are people who complain about introverts a bit abnormal in the head?

OP

Original post by Resonanse

Now you're going completely off the point of the discussion, which was that introverts react differently to conversation. If someone does not react in the way you expect them to, you're less likely to socially connect with that person.

People don't owe others a warm greeting. The other person probably doesn't want to respond well.

Not within the context of the discussion. Sociaty doesn't work that way.

Human society works in that there are common norms and structures that govern things. People still are individuals in that sense.

Social norms are [at least within the context I'm suing the word] the typical behaviors of individuals when socializing. If you don't adhere to these norms you're ultimately shunned. If I'm speaking to someone, and they keep whispering a response, or don't look at me whilst I'm talking, I'd feel awkward, because it's not a social norm. Hence the phrase and the explanations I've given.

That is your fault, not the other person's. You don't know why they acted that way. And even if they did act that way, it's not necessarily due to rudeness or being unmannerly. Again, simply move on to somebody else. There are almost 7 billion other people to connect with.

What a surprise...

You might want to look up what kind of people I'm discussing here; I'm not talking about introverts who are shy meeting new people but still cope; that's not who people complain about, they complain about those that don't meet social norms - you're looking at the wrong group of people.

See above, you're changing the very topic in order to avoid recognizing the points raised...

I disagree that there are many social norms in interaction. I think if a person is not forthcoming, simply move on to somebody else. Empathy goes a long way. :wink:

Reply 22

Resonanse

5

Original post by rajandkwameali

People don't owe others a warm greeting. The other person probably doesn't want to respond well.

Which is why people feel awquard when speaking to them; hence the complaints.

Human society works in that there are common norms and structures that govern things. People still are individuals in that sense.

Asinine point that has nothing to do with the discussion.

That is your fault, not the other person's. You don't know why they acted that way. And even if they did act that way, it's not necessarily due to rudeness or being unmannerly. Again, simply move on to somebody else. There are almost 7 billion other people to connect with.

That doesn't mean that anyone that complains about someone behaving in that way is "abnormal in the head", which was your original argument. I think I've proven that to be incorrect with this response in which you're basically saying if someone does not behavior within the social norms, move on. That still gives people the right to complain.

I disagree that there are many social norms in interaction. I think if a person is not forthcoming, simply move on to somebody else. Empathy goes a long way. :wink:

See above.

Reply 23

OP

It's still unhealthy human interaction in either case. Not everybody follows, nor wants to follow social norms. Why should they? Everybody is free. I say people hold no right to complain about introverts, since it's a lack of understanding of the basic norms of human beings. People don't act as we like them to.

Reply 24

edanon

11

it doesn't matter. introverts are the superior people, they win.

Reply 25

Studentus-anonymous

Original post by Blueflare

Anyone who fails to comprehend of a point of view and a way of behaving different from their own can indeed be considered "abnormal".
But then, the words normal and abnormal are highly subjective, loaded words...

This.

Reply 26

OP

I think these "social norms" are just purported by pop culture. In our society in the UK, we are told to be lively and approachable when in social situations, but not everybody is like that by nature.

I don't consider myself introverted, but I would not always be forthcoming to people I meet, if I think they are dicks or otherwise I don't like them. I don't owe them, or anybody else, a warm greeting.

Reply 27

Original post by rajandkwameali

Are introverts only disliked since they make others feel uncomfortable?

But isn't it the norm that others don't exist to make people feel comfortable? :s-smilie:

Equally, other people don't exist to please you. Why shouldn't they favour someone who makes the effort to be open, warm, friendly etc. to them?

Most people's opinions of each other are more complex than "I like/I don't like them"

I don't hold anything against introverted people but its unlikely I'm ever going to grow that attached to them if they never open up to me. i.e. I have nothing against them and they're probably good people but I don't owe them as much as the people that put significant effort into building a friendship with me.

N.B: This entire argument applies to excessively extroverted people that make others feel uncomfortable too. (Before anybody starts feeling victimised.)

Reply 28

OP

Original post by halfoflessthan50p

Equally, other people don't exist to please you. Why shouldn't they favour someone who makes the effort to be open, warm, friendly etc. to them?

So it's being over-sensitive, and not understanding human interaction/thought properly. Why does somebody owe you warmth? Simply go to another person and talk with them.

Most people's opinions of each other are more complex than "I like/I don't like them"

I don't hold anything against introverted people but its unlikely I'm ever going to grow that attached to them if they never open up to me. i.e. I have nothing against them and they're probably good people but I don't owe them as much as the people that put significant effort into building a friendship with me.

N.B: This entire argument applies to excessively extroverted people that make others feel uncomfortable too. (Before anybody starts feeling victimised.)

You sound insecure. Not everybody will like you/approve of you. :biggrin:

Reply 29

You sound insecure. Not everybody will like you/approve of you. :biggrin:

Shut up... I can dream!

Original post by rajandkwameali

So it's being over-sensitive, and not understanding human interaction/thought properly.

I'm not sure its overly-sensitive to want friends that make you feel good about yourself - isn't that kind of the whole point of friendship?

Simply go to another person and talk with them.

I would. I didn't say that I expect to be best friends with every person I meet.

Why does somebody owe you warmth?

I don't think anybody owes anybody else anything -that's the whole point.

The universe isn't fair, objective morality does not exist and you aren't any more special than any other lump of carbon in the universe. The sooner you accept that and just concentrate on enjoying life the better.

Reply 30

OP

Original post by halfoflessthan50p

Shut up... I can dream!

I'm not sure its overly-sensitive to want friends that make you feel good about yourself - isn't that kind of the whole point of friendship?

Not if it's a total stranger.

I would. I didn't say that I expect to be best friends with every person I meet.

So it's ego then. I understand how younger people think, they assume that everybody must warm to them.

I don't think anybody owes anybody else anything -that's the whole point.

The universe isn't fair, objective morality does not exist and you aren't any more special than any other lump of carbon in the universe. The sooner you accept that and just concentrate on enjoying life the better.

There is no such thing as morality. I have a healthy self-concept and don't expect others to accede to me. Seems you and most others in this thread aren't the same, but such is life, we cannot prescribe for others.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 31

Original post by rajandkwameali

Not if it's a total stranger.

Why am I having a conversation with them if they're a total stranger and I want to keep it that way? :confused:

So it's ego then.

I don't understand this. Explain further please.

It might well be ego, I don't know. I'm not pretending not to have one.

There is no such thing as morality. I have a healthy self-concept and don't expect others to accede to me. Seems you ... aren't the same...

Seems like you haven't read my post very carefully since this is the one thing we do agree on.

Reply 32

OP

Original post by halfoflessthan50p

Why am I having a conversation with them if they're a total stranger and I want to keep it that way? :confused:

The entire societal issue is with introverts is that they make others feel uncomfortable. This is an untenable argument, since we live for ourselves not anybody else.

I don't understand this. Explain further please.

It might well be ego, I don't know. I'm not pretending not to have one.

It is ego, since healthy people hold a valid self-concept. It's ego to assume that others will approve of us. If you have a large ego, then bully for you, I don't care.

Seems like you haven't read my post very carefully since this is the one thing we do agree on.

There is no such thing as morality, everybody knows that. It's wrong to kill, but it's right to do so also.

Reply 33

Original post by rajandkwameali

The entire societal issue is with introverts is that they make others feel uncomfortable. This is an untenable argument, since we live for ourselves not anybody else.

Its only an untenable argument if you say 'people shouldn't be allowed to be introverts'

Its fine to say 'I choose not to spend my time around introverts'

It's ego to assume that others will approve of us.

I'd call it optimism personally.

There is no such thing as morality, everybody knows that. It's wrong to kill, but it's right to do so also.

That's what I said.

I'd say 'to kill' is neither right nor wrong philosophically. When we say 'killing is wrong' we really just mean 'we have invented and agreed on a set of rules to get along with each other, within this system of rules killing is not allowed'

Reply 34

OP

Original post by halfoflessthan50p

Its only an untenable argument if you say 'people shouldn't be allowed to be introverts'

Its fine to say 'I choose not to spend my time around introverts'

People can be anything. Don't you realise that?

I'd call it optimism personally.

No, it's not. It's not accepting the reality of life. Nobody is truly special. Apparently, you may need knocking down if you think others must approve of you.

That's what I said.

I'd say 'to kill' is neither right nor wrong philosophically. When we say 'killing is wrong' we really just mean 'we have invented and agreed on a set of rules to get along with each other, within this system of rules killing is not allowed'

True. I can kill and get away with it, since morals and rules don't exist. :biggrin:

Reply 35

Original post by rajandkwameali

People can be anything. Don't you realise that

lol, that's exactly what I said.

I'm not sure were arguing any more because we both agree - nobody owes anybody anything. Anybody can act however they like*. Anybody can react however they like*.

*within reason

No, it's not. It's not accepting the reality of life. Nobody is truly special. Apparently, you may need knocking down if you think others must approve of you.

Read my previous post. That's the opposite of what I just told you I believe

True. I can kill and get away with it, since morals and rules don't exist. :biggrin:

Is the plan to drive people to suicide by trolling on TSR by any chance? :biggrin:

Reply 36

OP

Original post by halfoflessthan50p

lol, that's exactly what I said.

I'm not sure were arguing any more because we both agree - nobody owes anybody anything. Anybody can act however they like*. Anybody can react however they like*.

*within reason

No they don't. absolutely anything goes in life.

Read my previous post. That's the opposite of what I just told you I believe

Is the plan to drive people to suicide by trolling on TSR by any chance? :biggrin:

No, it's truth. It's right to kill. Everybody knows that, and there are no rules. The only rule is that there are no rules.

Reply 37

I think I worked out why he's an introvert :wink:

Reply 38

Resonanse

5

Original post by rajandkwameali

I think these "social norms" are just purported by pop culture. In our society in the UK, we are told to be lively and approachable when in social situations, but not everybody is like that by nature.

I don't consider myself introverted, but I would not always be forthcoming to people I meet, if I think they are dicks or otherwise I don't like them. I don't owe them, or anybody else, a warm greeting.

This post alone displays the fact you've gone off the point of topic altogether, I'd argue to avoid actually detailing the issue involved. Using this concept, I'd argue this discussion is over, and its been proven that people who complain about introverts are not "abnormal".

Reply 39

OP