What do I do from here?
So there's a lot of context to this situation:
I've always been a pretty lonely person. I've never had a girlfriend despite already being 22, and I've never really had much in terms of friends. In fact, I only really had two people I actually thought of as friends for my entire life, these two sisters that don't even live in the same country as me, but we've been this closely-knitted trio pretty much since we were toddlers, when our parents first introduced us to one another. So they were my best friends for pretty much all my life, but in the recent years I ended up really preferring to talk and hang out with one of them: the older sister. She was a lot more mature, very smart, charming, and she was always just a great person to hang out with. And we were still extremely close even though we just messaged each other from time to time and just met in-person a few times a year.
Eventually I grew to full-on love her and really wanting to spend the rest of my life with her. She was just the perfect person, we had so much in common, it just seemed natural. I tried to build up confidence over a few years to actually do it. And because I'm just so clueless when talking to people, and I wanted this to go and well as possible, I wanted to take my time. She also has never been in a relationship though, so I hoped that that will also at least make her standards a bit lower for these sorts of proposals.
One time when I went over to them, I feel like I made a good-enough script on what to say to her and I just built up enough confidence after so many years to ask her out. So with the excuse of going up to her room to check up on her and see how I was feeling, I was finally alone with her and ready to tell her that. I started out presenting her a gift I bought for her, this metal rose with a little plaque that said her name and "A rose for you". Roses are her favourite flower, and she even wants to give any future daughter the name Rose. After that I sat on the side of her bed and just went with my script.
She looked really taken in by what I was saying. After that she just went "wow, I really didn't expect that" as she continued to smile but clearly being stuck as to what to say. She eventually said my words were all very kind, and that it's just a lot to think about, and that she just has to think about it first.
Two days later when I visited their house again, I once again made an excuse to go up to her room and check up on her. We talked for a while about how she felt, before awkwardly getting back on topic. It was clear that none of us wanted to start that topic but I did. She just gave out a small chuckle as I went into it, reaffirming to her that's she's truly the best person I've ever met and how it would be an honour to be her boyfriend. However, she then began saying how it's all very sweet of me to say it and all, but she just won't be able to have the same feelings towards me, and she sees me more like a brother than anything. I tried to rescue the situation but to no avail. We just ended the conversation hugging it out, and me jokingly saying "well if you ever change your mind you know where to find me", and leaving her room. Just like that I felt my life shatter. It was supposed to all work out, I thought we would be happy together, but apparently not. And I was driving myself crazy thinking how I could've done it any better. I became even more of a wreck than before, unable to do anything, paralysed by the depressing thought that we'll most likely never be together, despite me thinking that so many things were telling me that it would work out. I just was frozen by grief and didn't know how to move on. And I also became anxious about how it would impact our friendship.
A few days later, at another visit at their house, when we had another moment alone, she said she just wants to go back to that conversation and ask me something. For a minute there I was hopeful that she changed her mind, but what she said was worse than anything I could imagine. She legit asked me if because of this, do I feel like distancing myself from her a bit, and if I will be fine still being close friends with her. I naturally said that of course not, I want things to stay as they are and I just want things to return to status quo between us. But for some reason she wasn't convinced I was telling her the truth.
A few more days pass, and in the middle of the night, I receive a message from her, saying that she basically never wants to see me or talk to me ever again. I was so confused as to why she was reacting like that, and why someone so smart and reasonable was now so eager to destroy a life-long friendship. So I asked if she's really sure about it, trying to remind her of all the good memories we have, and telling her how we really shouldn't sacrifice all of that just because of this. But what she said next truly broke me, and she did some awful stuff I'd never expect from someone so kind to the core, innocent and friendly. Firstly she tried to downplay our friendship to try and justify her breaking off contact with me. She literally said that we were never much more than "mates", and was talking a lot about how we were never really that close. Even though just days ago she said I was like a "brother" to her, and I still have messages from her from not so long ago, when she says that she considers me her best friend, and how she loves how much we have in common and how close we are. So that already was very fishy. For someone so kind, someone who hates causing a fuss, and someone so rational, it all just fell off. In that moment she felt like a completely different person. Granted I always seen that she did have some trouble with her emotions sometimes. Plus similar to me she's just kind of a shy person, so I wouldn't imagine she'd ever want to make thins so awkward.
A few days later, after my return home, she messaged me again, saying how she really doesn't care for this friendship, saying not to talk to her, before blocking me on Facebook, the only means we had of messaging each other.
It got worse when I messaged her sister, asking her to help fix my friendship with the girl. I didn't think she even knew what was going on between us as I didn't tell her before and I thought that the girl I asked out would be too awkward to say what was going on either. So I just texted her saying that I need her help fixing our friendship, and that our trio was at risk of falling apart. I didn't tell her the reason for it all yet, the fact I asked out her sister, just wanted to make sure that's she's interested first. I was hoping to get a response saying that's she ready to help in whatever this is. but instead she sent me a short novel-worth of text, saying I'm somehow being childish and playing dumb games, how she supports her sister's decision, and that my behaviour crossed all lines. I was really confused and depressed by this, I never expected to all of a sudden see both of the closest people in my life to be so hostile towards me. But what was also off was the fact that none of the "accusations" made any sense in context of what was going on, and I didn't do anything of what she accused me of. This lead me to maybe believe that that sister I asked out could be even feeding her the wrong information, or for some reason interpreted me simply not wanting to end such a good friendship, as something much worse. I tried to explain that to the sister, but she wouldn't listen. What I also just don't understand is why she outright refused to acknowledge when I said I will survive still being friends with her, it won't drive me to depression or anything. It's something I also asked the sister about, if the two genuinely think I'm so weak mentally or something that this will drive me insane or something, but again, she just refused to answer and just ignored that question.
As our parents were still friends, and at least mine knew nothing about the situation (don't know about theirs), we still visit their house to hang out. The next time we visited was extremely stressful, as I just didn't know where we stand at all, and I haven't spoken to either sister since the argument. I didn't speak much as is always the case, but the younger one was fairly fine with some small talk with me. The one I asked out, while she didn't speak to me at all, did at least smile and shake my hand and said goodbye when we were leaving (though she was very quick to stick out her hand for a handshake vs a hug which we usually did). That night, looking at her, I realised I couldn't let things end the way they did. After the visit, I messaged the younger sister to congratulate her on her recent engagement, something I didn't do at the visit (yes, she got engaged despite being just a month older than me, which certainly didn't make me feel better about myself, and just somehow made me sadder). I also realised I needed to do something about the the other sister as well.
As she blocked me, I decided to get in touch with her a different way, a letter. She loves things such as literature, letters, and anything classical, soft, and sentimental like that. I spent the next few months writing a letter, trying to put together something cohesive of the mess of thoughts in my mind over the situation. It was less of a love letter, wasn't even a "let's start anew" one really, just a rather non-committal "you made me such a better person, things were so great when we spoke, let's just maybe keep in touch". I was scared of pushing anything, so I wanted to leave the intent pretty open-ended. I even included some photos from the time they visited me for a few days. However, I just included photos of just the two sisters together, as I didn't want to push my luck and make it seem like I'm including them to go "oh look how happy the three of us were together".
I knew I'd eventually meet her at the wedding. We sat in the same pew, and I generally drifted around her, though we didn't speak, the only person I spoke to was one of their friends which I met before that also mostly stood around her or the sister, or their other friends.
At the wedding party, I was looking for any excuse to talk to her, but being my awkward self, I knew I wouldn't be able to just walk up to her. Instead, I decided to use an ace up my sleeve. My cousin happened to be the host/DJ of the party, so when the various games started, I wanted to ask him for a favour, and to orchestrate a scenario where I would get to chat or dance with her or something. However, before I had a chance to do that, the game began. The guys in one circle outside, and all the girls in another circle inside. Each circle would spin, the music would stop, girls would turn around, and the guys would have to do something (compliment, kiss on the hand, etc). And on the very final one, just as thought the game was over, my cousin announced the finale. The girls would have to turn around and dance with the guy. And guess who I just stopped in front of me. I could've never imagined more luck than that.
When she turned around, she did a small a awkward laugh, and I still didn't know where we stood, to be kind I just leaned in and told her that if she doesn't want to dance with me, it's fine and I get. However, she said it's fine, and my very first dance of my life was with her of all people. She said she got the letter, and that she wanted to talk to me about it. That made me pretty confident in the whole situation, however, as she was always away dancing or something, and I was mostly sat at my table just on my phone, we didn't have a chance to talk, though I couldn't tell if she was just trying to delay it on purpose. We did chat a bit more, about life in general, uni, and stuff, and she seemed like the old days again, the way she interacted with me. When I was saying goodbye to her when we were leaving, she told me she'd either message me, or if not we'd probably see each other at their house soon anyway.
After a few agonising days of no response, I went to their house to hang out with them. The newlywed wasn't there, but her sister, their brother, and his girlfriend were. The four of us went on a walk, and as the other two lagged behind a bit at one point, it was the perfect moment to walk up to her and start the talk. She told me she liked my letter, but she still wants me to essentially forget about her and just end all contact with her. Saying that she changed a lot, etc. That hurt a lot, especially as things seemed so strong at the wedding. I tried to get her to share her reasoning, or change her mind, but I was so confused I barely knew what to say, so I tried to keep things friendly, while still trying to understand why.
When we returned, I went into the garden to collect my thoughts about what just happened. When I came back, the other two left somewhere and it was just me and her left in the living room, so we made ourselves some tea together. We got talking again, and again, things seemed fine, so I said "I guess we still know how to talk to each other" as a joke. I also added "if I don't get to speak to you again, congrats on your PHD". Then, things started changing. She said that we'll most likely talk again at some point or another, and she said she'll even unblock me on Facebook. She even told me that it wasn't her that blocked me really, rather, some undisclosed friend pressured her into doing it. And overall the visit ended on a very positive note, compared to how it started.
And that's where we stand. Haven't spoken to either sister yet, though will most likely meet them again soon, so I wanted to know, what is even going on?! As someone with no experience in social situations like this, I have no idea how to read it or what to do next. So any advice on next steps to rebuilding friendships with both of them. I also gotta admit that the odds of us being in a relationship are fairly non-existent now, so any ideas on how to begin looking elsewhere, would also be welcome, especially as I have no real opportunities do even meet any at this point in my life, with me not even having any reasons nowadays to leave the house for anything.
I've always been a pretty lonely person. I've never had a girlfriend despite already being 22, and I've never really had much in terms of friends. In fact, I only really had two people I actually thought of as friends for my entire life, these two sisters that don't even live in the same country as me, but we've been this closely-knitted trio pretty much since we were toddlers, when our parents first introduced us to one another. So they were my best friends for pretty much all my life, but in the recent years I ended up really preferring to talk and hang out with one of them: the older sister. She was a lot more mature, very smart, charming, and she was always just a great person to hang out with. And we were still extremely close even though we just messaged each other from time to time and just met in-person a few times a year.
Eventually I grew to full-on love her and really wanting to spend the rest of my life with her. She was just the perfect person, we had so much in common, it just seemed natural. I tried to build up confidence over a few years to actually do it. And because I'm just so clueless when talking to people, and I wanted this to go and well as possible, I wanted to take my time. She also has never been in a relationship though, so I hoped that that will also at least make her standards a bit lower for these sorts of proposals.
One time when I went over to them, I feel like I made a good-enough script on what to say to her and I just built up enough confidence after so many years to ask her out. So with the excuse of going up to her room to check up on her and see how I was feeling, I was finally alone with her and ready to tell her that. I started out presenting her a gift I bought for her, this metal rose with a little plaque that said her name and "A rose for you". Roses are her favourite flower, and she even wants to give any future daughter the name Rose. After that I sat on the side of her bed and just went with my script.
She looked really taken in by what I was saying. After that she just went "wow, I really didn't expect that" as she continued to smile but clearly being stuck as to what to say. She eventually said my words were all very kind, and that it's just a lot to think about, and that she just has to think about it first.
Two days later when I visited their house again, I once again made an excuse to go up to her room and check up on her. We talked for a while about how she felt, before awkwardly getting back on topic. It was clear that none of us wanted to start that topic but I did. She just gave out a small chuckle as I went into it, reaffirming to her that's she's truly the best person I've ever met and how it would be an honour to be her boyfriend. However, she then began saying how it's all very sweet of me to say it and all, but she just won't be able to have the same feelings towards me, and she sees me more like a brother than anything. I tried to rescue the situation but to no avail. We just ended the conversation hugging it out, and me jokingly saying "well if you ever change your mind you know where to find me", and leaving her room. Just like that I felt my life shatter. It was supposed to all work out, I thought we would be happy together, but apparently not. And I was driving myself crazy thinking how I could've done it any better. I became even more of a wreck than before, unable to do anything, paralysed by the depressing thought that we'll most likely never be together, despite me thinking that so many things were telling me that it would work out. I just was frozen by grief and didn't know how to move on. And I also became anxious about how it would impact our friendship.
A few days later, at another visit at their house, when we had another moment alone, she said she just wants to go back to that conversation and ask me something. For a minute there I was hopeful that she changed her mind, but what she said was worse than anything I could imagine. She legit asked me if because of this, do I feel like distancing myself from her a bit, and if I will be fine still being close friends with her. I naturally said that of course not, I want things to stay as they are and I just want things to return to status quo between us. But for some reason she wasn't convinced I was telling her the truth.
A few more days pass, and in the middle of the night, I receive a message from her, saying that she basically never wants to see me or talk to me ever again. I was so confused as to why she was reacting like that, and why someone so smart and reasonable was now so eager to destroy a life-long friendship. So I asked if she's really sure about it, trying to remind her of all the good memories we have, and telling her how we really shouldn't sacrifice all of that just because of this. But what she said next truly broke me, and she did some awful stuff I'd never expect from someone so kind to the core, innocent and friendly. Firstly she tried to downplay our friendship to try and justify her breaking off contact with me. She literally said that we were never much more than "mates", and was talking a lot about how we were never really that close. Even though just days ago she said I was like a "brother" to her, and I still have messages from her from not so long ago, when she says that she considers me her best friend, and how she loves how much we have in common and how close we are. So that already was very fishy. For someone so kind, someone who hates causing a fuss, and someone so rational, it all just fell off. In that moment she felt like a completely different person. Granted I always seen that she did have some trouble with her emotions sometimes. Plus similar to me she's just kind of a shy person, so I wouldn't imagine she'd ever want to make thins so awkward.
A few days later, after my return home, she messaged me again, saying how she really doesn't care for this friendship, saying not to talk to her, before blocking me on Facebook, the only means we had of messaging each other.
It got worse when I messaged her sister, asking her to help fix my friendship with the girl. I didn't think she even knew what was going on between us as I didn't tell her before and I thought that the girl I asked out would be too awkward to say what was going on either. So I just texted her saying that I need her help fixing our friendship, and that our trio was at risk of falling apart. I didn't tell her the reason for it all yet, the fact I asked out her sister, just wanted to make sure that's she's interested first. I was hoping to get a response saying that's she ready to help in whatever this is. but instead she sent me a short novel-worth of text, saying I'm somehow being childish and playing dumb games, how she supports her sister's decision, and that my behaviour crossed all lines. I was really confused and depressed by this, I never expected to all of a sudden see both of the closest people in my life to be so hostile towards me. But what was also off was the fact that none of the "accusations" made any sense in context of what was going on, and I didn't do anything of what she accused me of. This lead me to maybe believe that that sister I asked out could be even feeding her the wrong information, or for some reason interpreted me simply not wanting to end such a good friendship, as something much worse. I tried to explain that to the sister, but she wouldn't listen. What I also just don't understand is why she outright refused to acknowledge when I said I will survive still being friends with her, it won't drive me to depression or anything. It's something I also asked the sister about, if the two genuinely think I'm so weak mentally or something that this will drive me insane or something, but again, she just refused to answer and just ignored that question.
As our parents were still friends, and at least mine knew nothing about the situation (don't know about theirs), we still visit their house to hang out. The next time we visited was extremely stressful, as I just didn't know where we stand at all, and I haven't spoken to either sister since the argument. I didn't speak much as is always the case, but the younger one was fairly fine with some small talk with me. The one I asked out, while she didn't speak to me at all, did at least smile and shake my hand and said goodbye when we were leaving (though she was very quick to stick out her hand for a handshake vs a hug which we usually did). That night, looking at her, I realised I couldn't let things end the way they did. After the visit, I messaged the younger sister to congratulate her on her recent engagement, something I didn't do at the visit (yes, she got engaged despite being just a month older than me, which certainly didn't make me feel better about myself, and just somehow made me sadder). I also realised I needed to do something about the the other sister as well.
As she blocked me, I decided to get in touch with her a different way, a letter. She loves things such as literature, letters, and anything classical, soft, and sentimental like that. I spent the next few months writing a letter, trying to put together something cohesive of the mess of thoughts in my mind over the situation. It was less of a love letter, wasn't even a "let's start anew" one really, just a rather non-committal "you made me such a better person, things were so great when we spoke, let's just maybe keep in touch". I was scared of pushing anything, so I wanted to leave the intent pretty open-ended. I even included some photos from the time they visited me for a few days. However, I just included photos of just the two sisters together, as I didn't want to push my luck and make it seem like I'm including them to go "oh look how happy the three of us were together".
I knew I'd eventually meet her at the wedding. We sat in the same pew, and I generally drifted around her, though we didn't speak, the only person I spoke to was one of their friends which I met before that also mostly stood around her or the sister, or their other friends.
At the wedding party, I was looking for any excuse to talk to her, but being my awkward self, I knew I wouldn't be able to just walk up to her. Instead, I decided to use an ace up my sleeve. My cousin happened to be the host/DJ of the party, so when the various games started, I wanted to ask him for a favour, and to orchestrate a scenario where I would get to chat or dance with her or something. However, before I had a chance to do that, the game began. The guys in one circle outside, and all the girls in another circle inside. Each circle would spin, the music would stop, girls would turn around, and the guys would have to do something (compliment, kiss on the hand, etc). And on the very final one, just as thought the game was over, my cousin announced the finale. The girls would have to turn around and dance with the guy. And guess who I just stopped in front of me. I could've never imagined more luck than that.
When she turned around, she did a small a awkward laugh, and I still didn't know where we stood, to be kind I just leaned in and told her that if she doesn't want to dance with me, it's fine and I get. However, she said it's fine, and my very first dance of my life was with her of all people. She said she got the letter, and that she wanted to talk to me about it. That made me pretty confident in the whole situation, however, as she was always away dancing or something, and I was mostly sat at my table just on my phone, we didn't have a chance to talk, though I couldn't tell if she was just trying to delay it on purpose. We did chat a bit more, about life in general, uni, and stuff, and she seemed like the old days again, the way she interacted with me. When I was saying goodbye to her when we were leaving, she told me she'd either message me, or if not we'd probably see each other at their house soon anyway.
After a few agonising days of no response, I went to their house to hang out with them. The newlywed wasn't there, but her sister, their brother, and his girlfriend were. The four of us went on a walk, and as the other two lagged behind a bit at one point, it was the perfect moment to walk up to her and start the talk. She told me she liked my letter, but she still wants me to essentially forget about her and just end all contact with her. Saying that she changed a lot, etc. That hurt a lot, especially as things seemed so strong at the wedding. I tried to get her to share her reasoning, or change her mind, but I was so confused I barely knew what to say, so I tried to keep things friendly, while still trying to understand why.
When we returned, I went into the garden to collect my thoughts about what just happened. When I came back, the other two left somewhere and it was just me and her left in the living room, so we made ourselves some tea together. We got talking again, and again, things seemed fine, so I said "I guess we still know how to talk to each other" as a joke. I also added "if I don't get to speak to you again, congrats on your PHD". Then, things started changing. She said that we'll most likely talk again at some point or another, and she said she'll even unblock me on Facebook. She even told me that it wasn't her that blocked me really, rather, some undisclosed friend pressured her into doing it. And overall the visit ended on a very positive note, compared to how it started.
And that's where we stand. Haven't spoken to either sister yet, though will most likely meet them again soon, so I wanted to know, what is even going on?! As someone with no experience in social situations like this, I have no idea how to read it or what to do next. So any advice on next steps to rebuilding friendships with both of them. I also gotta admit that the odds of us being in a relationship are fairly non-existent now, so any ideas on how to begin looking elsewhere, would also be welcome, especially as I have no real opportunities do even meet any at this point in my life, with me not even having any reasons nowadays to leave the house for anything.
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That's a really interesting story OP, it could end up being a great novel 🙂 I kind of expected it to end with the blocking and that's it as usually is the case but it was interesting that there was more.
I think that initially it may be the case that the girl finds it awkward being with a guy who she knows has feelings for her but she doesn't feel she can return at least at that time. My gf said to me after asking me how I felt about her (I said I wanted a relationship with her) to her relief that if I had not then that would be it over a she doesn't do male friends for that reason. It's pretty stark but I guess despite the hard cut off and no doubt pain it tells where people stand and they are forced to move on.
It's interesting here that she backed off at the end where you were almost kicking her to the curb. It could well be that she isn't all that happy to end the friendship but felt she had to for the best. Possibly she might have received some advice from her friend(s) that this was for the best and the only way.
Up to you, but I think just let things settle from here and not be too concerned about pursuing it. I think you are right to move on and go after a relationship with another woman as that was your original hope but of course with it not working out with this woman.
I think that initially it may be the case that the girl finds it awkward being with a guy who she knows has feelings for her but she doesn't feel she can return at least at that time. My gf said to me after asking me how I felt about her (I said I wanted a relationship with her) to her relief that if I had not then that would be it over a she doesn't do male friends for that reason. It's pretty stark but I guess despite the hard cut off and no doubt pain it tells where people stand and they are forced to move on.
It's interesting here that she backed off at the end where you were almost kicking her to the curb. It could well be that she isn't all that happy to end the friendship but felt she had to for the best. Possibly she might have received some advice from her friend(s) that this was for the best and the only way.
Up to you, but I think just let things settle from here and not be too concerned about pursuing it. I think you are right to move on and go after a relationship with another woman as that was your original hope but of course with it not working out with this woman.
I would look online at foreign dating sites if I were you, they may have the women you are looking for.
She may have been interested in you as a friendly acquaintance, but clearly not for romance. What you describe is well over the top and it’s quite likely it will end up with you being reported to the police for harassment if you continue. Back off, calm down and get looking for someone else who is interested
"I'm just so clueless when talking to people"
Fix this! Do that and everything in your love life will be so much easier.
Another thing to fix is your whole frame when it comes to what you think is attractive speech and behaviour for women. IE cut out all the typical nice guy mistakes you've been making.
Being clueless when talking to people might be considered cute and sweet in a 2 year old. In a 22 year old it's pathetic. Sorry to be abrupt, but it's "tough love" that will benefit you the most right now. Molly coddling has gotten you to the stage where you're at now.
These 2 women that you know are totally unimportant compared to you fixing your man to woman communication skills.
Check out Bobby Rio and Dan Bacon and Dating Advice 4 Men Who Love Women on youtube for different flavours of the same advice. And then go ahead and get mixing with and speaking with as many men and women as you can.
Fix this! Do that and everything in your love life will be so much easier.
Another thing to fix is your whole frame when it comes to what you think is attractive speech and behaviour for women. IE cut out all the typical nice guy mistakes you've been making.
Being clueless when talking to people might be considered cute and sweet in a 2 year old. In a 22 year old it's pathetic. Sorry to be abrupt, but it's "tough love" that will benefit you the most right now. Molly coddling has gotten you to the stage where you're at now.
These 2 women that you know are totally unimportant compared to you fixing your man to woman communication skills.
Check out Bobby Rio and Dan Bacon and Dating Advice 4 Men Who Love Women on youtube for different flavours of the same advice. And then go ahead and get mixing with and speaking with as many men and women as you can.
Original post by Anonymous #2
That's a really interesting story OP, it could end up being a great novel 🙂 I kind of expected it to end with the blocking and that's it as usually is the case but it was interesting that there was more.
I think that initially it may be the case that the girl finds it awkward being with a guy who she knows has feelings for her but she doesn't feel she can return at least at that time. My gf said to me after asking me how I felt about her (I said I wanted a relationship with her) to her relief that if I had not then that would be it over a she doesn't do male friends for that reason. It's pretty stark but I guess despite the hard cut off and no doubt pain it tells where people stand and they are forced to move on.
It's interesting here that she backed off at the end where you were almost kicking her to the curb. It could well be that she isn't all that happy to end the friendship but felt she had to for the best. Possibly she might have received some advice from her friend(s) that this was for the best and the only way.
Up to you, but I think just let things settle from here and not be too concerned about pursuing it. I think you are right to move on and go after a relationship with another woman as that was your original hope but of course with it not working out with this woman.
I think that initially it may be the case that the girl finds it awkward being with a guy who she knows has feelings for her but she doesn't feel she can return at least at that time. My gf said to me after asking me how I felt about her (I said I wanted a relationship with her) to her relief that if I had not then that would be it over a she doesn't do male friends for that reason. It's pretty stark but I guess despite the hard cut off and no doubt pain it tells where people stand and they are forced to move on.
It's interesting here that she backed off at the end where you were almost kicking her to the curb. It could well be that she isn't all that happy to end the friendship but felt she had to for the best. Possibly she might have received some advice from her friend(s) that this was for the best and the only way.
Up to you, but I think just let things settle from here and not be too concerned about pursuing it. I think you are right to move on and go after a relationship with another woman as that was your original hope but of course with it not working out with this woman.
So what exactly can I do on our next visit then, as I still have really idea where we really stand after all of this. And as much as I'd like to "move on", I wouldn't know where to start looking next, and this was pretty much my last chance at both a relationship and an actual deep friendship.
Original post by Anonymous #1
So what exactly can I do on our next visit then, as I still have really idea where we really stand after all of this. And as much as I'd like to "move on", I wouldn't know where to start looking next, and this was pretty much my last chance at both a relationship and an actual deep friendship.
Hi there OP.
I am not sure that person is interested in you.
You can keep trying if you want. But I am not sure she will ever change her mind.
Plus, you saw another side of her, that was immature and a bit toxic.
Do not let your emotions, feelings cloud your judgement.
Because I am not sure this person is the right one for you.
But at the end of the day, your life your choice.
Original post by Ackhnologia
Hi there OP.
I am not sure that person is interested in you.
You can keep trying if you want. But I am not sure she will ever change her mind.
Plus, you saw another side of her, that was immature and a bit toxic.
Do not let your emotions, feelings cloud your judgement.
Because I am not sure this person is the right one for you.
But at the end of the day, your life your choice.
I am not sure that person is interested in you.
You can keep trying if you want. But I am not sure she will ever change her mind.
Plus, you saw another side of her, that was immature and a bit toxic.
Do not let your emotions, feelings cloud your judgement.
Because I am not sure this person is the right one for you.
But at the end of the day, your life your choice.
I mean we have been friends for most of our lives, plus it's not like I have any other chances at having friends.
Original post by Anonymous #1
I mean we have been friends for most of our lives, plus it's not like I have any other chances at having friends.
Opportunity is all around you. It's down to you whether you take advantage of your opportunities or not.
Original post by Anonymous #1
I mean we have been friends for most of our lives, plus it's not like I have any other chances at having friends.
If you want to go for it
Then go for it.
@londonmyst
Any advice? Because I definitely feel like the woman op is talking about is not into him. But op seems to keep going.
This woman is not interested in dating you and does not sound at all friendly.
You need to steer clear of her and avoid any communication, whether she initiates them or not.
She, her sister and maybe some of her friends seem to be struggling to collectively decide whether to view you as a harassing pesky creep or someone to keep as a backup friend option when very bored.
If you don't keep your distance from her you are at a high risk of acquiring the reputation of a creep and being reported for harassing her by one or all of them.
End all communication with her.
Move on and start getting to know compatible single women who are willing to consider dating you.
You need to steer clear of her and avoid any communication, whether she initiates them or not.
She, her sister and maybe some of her friends seem to be struggling to collectively decide whether to view you as a harassing pesky creep or someone to keep as a backup friend option when very bored.
If you don't keep your distance from her you are at a high risk of acquiring the reputation of a creep and being reported for harassing her by one or all of them.
End all communication with her.
Move on and start getting to know compatible single women who are willing to consider dating you.
Original post by londonmyst
This woman is not interested in dating you and does not sound at all friendly.
You need to steer clear of her and avoid any communication, whether she initiates them or not.
She, her sister and maybe some of her friends seem to be struggling to collectively decide whether to view you as a harassing pesky creep or someone to keep as a backup friend option when very bored.
If you don't keep your distance from her you are at a high risk of acquiring the reputation of a creep and being reported for harassing her by one or all of them.
End all communication with her.
Move on and start getting to know compatible single women who are willing to consider dating you.
You need to steer clear of her and avoid any communication, whether she initiates them or not.
She, her sister and maybe some of her friends seem to be struggling to collectively decide whether to view you as a harassing pesky creep or someone to keep as a backup friend option when very bored.
If you don't keep your distance from her you are at a high risk of acquiring the reputation of a creep and being reported for harassing her by one or all of them.
End all communication with her.
Move on and start getting to know compatible single women who are willing to consider dating you.
How someone could even reach such a ludicrous conclusion after that is beyond me...
Original post by Anonymous #1
How someone could even reach such a ludicrous conclusion after that is beyond me...
That woman was interested in you, till you made just about every "typical nice guy" mistake in the book.
The trouble with making so many typical nice guy mistakes is that kills the attraction she had in you.
You're now compounding this by acting in a clingy, socially uncalibrated way.
When I was 18 I made the same mistakes as you with one particular girl. They were a big learning experience.
One thing you will learn from being on this forum is that londonmyst's advice is as sound as the Bank of England.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
That woman was interested in you, till you made just about every "typical nice guy" mistake in the book.
The trouble with making so many typical nice guy mistakes is that kills the attraction she had in you.
You're now compounding this by acting in a clingy, socially uncalibrated way.
When I was 18 I made the same mistakes as you with one particular girl. They were a big learning experience.
One thing you will learn from being on this forum is that londonmyst's advice is as sound as the Bank of England.
The trouble with making so many typical nice guy mistakes is that kills the attraction she had in you.
You're now compounding this by acting in a clingy, socially uncalibrated way.
When I was 18 I made the same mistakes as you with one particular girl. They were a big learning experience.
One thing you will learn from being on this forum is that londonmyst's advice is as sound as the Bank of England.
I gathered it's not sound at all already, alongside most of what is being said in this thread. More unhinged than anything.
One of those "tell me what I want to hear" threads then.
The lady in question made her position abundantly clear and you dogged her anyway. I'm not sure what you would have accepted as a no if you received all those responses and thought "a letter, that's what I need to do".
Agree with londonmyst, you need to back off before this escalates.
The lady in question made her position abundantly clear and you dogged her anyway. I'm not sure what you would have accepted as a no if you received all those responses and thought "a letter, that's what I need to do".
Agree with londonmyst, you need to back off before this escalates.
I've never had a girlfriend despite already being 22
We're trying to help you. It would put a smile on my face if you were to report back on this thread and tell us that you had a girlfriend.
I've never really had much in terms of friends. In fact, I only really had two people
You're coming from a position of scarcity. We're trying to lead you to the land of abundance.
She was a lot more mature, very smart, charming, and she was always just a great person to hang out with.
People like people who are how they'd like to be. This is a fundamental rule of human friendship. You like her because she's how you'd like to be.
Do you think that she would want to be like you? Would she want to be like someone that has only two friends?
Eventually I grew to full-on love her and really wanting to spend the rest of my life with her.
You haven't had sex with her yet. What if the 2 of you are sexually incompatible? Would you want to spend the rest of your life with her in that case? Never ever think that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone until you've lived as man and wife with them for 6 months - and it looks like it's "all (major) systems go".
I'm just so clueless when talking to people,
That is the main issue that you should be addressing here. Not this particular woman. You becoming competent at talking to people is the key that will unlock the door to you having a girlfriend.
I wanted to take my time.
Never hesitate when it comes to love. I've had the rug pulled from under my feet a few times when another guy has come in and swept up a woman I was interested in.
She also has never been in a relationship though, so I hoped that that will also at least make her standards a bit lower for these sorts of proposals.
The reality is that virgins tend to be more guarded when it comes to starting a sexual relationship with someone.
I was finally alone with her and ready to tell her that. I started out presenting her a gift
Typical nice guy mistake. That gift in that context made you come across as needy / desperate / cringey / over-supplicating.
After that I sat on the side of her bed and just went with my script.
Another typical nice guy mistake. Reciting words from a script was too heavy. Love is light. Love is fun.
she continued to smile but clearly being stuck as to what to say.
You put her under too much pressure. Aim for a lot lower pressure sales pitch in future.
me jokingly saying "well if you ever change your mind you know where to find me",
Another typical nice guy mistake. When a woman knows she can have you, her attraction for you declines. It's the cat string theory. Give her something attention grabbing to chase that she can get sometimes, but can never fully 100% conquer.
Just like that I felt my life shatter.
Typical nice guy mistake. If your life shatters because of 1 rejection from 1 girl, then your whole mindset is fubar.
I was driving myself crazy thinking how I could've done it any better.
What conclusions did you come to? If you concluded that you should have gotten her a better present and pleaded with her more, you arrived at the wrong conclusions.
I became even more of a wreck than before,
Whoah! Hang on! You were somewhat of a wreck before this incident? And you think that this wonderful woman should be your girlfriend? How lacking in empathy for her is that?!
She legit asked me if because of this, do I feel like distancing myself from her a bit, and if I will be fine still being close friends with her. I naturally said that of course not, I want things to stay as they are and I just want things to return to status quo between us. But for some reason she wasn't convinced I was telling her the truth.
You crossed the Rubicon when you recited your script. Things will never be the same between the 2 of you.
So I asked if she's really sure about it, trying to remind her of all the good memories we have, and telling her how we really shouldn't sacrifice all of that just because of this.
Typical nice guy mistake. More pleading. More trying to change her mind, when you should have been trying to change her mood. You should have apologised for your script recital and then reverted to happy go lucky, good fun, platonic friend mode.
I decided to get in touch with her a different way, a letter.
Typical nice guy mistake. Letters suck in this situation. Because you lose tone of voice. Being with someone in person and acting like a cool, charming, light hearted, fun loving, masculine guy is the best way to change their emotions about you.
the only person I spoke to was one of their friends which I met before that also mostly stood around her or the sister, or their other friends.At the wedding party,
Another mistake. At the wedding you should have been talking with anyone and everyone, because it's that kind of social event.
I just leaned in and told her that if she doesn't want to dance with me, it's fine and I get.
Typical nice guy mistake. Never talk yourself down.
I was mostly sat at my table just on my phone,
...being anti-social at a wedding...
especially as things seemed so strong at the wedding.
Might have seemed strong to you. To her you would have seemed like a loser at the wedding.
Edit: and with hindsight, this platonic relationship that you had with these girls was golden. Because they will have female friends. Friends that they could introduce you to. That sort of friendship is sooooo valuable that it wasn't worth you taking the risk of trying to convert one of them into your girlfriend. Especially bearing in mind that you're a novice when it comes to dating, which comes with a very high chance of you failing to get her into bed with you.
What you should have done is made it apparent you were open to dating, but not dating them. Because they're your homies. And it would almost be like incest.
You might be able to repair the platonic friendship. If you can demonstrate to her that you realise you mucked up, that she was dead right for rejecting you, that you've learnt from it, that you won't be making a move on her again, that you're a better, cooler guy now.
We're trying to help you. It would put a smile on my face if you were to report back on this thread and tell us that you had a girlfriend.
I've never really had much in terms of friends. In fact, I only really had two people
You're coming from a position of scarcity. We're trying to lead you to the land of abundance.
She was a lot more mature, very smart, charming, and she was always just a great person to hang out with.
People like people who are how they'd like to be. This is a fundamental rule of human friendship. You like her because she's how you'd like to be.
Do you think that she would want to be like you? Would she want to be like someone that has only two friends?
Eventually I grew to full-on love her and really wanting to spend the rest of my life with her.
You haven't had sex with her yet. What if the 2 of you are sexually incompatible? Would you want to spend the rest of your life with her in that case? Never ever think that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone until you've lived as man and wife with them for 6 months - and it looks like it's "all (major) systems go".
I'm just so clueless when talking to people,
That is the main issue that you should be addressing here. Not this particular woman. You becoming competent at talking to people is the key that will unlock the door to you having a girlfriend.
I wanted to take my time.
Never hesitate when it comes to love. I've had the rug pulled from under my feet a few times when another guy has come in and swept up a woman I was interested in.
She also has never been in a relationship though, so I hoped that that will also at least make her standards a bit lower for these sorts of proposals.
The reality is that virgins tend to be more guarded when it comes to starting a sexual relationship with someone.
I was finally alone with her and ready to tell her that. I started out presenting her a gift
Typical nice guy mistake. That gift in that context made you come across as needy / desperate / cringey / over-supplicating.
After that I sat on the side of her bed and just went with my script.
Another typical nice guy mistake. Reciting words from a script was too heavy. Love is light. Love is fun.
she continued to smile but clearly being stuck as to what to say.
You put her under too much pressure. Aim for a lot lower pressure sales pitch in future.
me jokingly saying "well if you ever change your mind you know where to find me",
Another typical nice guy mistake. When a woman knows she can have you, her attraction for you declines. It's the cat string theory. Give her something attention grabbing to chase that she can get sometimes, but can never fully 100% conquer.
Just like that I felt my life shatter.
Typical nice guy mistake. If your life shatters because of 1 rejection from 1 girl, then your whole mindset is fubar.
I was driving myself crazy thinking how I could've done it any better.
What conclusions did you come to? If you concluded that you should have gotten her a better present and pleaded with her more, you arrived at the wrong conclusions.
I became even more of a wreck than before,
Whoah! Hang on! You were somewhat of a wreck before this incident? And you think that this wonderful woman should be your girlfriend? How lacking in empathy for her is that?!
She legit asked me if because of this, do I feel like distancing myself from her a bit, and if I will be fine still being close friends with her. I naturally said that of course not, I want things to stay as they are and I just want things to return to status quo between us. But for some reason she wasn't convinced I was telling her the truth.
You crossed the Rubicon when you recited your script. Things will never be the same between the 2 of you.
So I asked if she's really sure about it, trying to remind her of all the good memories we have, and telling her how we really shouldn't sacrifice all of that just because of this.
Typical nice guy mistake. More pleading. More trying to change her mind, when you should have been trying to change her mood. You should have apologised for your script recital and then reverted to happy go lucky, good fun, platonic friend mode.
I decided to get in touch with her a different way, a letter.
Typical nice guy mistake. Letters suck in this situation. Because you lose tone of voice. Being with someone in person and acting like a cool, charming, light hearted, fun loving, masculine guy is the best way to change their emotions about you.
the only person I spoke to was one of their friends which I met before that also mostly stood around her or the sister, or their other friends.At the wedding party,
Another mistake. At the wedding you should have been talking with anyone and everyone, because it's that kind of social event.
I just leaned in and told her that if she doesn't want to dance with me, it's fine and I get.
Typical nice guy mistake. Never talk yourself down.
I was mostly sat at my table just on my phone,
...being anti-social at a wedding...
especially as things seemed so strong at the wedding.
Might have seemed strong to you. To her you would have seemed like a loser at the wedding.
Edit: and with hindsight, this platonic relationship that you had with these girls was golden. Because they will have female friends. Friends that they could introduce you to. That sort of friendship is sooooo valuable that it wasn't worth you taking the risk of trying to convert one of them into your girlfriend. Especially bearing in mind that you're a novice when it comes to dating, which comes with a very high chance of you failing to get her into bed with you.
What you should have done is made it apparent you were open to dating, but not dating them. Because they're your homies. And it would almost be like incest.
You might be able to repair the platonic friendship. If you can demonstrate to her that you realise you mucked up, that she was dead right for rejecting you, that you've learnt from it, that you won't be making a move on her again, that you're a better, cooler guy now.
(edited 5 months ago)
Original post by Admit-One
One of those "tell me what I want to hear" threads then.
The lady in question made her position abundantly clear and you dogged her anyway. I'm not sure what you would have accepted as a no if you received all those responses and thought "a letter, that's what I need to do".
Agree with londonmyst, you need to back off before this escalates.
The lady in question made her position abundantly clear and you dogged her anyway. I'm not sure what you would have accepted as a no if you received all those responses and thought "a letter, that's what I need to do".
Agree with londonmyst, you need to back off before this escalates.
Am I going crazy or has no one actually read down to the part where I said she still wants to talk to me? Or is this some cultural difference or metoo thing where wanting to be friends with someone is enough to get reported lol
Original post by Anonymous
Am I going crazy or has no one actually read down to the part where I said she still wants to talk to me? Or is this some cultural difference or metoo thing where wanting to be friends with someone is enough to get reported lol
Yeah, read the whole thing and was dismayed by your behaviour.
Original post by Admit-One
Yeah, read the whole thing and was dismayed by your behaviour.
Sounds like a you problem then. I may not be the best at anything social but misreading so much is something else. Maybe it's just the fact it's just a retelling without anyonere here being there.
Original post by Anonymous #1
Sounds like a you problem then. I may not be the best at anything social but misreading so much is something else. Maybe it's just the fact it's just a retelling without anyonere here being there.
they are just caring for you. be friends but increase self esteem to leave her. you know why many people get SURPRISED even if they knew that person has interest in them ? THEY NEVER HAD ASSUMED . LEAVE AND WORK ON YOURSELF THERE ARE LOTS OF GIRLS YOU CANT IMAGINE RIGHT NOW. we think that our girl is the best one that will anyone have but ONLY UNTILL randomly we notice someone
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