redo my A-levels and go to university. that is the simplest and best solution for me.
Original post by MindMax2000
I would imagine something relevant to accounting/management may seem appropriate.
As previously mentioned, I don't see the point in you doing a master's in accounting post ACA. A master's in accounting would give you half of the exemptions towards an ACA i.e. it's like going out of your way to take a step backwards for no reason.
MScs in management and MBAs generally accept undergrads in any subjects so long you have the grades and you have a stellar personal statement. I personally don't see a point in doing them unless you want to progress into business research (if so, I would recommend the MBA over the MSc if you can afford it).
I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did.
If you want to go into mathematics, then you are going to go for a maths degree prior to doing the doctorate. I don't know any other way around this. I don't really understand why your parents would want you to take up an apprenticeship to go into a profession that you don't particularly want.
The salary expectations of a maths professor can go all the way up into the 6 figures, which is needless to say higher than an accountant's salary (albeit you will have a lot of competition and would have to spend decades working towards tenure and even then you have a slim chance of getting the high paying positions). If you ever work you way up to a partner or a financial director of a large accounting firm, you might be eligible for a six figure salary, but that's a very strong if; likewise if you want to go out on a limb and risk possible imprisonment if things go south very badly, you can consider external audits where they can pay 6 figure salaries at the Big 4.
See: https://www.emolument.com/career_advice/phd_and_doctorate_impact_salary#gsc.tab=0 (note, I don't know the specifics of where they got their data from, so I can't say what the specifics, exceptions, or disclaimers are).
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
From one maths person (more applied maths more than anything) to another, I can say this is very very unlikely. When I looked at accounting, I was greatly disappointed by how little actual maths there is and I was itching for something more complicated and involves more problem solving. I don't know how you would fare, but if you get an inkling that things aren't as satisfactory as you like them to be, I can vouch that it's not going to get any better.
If you want a mathematical job, then you would be looking at quants, actuary, or something in engineering (electrical most likely). If you want to go for the research roles, you're looking at biological mathematics, financial mathematics, mathematical economics, engineering, physics, or maths. For more stats oriented roles/research positions: economics, stats, data science/analysis. You can get something in computer science, but I would say it's more akin to data science than anything else.
Even if you decide to go back to accounting, you can do so with your maths degree since accounting isn't a subject that require specific degrees or A Levels (as you might have well found out). If you want to move onto a different field, the maths degree would probably be more flexible than the accounting qualification e.g. you can apply for grad roles in tech, something quantitative, actuary (even though you can do apprenticeships with A Level Maths), stats, bioinformatics.
I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
This would make your selection of degrees very limited and very narrow.
Personal recommendation: redo your A Levels and get the grades that you should have gotten, then reapply for uni (ideally doing further maths as well). If you do the ACA and hope to get into academia, you're going have an uphill battle.
If you want recommendations on how to resit your A Levels outside of college, let me know.
At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years
Whilst you can get standalone masters' for about £6k, some of the more expensive ones can cost £40k. Where possible, I would recommend getting an integrated master's as an undergrad degree, unless there's a specific subject/niche that you really want to do as a postgrad.
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Strictly speaking, an AAT Level 3 is the equivalent of 1 A Level. A Level 4 is the equivalent of a foundation degree/HNC, so you can move straight into a HND, then finish off with a bachelor's degree via top up. Alternatively, there are universities that offer accelerated accounting degrees with AAT. However, there is only a handful of unis that accept AAT or allow for the top up, and I don't recommend it if you can help it.
If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this?
The following explicitly state that they accept AAT:
https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/study/course-finder/ba-hons-accounting-and-finance-accelerated-2022-23#entry-requirements
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/courses/accounting-and-finance-bsc-hons-2023-24#entry_requirements
https://www.brookes.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/accounting-and-finance
There may be other universities that accept AAT for entry, but I have problems finding them. On the other hand, you might not have as much
Having said that, if you look at the ACA website, you can find the following page listing the academic qualifications you can go for with an ACA:
https://www.icaew.com/membership/support-throughout-your-career/career-progression/academic-opportunities-for-acas
Just to reiterate: I strongly recommend you redo your A Levels (ideally with Further Maths as your second A Level), then apply for a maths degree (ideally as an integrated master's) before going for the doctorate. If you want to be an accountant, then do the ACA by all means; if you want to become an academic, I would change course.
If worse comes to worse and the unis won't allow you to do resits for any random reason, then you can opt to do the maths degree via Open Uni (never ideal, but there are minimal entry requirements).
Let me know if you want me to outline the steps to retake your A Levels.
As previously mentioned, I don't see the point in you doing a master's in accounting post ACA. A master's in accounting would give you half of the exemptions towards an ACA i.e. it's like going out of your way to take a step backwards for no reason.
MScs in management and MBAs generally accept undergrads in any subjects so long you have the grades and you have a stellar personal statement. I personally don't see a point in doing them unless you want to progress into business research (if so, I would recommend the MBA over the MSc if you can afford it).
I understand you mentioned there was a not-so-long list of degrees that would accept any equivalent qualification. Would you mind sharing that list?
•
Computer science (some degrees)
•
Anything in business (except for finance) e.g. marketing, accounting. You cannot do a business management degree if you have done it at undergrad
•
Anthropology
•
Nursing
•
Some criminology degrees
•
Nonquantiative economics degrees
•
Some film degrees
•
Hospitality
•
Some media degrees
•
Some journalism degrees
•
Education
•
Linguistics
•
Social work
•
Some politics degrees
•
Some agriculture degrees
•
Some fine art degrees
I always had a keen interest in mathematical sciences, and had accepted a place to study Maths and Philosophy at Royal Holloway College, but upon attaining the apprenticeship, my parents urged me to reject the uni offer and take up the apprenticeship instead, which I did.
If you want to go into mathematics, then you are going to go for a maths degree prior to doing the doctorate. I don't know any other way around this. I don't really understand why your parents would want you to take up an apprenticeship to go into a profession that you don't particularly want.
The salary expectations of a maths professor can go all the way up into the 6 figures, which is needless to say higher than an accountant's salary (albeit you will have a lot of competition and would have to spend decades working towards tenure and even then you have a slim chance of getting the high paying positions). If you ever work you way up to a partner or a financial director of a large accounting firm, you might be eligible for a six figure salary, but that's a very strong if; likewise if you want to go out on a limb and risk possible imprisonment if things go south very badly, you can consider external audits where they can pay 6 figure salaries at the Big 4.
See: https://www.emolument.com/career_advice/phd_and_doctorate_impact_salary#gsc.tab=0 (note, I don't know the specifics of where they got their data from, so I can't say what the specifics, exceptions, or disclaimers are).
I do not know as of yet if I will do well in or enjoy an academic position in an accounting/finance/management-related field, but I think I should wait and see how my AAT goes at the very least. However, I'm not the most confident, especially knowing my passions lie elsewhere.
From one maths person (more applied maths more than anything) to another, I can say this is very very unlikely. When I looked at accounting, I was greatly disappointed by how little actual maths there is and I was itching for something more complicated and involves more problem solving. I don't know how you would fare, but if you get an inkling that things aren't as satisfactory as you like them to be, I can vouch that it's not going to get any better.
If you want a mathematical job, then you would be looking at quants, actuary, or something in engineering (electrical most likely). If you want to go for the research roles, you're looking at biological mathematics, financial mathematics, mathematical economics, engineering, physics, or maths. For more stats oriented roles/research positions: economics, stats, data science/analysis. You can get something in computer science, but I would say it's more akin to data science than anything else.
Even if you decide to go back to accounting, you can do so with your maths degree since accounting isn't a subject that require specific degrees or A Levels (as you might have well found out). If you want to move onto a different field, the maths degree would probably be more flexible than the accounting qualification e.g. you can apply for grad roles in tech, something quantitative, actuary (even though you can do apprenticeships with A Level Maths), stats, bioinformatics.
I don't want to progress as a professional accountant after ACA, rather find an entry route into academia.
This would make your selection of degrees very limited and very narrow.
Personal recommendation: redo your A Levels and get the grades that you should have gotten, then reapply for uni (ideally doing further maths as well). If you do the ACA and hope to get into academia, you're going have an uphill battle.
If you want recommendations on how to resit your A Levels outside of college, let me know.
At the end of my ACA, I will have a fair amount of money saved up, as I currently live with my parents, and likely will continue to do so for the next few years
Whilst you can get standalone masters' for about £6k, some of the more expensive ones can cost £40k. Where possible, I would recommend getting an integrated master's as an undergrad degree, unless there's a specific subject/niche that you really want to do as a postgrad.
Can my AAT (level 3 and 4) function as a foundation degree, allowing me to apply to certain bachelors programs at universities?
Strictly speaking, an AAT Level 3 is the equivalent of 1 A Level. A Level 4 is the equivalent of a foundation degree/HNC, so you can move straight into a HND, then finish off with a bachelor's degree via top up. Alternatively, there are universities that offer accelerated accounting degrees with AAT. However, there is only a handful of unis that accept AAT or allow for the top up, and I don't recommend it if you can help it.
If so, may you give me some example unis/courses that may accept this?
The following explicitly state that they accept AAT:
https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/study/course-finder/ba-hons-accounting-and-finance-accelerated-2022-23#entry-requirements
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/courses/accounting-and-finance-bsc-hons-2023-24#entry_requirements
https://www.brookes.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/accounting-and-finance
There may be other universities that accept AAT for entry, but I have problems finding them. On the other hand, you might not have as much
Having said that, if you look at the ACA website, you can find the following page listing the academic qualifications you can go for with an ACA:
https://www.icaew.com/membership/support-throughout-your-career/career-progression/academic-opportunities-for-acas
Just to reiterate: I strongly recommend you redo your A Levels (ideally with Further Maths as your second A Level), then apply for a maths degree (ideally as an integrated master's) before going for the doctorate. If you want to be an accountant, then do the ACA by all means; if you want to become an academic, I would change course.
If worse comes to worse and the unis won't allow you to do resits for any random reason, then you can opt to do the maths degree via Open Uni (never ideal, but there are minimal entry requirements).
Let me know if you want me to outline the steps to retake your A Levels.
by the way, is it worth it to do a foundation year starting September 2024, or is it simply better to resit? Either way I'll be starting my bachelors in September 2025.
If I do resit, is it entirely feasible to do FM in little over a year? Say, if I did CP1 and 2, FM1 and FS1 alongside resitting Maths and Physics.
I'm just considering the harshness of A-level grading these days. Bear in mind I was predicted A*AB in my 3 A-levels, and have never achieved less than a B in any subject (excluding that one time in year 12 when I got a C in my Physics mock). My friends and I were all doing brilliantly before our final exams, and we all flopped on results day, disappointingly (maybe we all just got a little too confident haha).
(edited 1 year ago)
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