Major problem- not sure whether medicine is for me anymore.

Which is why Edinburgh (and many others) almost always demand long term volunteer work for entry! Shadowing an HCA in first year as Wangers suggests would be redundant if this kind of thing is required for admission. And obviously isn't enough to stop some people changing their mind later on.

You know, sometimes I think instead of PDS, fresher medics should be paid to do a morning of HCAing a week, it helps out with NHS staffing, it forces you to communicate, and it lets those who may not find themselves suited to the environment an early out option with grace.

HCAing ftw. Defs about communication, experience & environment...

More than a morning a week - work fulltime all shifts - very early starts, long days, nights. Can see what HCAs and nurses really have to do!

Not sure about motvation

----

Volunteer work and shadowing are not the same as actually working as an HCA and being part of the team. You need to work full time and be treated as an HCA, not as a medical student shadowing someone.

Frankly I'd sooner smoke my own toenails.

It's a paid job and get to see old colleagues, so yeah it's not bad actually. Can be damn hard work though

Money always helps, meeting up with old colleagues is also generally nice.

The idea of doing HCA shifts as a compulsory part of medical school though seems completely and utterly ridiculous to me. The only plus side to it I can think of would be the money, which one can assume they would remove if working was compulsory for progression along ones course.

Oh I don't want them to shadow a HCA, I want them to be a HCA!

My bad, I did understand, just brain and hands thinking different things. I agree with terp, it would be daft - this is something you should have done before entry. The university has better things to do than organise a job for students. It wouldn't be paid - there would be far too much admin there what with international students/tax/HCA unions complaining we were "stealing" work.

The only plus side to it I can think of would be the money

//creeps back into forum that is not for her...

I fail to see how being an HCA could deplete your knowledge - it can only add to it. I've learned an awful lot about patients' hour-by-hour experience in the hospital (which you cannot possibly have time to do as a doctor) through being there with them, and what aspects of their stay are really important to them. If you do a lot of hours, you also get an excellent idea of how difficult it is to stay on your feet, keep going and motivated all day!! I've also smelt every kind of poo, seen every kind of gory wound, and been subject to the breath of someone with oral thrush (which was actually the nastiest thing I've ever smelt, even topping C. Diff), and eaten food whilst talking about stoma bags - my stomach is now sturdy You learn a lot about that horrible word 'communication': how to make someone feel more at ease and more comfortable, and how to explain things to them in a way that they will understand. It's amazing actually how little most 70+ year olds know about human biology - a lady I looked after last week didn't understand why she needed to keep her oxygen mask on, because she didn't know what oxygen is and why it's necessary. A lot of the time I feel patients aren't *really* giving informed consent because they haven't understood what the doctor has said, and they don't want to ask again (this is another "little old lady" phenomenon).

Working on surgical wards, I've met a lot of doctors who just seem to choose to ignore the human element of their profession. One doctor made two patients cry in a day, first by telling a 17 year old boy very tactlessly and abruptly that he might lose his leg, when no such possibility had been mentioned to him before, and then he disappeared off without giving the patient a chance to ask what he meant. Then he went and started throwing a patients' broken leg about like he didn't give two monkeys that he would hurt the patient. But because he's a doctor he gets to disappear off the ward and ignore the fact he's just left his patients confused, in pain, and in tears. I'd like to see him try that as an HCA then have to stay around and be with those patients for the rest of the shift. But then maybe that's why he's a surgeon

I think HCAing should be incorporated in a medical degree or requirement for admission somehow, but as everyone else has already pointed out this is logistically very difficult. I suppose a useful addition to this discussion would be input from someone who did HCAing and is now a doctor - who knows, they might think it was pointless! terpineol - I believe I've read somewhere you're not planning to go on and do clinical? If I've got that correct, do you think taking a gap year and being an HCA might have changed your mind about doing medicine before you started? Or is it some other element that has put you off?

(as for the creeping into forums that aren't yours, if you are going to post in such a thought out and sensible manner, nobody is going to mind)

You know, sometimes I think instead of PDS, fresher medics should be paid to do a morning of HCAing a week, it helps out with NHS staffing, it forces you to communicate, and it lets those who may not find themselves suited to the environment an early out option with grace.

//creeps back into forum that is not for her...

I fail to see how being an HCA could deplete your knowledge - it can only add to it. I've learned an awful lot about patients' hour-by-hour experience in the hospital (which you cannot possibly have time to do as a doctor) through being there with them, and what aspects of their stay are really important to them. If you do a lot of hours, you also get an excellent idea of how difficult it is to stay on your feet, keep going and motivated all day!! I've also smelt every kind of poo, seen every kind of gory wound, and been subject to the breath of someone with oral thrush (which was actually the nastiest thing I've ever smelt, even topping C. Diff), and eaten food whilst talking about stoma bags - my stomach is now sturdy You learn a lot about that horrible word 'communication': how to make someone feel more at ease and more comfortable, and how to explain things to them in a way that they will understand. It's amazing actually how little most 70+ year olds know about human biology - a lady I looked after last week didn't understand why she needed to keep her oxygen mask on, because she didn't know what oxygen is and why it's necessary. A lot of the time I feel patients aren't *really* giving informed consent because they haven't understood what the doctor has said, and they don't want to ask again (this is another "little old lady" phenomenon).

Working on surgical wards, I've met a lot of doctors who just seem to choose to ignore the human element of their profession. One doctor made two patients cry in a day, first by telling a 17 year old boy very tactlessly and abruptly that he might lose his leg, when no such possibility had been mentioned to him before, and then he disappeared off without giving the patient a chance to ask what he meant. Then he went and started throwing a patients' broken leg about like he didn't give two monkeys that he would hurt the patient. But because he's a doctor he gets to disappear off the ward and ignore the fact he's just left his patients confused, in pain, and in tears. I'd like to see him try that as an HCA then have to stay around and be with those patients for the rest of the shift. But then maybe that's why he's a surgeon

I think HCAing should be incorporated in a medical degree or requirement for admission somehow, but as everyone else has already pointed out this is logistically very difficult. I suppose a useful addition to this discussion would be input from someone who did HCAing and is now a doctor - who knows, they might think it was pointless! terpineol - I believe I've read somewhere you're not planning to go on and do clinical? If I've got that correct, do you think taking a gap year and being an HCA might have changed your mind about doing medicine before you started? Or is it some other element that has put you off?

I agree/disagree...

instead i think in the first 3 years of a medical degree you should spend placements with different members of the MDT, for example nursing staff, dieticians, physios etc. As a nurse its helped me loads to spend time with them and appreciate the knowledge they have and gave me a lot of respect for them

In no way do I mean this as an attack on physios, nurses, pharmacists (who actually are good fun), etc but...

We spend an afternoon a fortnight on such placements.

It only seems to fuel resentment that we loose our lunchbreak and 5 hours of useful time to watch a nurse taking blood all afternoon.

If one tries to ask questions along the lines of "why are you doing that", or "is that because of..." or even "why do you not..." you only ever seem to get a grunt and "its your job to know that, we just do it because its what you do" back.

Naturally this has left many of us with the impression that nurses etc are semi pre programmed robots with no capacity for independent thought or reason.

I really do hope I'm horribly wrong in that conclusion, but thus far that is all such placements have taught me (aside from marginally improving my tea making technique).

We did some plecements of this sort in 3rd year. My experience was that they vary in quality. We were lucky to be offered a great selection of different placements to choose from. I was careful what to pick and have got quite a bit out of it. For example I have learnt how to examine diabetic feet properly and did an intermidiate level smoking cassation course. I have spent a day with phlebotomist but rather then observe her I was taking bloods myself. She watched me for a first few and then just let me get on with it making herself available to advice if I got stuck. By the end of the day I felt much more confident at venopuncture and I still use all the handy tips she had given me. Some people had absolutely awful time though being expected for example to stack up shelves all day long on their pharmacy plecement.

We spend a week with nurses at the start of the first year. I was lucky that sister quickly realised that after 2 years of HCAing my bed making skills were fine art and that I was perfectly competent at washing and feeding and allowed me to take part in drug rounds, prepering IVs etc instead which again was very useful.

and pharmacists...FUN?! are we on the right planet..