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    Read this article from the thread "Poorer student to get two grade head-start" and found a certain paragraph particularly interesting:

    He (Les Ebdon) added: "We have a real problem in this country. Our medical schools are full of very earnest young people from middle class backgrounds and then we find it very difficult to find , for example, GPs to go and work in working class areas.

    "Therefore we have got to do something to widen the social mix and traditionally medical schools have been seen as the preserve of middle classes rather than appealing across the whole spectrum of people."


    ---
    Is this true? I mean I thought about it and then said, well hey, I'm working class and sitting on an offer, but then again I might not get the grades. So maybe there's no discrimination in the application process but to get the grades of the offer is more difficult for those of us in an AVERAGE state comprehensive.

    Also my GP LOOKS working class lol don't ask how :rolleyes: but when I go to hospitals or see specialists like opthamologists (sp?) they're almost always blatantly middle class, with their certificates from oxbridge and their posh accents. But obviously you can't generalise and the statement in the article is completely absurd to say the least, but I'm wondering if 51%+ of med school students are from middle class backgrounds..
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    "They're almost always blatantly middle class, with their certificates from oxbridge and their posh accents."
    Uhm, I would have thought that would sort of mean they're upper class?

    What's wrong with middle class people anyway? :/
    I would have said that being a GP was a good example of a middle class job, along with things like teaching or managerial work. Working class jobs are technically supposed to be factory work or minimum wage jobs. Are you sure you aren't middle class and putting yourself in the wrong bracket? Although having said that, class divisions are so vague now that, I wouldn't bother trying to put yourself in a class at all.
    Perhaps it is to do with the grades...but my school is a selective voluntary aided school, and we do get people from all kinds of backgrounds, so regardless of money, you get a high standard of education, and there are many, many people who go on to do degrees in Medicine.
    I'm guessing that 'working class' people GENERALLY don't aspire to be doctors...chances are that their relatives aren't doctors, their neighbours aren't doctors and likewise, they don't have degrees, so being a doctor would appear to be an unobtainable goal, particularly if you go to a 'working class' school that achieves low grades. This is, of course, a massive generalization.

    Middle-class doctors should not have any problems whatsoever working in lower class areas, and that is a very selfish form of snobbery in a caring profession.
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    What do people mean by middle class? My parents don't have to work and still they can maintain the same lifestyle. does that make my family middle class?
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    Why does it even matter? Anyone can get the funding to attend medical school regardless of background, and I'm pretty sure the university won't discriminate against anyone
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    (Original post by Stanley90)

    ...

    Is this true? I mean I thought about it and then said, well hey, I'm working class and sitting on an offer, but then again I might not get the grades. So maybe there's no discrimination in the application process but to get the grades of the offer is more difficult for those of us in an AVERAGE state comprehensive.

    Also my GP LOOKS working class lol don't ask how :rolleyes: but when I go to hospitals or see specialists like opthamologists (sp?) they're almost always blatantly middle class, with their certificates from oxbridge and their posh accents. But obviously you can't generalise and the statement in the article is completely absurd to say the least, but I'm wondering if 51%+ of med school students are from middle class backgrounds..
    I will have both of these. I've spent about half of my life surviving on benefits.

    I would wonder whether there are enough students from working class who get offers and then don't make them to make up the whole of the misrepresentation.

    (Original post by missaphrodite)
    "They're almost always blatantly middle class, with their certificates from oxbridge and their posh accents."
    Uhm, I would have thought that would sort of mean they're upper class?

    What's wrong with middle class people anyway? :/
    I would have said that being a GP was a good example of a middle class job, along with things like teaching or managerial work. Working class jobs are technically supposed to be factory work or minimum wage jobs. Are you sure you aren't middle class and putting yourself in the wrong bracket? Although having said that, class divisions are so vague now that, I wouldn't bother trying to put yourself in a class at all.
    Perhaps it is to do with the grades...but my school is a selective voluntary aided school, and we do get people from all kinds of backgrounds, so regardless of money, you get a high standard of education, and there are many, many people who go on to do degrees in Medicine.
    I'm guessing that 'working class' people GENERALLY don't aspire to be doctors...chances are that their relatives aren't doctors, their neighbours aren't doctors and likewise, they don't have degrees, so being a doctor would appear to be an unobtainable goal, particularly if you go to a 'working class' school that achieves low grades. This is, of course, a massive generalization.

    Middle-class doctors should not have any problems whatsoever working in lower class areas, and that is a very selfish form of snobbery in a caring profession.
    Again, doesn't really make them upper class to have gone to Oxbridge and have a posh accent.

    I also think you've misunderstood the point. It's not a form of snobbery; regardless of your background you're going to want to treat the sort of people you've grown up socialising with. A middle class person would probably be more comfortable treating a middle classer and the same for working class.

    However, what they haven't factored in to the equation is that it's just not as appealing to work in the working class areas, which are often more deprived. That's why they're having to pay teachers to work in deprived areas (the 'golden handcuffs')! Given the choice between better working conditions and worse working conditions, which would you choose?
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    faced wif a five year degree, and relatively poor funding compared to other degrees, and the general difficulty of earning moneyu during medicine degrees which increases as you progress from year 2 to year 5, its really no wonder that a working class person is going to be less likely to go and study medicine.

    the alternative, studying a shorter course with more opportunities for funding, and sooner rather than later job prospects, or SIMPLY GOING TO GET A JOB are more realistic bets.

    its not that they wouldnt if they could, you know. of course they would, its just that a lot of them.

    You know how a middle class person (like most of you guys) miraculously reasons out that university is the path they MUST choose at 18, becos it makes the most sense?
    Well, in a similar, way, working class peeple will tend to reason out that a course like medicine ISNT the way to go in favour of other options.
    It not becos they dont want to do medicine initially. If thjey had the same opportunities they would. but as they begin to perceive the extra number of obstacles in their way that others dont face arent worth the extra effort, they select another path and tend to see medicine as something they dont want to do more and more, so that by the time they are 18, they dont want to do medicine.
    Given the same opportunities as us they would do it, and they'd keep 'old of the same ambitions that we have at 14 or 15 wiffout that distortion of perpective that obstacles bring about.


    OBVIOUSLY these are general trends, not applying to everyone (you need to make disclaimers like that on a forum like this lol),
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    (Original post by Stanley90)
    Read this article from the thread "Poorer student to get two grade head-start" and found a certain paragraph particularly interesting:

    He (Les Ebdon) added: "We have a real problem in this country. Our medical schools are full of very earnest young people from middle class backgrounds and then we find it very difficult to find , for example, GPs to go and work in working class areas.

    "Therefore we have got to do something to widen the social mix and traditionally medical schools have been seen as the preserve of middle classes rather than appealing across the whole spectrum of people."


    ---
    Is this true? I mean I thought about it and then said, well hey, I'm working class and sitting on an offer, but then again I might not get the grades. So maybe there's no discrimination in the application process but to get the grades of the offer is more difficult for those of us in an AVERAGE state comprehensive.

    Also my GP LOOKS working class lol don't ask how :rolleyes: but when I go to hospitals or see specialists like opthamologists (sp?) they're almost always blatantly middle class, with their certificates from oxbridge and their posh accents. But obviously you can't generalise and the statement in the article is completely absurd to say the least, but I'm wondering if 51%+ of med school students are from middle class backgrounds..
    51% lol.

    at some universities at least, the % is more like 95%
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    (Original post by spartakist)
    Why does it even matter? Anyone can get the funding to attend medical school regardless of background, and I'm pretty sure the university won't discriminate against anyone
    that view is part of the reason why they dont get in.
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    (Original post by Tyraell)
    However, what they haven't factored in to the equation is that it's just not as appealing to work in the working class areas, which are often more deprived. That's why they're having to pay teachers to work in deprived areas (the 'golden handcuffs')! Given the choice between better working conditions and worse working conditions, which would you choose?
    whilst that may be true, tyrell corps, there is the other side of the coin which we dont see much of becos we are so middle class - that a middle class doctor might not share the interests of a largely working class town, so wouldnt work there.... a working class doctor might thrive in a working class town, yet entirely loath working in a posh area like chelsea in london.

    i mean, to me chelsea is a socially retarded **** area to be in, but nottingham, newcastle and middlesbrough rock by comparison, the difference i see is pretty massive.
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    (Original post by Gizmo!)
    whilst that may be true, tyrell corps, there is the other side of the coin which we dont see much of becos we are so middle class - that a middle class doctor might not share the interests of a largely working class town, so wouldnt work there.... a working class doctor might thrive in a working class town, yet entirely loath working in a posh area like chelsea in london.

    (Original post by tyraell)
    I also think you've misunderstood the point. It's not a form of snobbery; regardless of your background you're going to want to treat the sort of people you've grown up socialising with. A middle class person would probably be more comfortable treating a middle classer and the same for working class.
    Which is what I said in less succinct terms. :p:
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    ahh, tyrell, you are always one step ahead o the crowd.

    you must be tyrell from the other forum, i would guess, macca.
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    This grade idea is nothing short of a disaster.

    The issue of "medicine is middle class" has nothing to do with who can get the grades or not- I went to a state school and plenty of us got straight As and went on to highly competitive courses/unis. The issue is that medicine as a degree is inherently expensive to study- 5 years, textbooks, equipment, travelling between placements, the need for smarter clothing for wards etc. Lower the cost of studying medicine and boom, the vast majority of the problem will have evaporated.
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    I note that nobody seems to make so much noise about the stigma around going into nursing (at least in my background).
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    (Original post by Chiko 1001)
    This grade idea is nothing short of a disaster.

    The issue of "medicine is middle class" has nothing to do with who can get the grades or not- I went to a state school and plenty of us got straight As and went on to highly competitive courses/unis. The issue is that medicine as a degree is inherently expensive to study- 5 years, textbooks, equipment, travelling between placements, the need for smarter clothing for wards etc. Lower the cost of studying medicine and boom, the vast majority of the problem will have evaporated.
    a good class related post on TSR! lol
    this place is going up in the world, Chiko hehe


    quite right. i really struggle to be here at med school. whilst i'm working 30-40 hours a week even during semester at times, no one else in this med school gets near as far as i'm aware.
    yet if i couldnt work i would ave dropped out by now, simple as that.

    lol i fink i'm the only one in my year who still cant afford a stethoscope!

    not that i want anyone feeling sorry for me (though you can lend me a tenner instead opf swanning off on oliday, you poshies, lol jus kidding i know you'd never do that) at all, becos i'm just the same as most peeple frmo my town needing to work - its our way of life heehee so back to the coal pits, Gizzy Robson!
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    (Original post by Gizmo!)
    a good class related post on TSR! lol
    this place is going up in the world, Chiko hehe


    quite right. i really struggle to be here at med school. whilst i'm working 30-40 hours a week even during semester at times, no one else in this med school gets near as far as i'm aware.
    yet if i couldnt work i would ave dropped out by now, simple as that.

    lol i fink i'm the only one in my year who still cant afford a stethoscope!

    not that i want anyone feeling sorry for me (though you can lend me a tenner instead opf swanning off on oliday, you poshies, lol jus kidding i know you'd never do that) at all, becos i'm just the same as most peeple frmo my town needing to work - its our way of life heehee so back to the coal pits, Gizzy Robson!
    How are you needing to work a 30-40 hour week on top of the loans, grants and bursaries? :eek:
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    (Original post by Gizmo!)
    faced wif a five year degree, and relatively poor funding compared to other degrees, and the general difficulty of earning moneyu during medicine degrees which increases as you progress from year 2 to year 5, its really no wonder that a working class person is going to be less likely to go and study medicine.

    the alternative, studying a shorter course with more opportunities for funding, and sooner rather than later job prospects, or SIMPLY GOING TO GET A JOB are more realistic bets.

    its not that they wouldnt if they could, you know. of course they would, its just that a lot of them.

    You know how a middle class person (like most of you guys) miraculously reasons out that university is the path they MUST choose at 18, becos it makes the most sense?
    Well, in a similar, way, working class peeple will tend to reason out that a course like medicine ISNT the way to go in favour of other options.
    It not becos they dont want to do medicine initially. If thjey had the same opportunities they would. but as they begin to perceive the extra number of obstacles in their way that others dont face arent worth the extra effort, they select another path and tend to see medicine as something they dont want to do more and more, so that by the time they are 18, they dont want to do medicine.
    Given the same opportunities as us they would do it, and they'd keep 'old of the same ambitions that we have at 14 or 15 wiffout that distortion of perpective that obstacles bring about.


    OBVIOUSLY these are general trends, not applying to everyone (you need to make disclaimers like that on a forum like this lol),
    The tuition of the final 2 years is fully funded by the NHS. Further, there are maintenance grants available anyway.
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    (Original post by Tyraell)
    How are you needing to work a 30-40 hour week on top of the loans, grants and bursaries? :eek:
    Exactly, it is harder to survive from a middle class background, becuase such grants and bursaries are not available.
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    (Original post by Comp_Genius)
    Exactly, it is harder to survive from a middle class background, becuase such grants and bursaries are not available.
    you pay my mortgage and bills, then.


    you need to get a clue.
    peeple often dont have the comfort zone you ave to fly off to university when you so choose. we need to look after ourselves and our families first, and that means jobs and mortgages.
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    It's true with the grants and bursaries. In my undergad degree I had the same problem. I was so skint and my working class counter-parts were going out getting smashed on their bursaries and buying nice clothes with their grants lol.

    Also, there is more to it than just money issues. Some middle class families are more inclined to want to go into degrees such as medicine, dentistry and vet med. When I worked in the NHS, the majority of my working class patients slated my job and said "I could never be assed to do that" whereas, my middle class patients were more inclined to aspire their children to do similiar jobs.
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    (Original post by nas7232)
    It's true with the grants and bursaries. In my undergad degree I had the same problem. I was so skint and my working class counter-parts were going out getting smashed on their bursaries and buying nice clothes with their grants lol.
    what all 1 of your working class colleagues at UCL, privvy home of the middle classes and poshies?


    there isnt anyone working class alive who would choose to study at UCL unless they ad a gnu to their 'ead, macca. you probably mean 'middle class peeple masquerading as working class gangsters from south london', whose parents were smart enough to scam the Government nito believing that they were lower class.
 
 
 
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