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    (Original post by Pr!ya)
    Yeah but there is such a fine line between confidence and arrogance that confidence is often misinterpreted as arrogance which is why people feel the need to be modest.
    But like I said before it is wrong that people are forced to be modest when they have a talent, just because they don't want to appear arrogant.
    I see. Yeah, I know what you mean. Unfortunatly personal judgement is always going to come into play, and many people would get misunderstood. Nothing can really be done about that though.
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    (Original post by crazylemon)
    What?

    You can be confident and modest at the same time.
    i'm sure you can. i said almost invariably. This is my opinion.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i'm sure you can. i said almost invariably. This is my opinion.
    I would disagree.

    Most of the people I know that are modest tend to have confidence in their abilities (personally I don't because I have a tendency to underestimate what I can do, or so I am told, but that is because of me not because of any social conditioning)
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i hate modesty. i have always thought that people who have talents or good fortune should be proud of that....it is unfair, illogical and self destuctive that our society thinks people should basically be embarassed about their strengths...it's an insult to the brilliant and a terrible message to send to the young.

    why should you be modest? how can it be a good thing to play yourself down just to make less talented people feel better? this is unnatural and stupid and annoys me.

    ''people with money never talk about it''....this is often said by poor people to make them feel better about wealthy people who have dared to be at all proud of their achievments, how darew they, it proves that modesty is only a way of making less able people feel better. personally, i think this is horrible. modesty is ugly and the clever, wealthy, successful and such should have the right to be proud about their greatness and feel free to shout it from the rooftops.

    envy is an equally disgusting trait and it is the driving force between the pressure on people to be modest imo.
    Basically, I think you're wrong about everything you've said. You do realise that talent does not equate to success or future success? You think that luck doesn't exist in the world? Why would you feel a need to express how wealthy you are in the first place? If it makes you feel better than everyone else then the simple fact is that you are not rich in comparison to the rest of the world whatsoever. The rich people of the world don't have to tell people they are rich, because it is already a well known fact. Only the wannnabes boast about their wealth.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i hate modesty. i have always thought that people who have talents or good fortune should be proud of that....it is unfair, illogical and self destuctive that our society thinks people should basically be embarassed about their strengths...it's an insult to the brilliant and a terrible message to send to the young.

    You don't get it.
    Modesty isn't about being embarrassed about your achievements, it's about having the common sense not to be arrogant about it and shove it in people's faces.
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    (Original post by chidona)
    You don't get it.
    Modesty isn't about being embarrassed about your achievements, it's about having the common sense not to be arrogant about it and shove it in people's faces.
    alot of us have said that but he still doesn't get it :sigh:
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    (Original post by Fynch101)
    Basically, I think you're wrong about everything you've said. You do realise that talent does not equate to success or future success? You think that luck doesn't exist in the world? Why would you feel a need to express how wealthy you are in the first place? If it makes you feel better than everyone else then the simple fact is that you are not rich in comparison to the rest of the world whatsoever. The rich people of the world don't have to tell people they are rich, because it is already a well known fact. Only the wannnabes boast about their wealth.
    i know talent and success dont always equate. you can still be proud of either or both at the same time.

    i've already accepted that you can be wealthy through luck. but i dont think people should be made to feel bad about that luck. as a very poor individual indeed i think that if somebody is lucky enough to inherit great wealth then that luck should not be taken away from them or derided just to appease the less fortunate. so what if they are rich kids? ******* good for them lol how can that be a bad thing? would you rather they were poor? that's a bit like starving the western world because africa is a poor country with little food...rather than trying to find a way to make africa bettr off
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    pride comes before a fall
    so modesty's the safe option
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    Modesty is great, but I suppose it can be bad when people do it to get compliments, e.g. 'I'm crap at art,' when you're the best in the class... that pisses me off.
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    (Original post by chidona)
    You don't get it.
    Modesty isn't about being embarrassed about your achievements, it's about having the common sense not to be arrogant about it and shove it in people's faces.
    you don't get it.

    I am not saying anything needs to be shoved down anyone's throats.

    i'm saying that it is silly when people are scared to even touch any reference to their brightness, success or talent/skills in public with a bargepole because they are terrfied of being called arrogant when they are actually just confident. i actually said in a post that when confidence becomes a harmful arrogance it is not a good thing. i think you and others are taking what i said to an extreme rather than observing the limits i have said should exist to it.
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    Put it this way. Which of the following conversations makes you like person B more...

    A: Hey, you're an amazing pianist
    B: Thank you, but I could be better

    ~

    A: Hey, you're an amazing pianist.
    B: Yes. I know.

    Modesty is a lovely thing. The exceptionally talented people I know are not pushing their successes in everyone's faces. They are aware of their relative success in the grand scheme of things. People who are immodest aren't.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i know talent and success dont always equate. you can still be proud of either or both at the same time.

    i've already accepted that you can be wealthy through luck. but i dont think people should be made to feel bad about that luck. as a very poor individual indeed i think that if somebody is lucky enough to inherit great wealth then that luck should not be taken away from them or derided just to appease the less fortunate. so what if they are rich kids? ******* good for them lol how can that be a bad thing? would you rather they were poor? that's a bit like starving the western world because africa is a poor country with little food...rather than trying to find a way to make africa bettr off
    No but you seem to think that wealth is there for boasting about. It would be extremely rude to boast about your wealth infront of people who havn't had the same oppurtunities in life. How do you think it makes them feel? If you want to be rich so you can impose that wealth on others, then you want to be rich for the wrong reasons.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    you don't get it.

    I am not saying anything needs to be shoved down anyone's throats.

    i'm saying that it is silly when people are scared to even touch any reference to their brightness, success or talent/skills in public with a bargepole because they are terrfied of being called arrogant when they are actually just confident. i actually said in a post that when confidence becomes a harmful arrogance it is not a good thing. i think you and others are taking what i said to an extreme rather than observing the limits i have said should exist to it.
    No.

    The definition of 'modest' is:

    'Having or showing a moderate estimation of one's own talents, abilities, and value.'

    It is not us who have taken the issue to an extreme, I'm afraid it is you (or, at the very least, that is what your initial post implies) who have taken the definition of 'modest' to an incredible, definition-busting extreme. It sounds more like you're referring to shyness rather than modesty.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    how can it be a good thing ... to make people feel better?
    Inconceivable.
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    (Original post by PAPAdawg)
    i think modesty is a socially induced form of emabrrass or shame. in the sense that we are told by british society that if you are talented or successful you must be modest....this is a form of shame/embarrassment, albeit an unnatural one (as it is a result of toehr people's attiudes and not the individuals intrinsic feeling)
    I don't believe society encourages modesty but I believe some of us react to societies angle on modesty differently. Modesty is about respect, honour, a sense of nobleness or even protection from others (including friends or family). Modesty is not a form of embarrassment or shame. Modesty is a natural progression from this idea.

    Being in a more fortunate position in society does not mean you should automatically boast your wealth; what good does that do? If you already know you are wealthy, why do other people need to be aware of that 24/7? How do you think those who are stuck in an endless cycle of breadline poverty feel when they see those who openly flaunt their wealth?

    on a side note i'm actually very fortunate for my family inheritance is that of a significant fortune. me telling people is the last thing i want to do. Personal achievement should be kept just that; personal.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    That's why people think Jose Mourinho is a ****.
    He is. Might go down in southern europe but it's a bit sad up here saying I'm the special one.
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    I don't mind it in small doses, but, when I pay someone a compliment - and heartfelt compliments from me are rare, I wish they'd just accept it rather than brush it off.
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    (Original post by Chillaxer)
    He is. Might go down in southern europe but it's a bit sad up here saying I'm the special one.
    I thought I'd use Jose Mourinho as an example because money is too often equated with success on here. In football, a manager can be the 'head' and 'focus point' of a team that is not too popular amongst neutrals and be highly regarded if he acts well. I saw that with the limited time that Guus Hiddink was at my club at any rate.
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    Modesty is fine.
    Confidence in yourself is fine.
    Arrogance and showing off is just lame.
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    (Original post by ScillyRose)
    Modesty is a very British trait, it's part of our culture. We're loosening up a bit with all the American influences now thattechnology is so widespread, which as you say is probably a good thing, but a little modesty is a good thing to have, surely?
    Agreed. If you say to someone from Spain, Italy or the US that you're "ok" at something, they will probably take it from that "ok" perspective.
 
 
 
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