I can deal with case law/statutes but TREATY ARTICLES - help!
I don't know what my problem is... I can deal with English case law very well. I usually get the facts and the principle coming out of it and it's fine to revise. The statutes we have been told to look at too are fine.
But in terms of EU, I am so useless. I look at something like 'Art288' and I can never remember it. I can't remember any treaty articles, I am so hopeless with EU articles etc.
Am I supposed to have read the entire TEU/TFEU for EU law? I can just never remember the treaty numbers because... I guess it's just a number.
In fact I'm rather terrible at EU law full stop. The textbook is horrendous, so I bought a book that is only around 300 pages called 'Intro to EU Law' by Karen Davies. My tutor is also useless - he doesn't care, he doesnt set us any work to do and just wastes the entire tutorial giving a mini-lecture.
How can I deal with them?
But in terms of EU, I am so useless. I look at something like 'Art288' and I can never remember it. I can't remember any treaty articles, I am so hopeless with EU articles etc.
Am I supposed to have read the entire TEU/TFEU for EU law? I can just never remember the treaty numbers because... I guess it's just a number.
In fact I'm rather terrible at EU law full stop. The textbook is horrendous, so I bought a book that is only around 300 pages called 'Intro to EU Law' by Karen Davies. My tutor is also useless - he doesn't care, he doesnt set us any work to do and just wastes the entire tutorial giving a mini-lecture.
How can I deal with them?
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by lesbionic
I don't know what my problem is... I can deal with English case law very well. I usually get the facts and the principle coming out of it and it's fine to revise. The statutes we have been told to look at too are fine.
But in terms of EU, I am so useless. I look at something like 'Art288' and I can never remember it. I can't remember any treaty articles, I am so hopeless with EU articles etc.
Am I supposed to have read the entire TEU/TFEU for EU law? I can just never remember the treaty numbers because... I guess it's just a number.
In fact I'm rather terrible at EU law full stop. The textbook is horrendous, so I bought a book that is only around 300 pages called 'Intro to EU Law' by Karen Davies. My tutor is also useless - he doesn't care, he doesnt set us any work to do and just wastes the entire tutorial giving a mini-lecture.
How can I deal with them?
But in terms of EU, I am so useless. I look at something like 'Art288' and I can never remember it. I can't remember any treaty articles, I am so hopeless with EU articles etc.
Am I supposed to have read the entire TEU/TFEU for EU law? I can just never remember the treaty numbers because... I guess it's just a number.
In fact I'm rather terrible at EU law full stop. The textbook is horrendous, so I bought a book that is only around 300 pages called 'Intro to EU Law' by Karen Davies. My tutor is also useless - he doesn't care, he doesnt set us any work to do and just wastes the entire tutorial giving a mini-lecture.
How can I deal with them?
I feel your pain - my EU abilities seem to be relatively lacking.
You don't need to have read the entire TFEU unless your syllabus specifically tells you to (mine doesn't but then, i don't know if you go to my uni).
I think the way to deal with this is to write down what the relvants treaty articles do and make flashcards or something. As i said, i'm studying EU at the moment too so i need to memorise as well (if you're desperate, you could try my method but i don't think it works for most people. I memorise things by associating images or feelings with it. So i remember Art 258 is enforcement proceedings by thinking of sitting cross-legged on a chair and facing a wall which is what i was doing when i made notes on it. Or, for example, i remember the Plaumann case by thinking of a Ploughman's Sandwich and my lecture hall)
As for textbooks, try Hartley. It's quite dry but very detailed and up-to-date so you know the Article provisions are correct.
Original post by gethsemane342
I feel your pain - my EU abilities seem to be relatively lacking.
You don't need to have read the entire TFEU unless your syllabus specifically tells you to (mine doesn't but then, i don't know if you go to my uni).
I think the way to deal with this is to write down what the relvants treaty articles do and make flashcards or something. As i said, i'm studying EU at the moment too so i need to memorise as well (if you're desperate, you could try my method but i don't think it works for most people. I memorise things by associating images or feelings with it. So i remember Art 258 is enforcement proceedings by thinking of sitting cross-legged on a chair and facing a wall which is what i was doing when i made notes on it. Or, for example, i remember the Plaumann case by thinking of a Ploughman's Sandwich and my lecture hall)
As for textbooks, try Hartley. It's quite dry but very detailed and up-to-date so you know the Article provisions are correct.
You don't need to have read the entire TFEU unless your syllabus specifically tells you to (mine doesn't but then, i don't know if you go to my uni).
I think the way to deal with this is to write down what the relvants treaty articles do and make flashcards or something. As i said, i'm studying EU at the moment too so i need to memorise as well (if you're desperate, you could try my method but i don't think it works for most people. I memorise things by associating images or feelings with it. So i remember Art 258 is enforcement proceedings by thinking of sitting cross-legged on a chair and facing a wall which is what i was doing when i made notes on it. Or, for example, i remember the Plaumann case by thinking of a Ploughman's Sandwich and my lecture hall)
As for textbooks, try Hartley. It's quite dry but very detailed and up-to-date so you know the Article provisions are correct.
Thanks for the advice. Oh you're at Cambridge - I'm at King's, they make us do EU in our first year, and King's are really obsessed with EU law.
I'm starting revision for my January midsessionals.
Original post by Life_peer
Just leave the EU and we all will be happier.
Leaving the EU won't mean EU law ceases to exist?
Original post by LiamTheKook
Leaving the EU won't mean EU law ceases to exist?
Well, I believe that it should be the UK government to create the UK law, not a bunch of bureaucrats far away, many of whom are without necessary understanding of the British people and have no mandate from them. As you can seen in my signature, I am eurosceptic so whatever happens with the EU law after the UK leaves it does not matter to me – the laws shall be reconsidered in that case and either abolished or altered in favour of the country and its citizens.
(edited 13 years ago)
At least you've started revising for it, my exam is at the beginning of January and I can't face looking at it.
Original post by LiamTheKook
Leaving the EU won't mean EU law ceases to exist?
No but if you're on an English Law course, then it ceases to be relevant.
Original post by insignificant
At least you've started revising for it, my exam is at the beginning of January and I can't face looking at it.
Which university?
I haven't really looked at EU much at all this semester. Just went to all the classes, but didn't really follow it.
Original post by lesbionic
Which university?
I haven't really looked at EU much at all this semester. Just went to all the classes, but didn't really follow it.
I haven't really looked at EU much at all this semester. Just went to all the classes, but didn't really follow it.
LJMU... lol .
Original post by insignificant
LJMU... lol .
Why the lol? Law is law, and you do EU law too - glad to see it's equally awful in Liverpool as it is in London xD
Original post by Life_peer
Well, I believe that it should be the UK government to create the UK law, not a bunch of bureaucrats far away, many of whom are without necessary understanding of the British people and have no mandate from them. As you can seen in my signature, I am eurosceptic so whatever happens with the EU law after the UK leaves it does not matter to me – the laws shall be reconsidered in that case and either abolished or altered in favour of the country and its citizens.
I respect your view on Britain's situation within the EU but leaving it doesn't necessarily mean people won't learn and be taught about EU law. Hypothetically speaking, if we were to leave the EU, we'd still need lawyers who understand EU law to deal with legal situations concerning countries who remain members of the EU for example.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brand your opinion on leaving the EU wrong or anything of the sort, I just felt it was necessary to point out that we'd still need people to understand the law in foreign countries.
Original post by lesbionic
No but if you're on an English Law course, then it ceases to be relevant.
I'm certainly not claiming to be any expert but EU law does play a part in English law. It has relevance, albeit towards the smaller end of the scale.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by lesbionic
I haven't really looked at EU much at all this semester. Just went to all the classes, but didn't really follow it.[/QUOTE]
Same here
The only part i really got was directives and direct effect. This is because i did constitutional law last year which has a topic on EU law. Even then, i struggled...(It seems to get better next term though because it's about freedom of movement. Or, at least, it is here)
Original post by Life_peer
Just leave the EU and we all will be happier.
I like this new way of promoting TSR UKIP. In a totally unrelated matter:
Original post by lesbionic
I don't know what my problem is... I can deal with English case law very well. I usually get the facts and the principle coming out of it and it's fine to revise. The statutes we have been told to look at too are fine.
But in terms of EU, I am so useless. I look at something like 'Art288' and I can never remember it. I can't remember any treaty articles, I am so hopeless with EU articles etc.
Am I supposed to have read the entire TEU/TFEU for EU law? I can just never remember the treaty numbers because... I guess it's just a number.
In fact I'm rather terrible at EU law full stop. The textbook is horrendous, so I bought a book that is only around 300 pages called 'Intro to EU Law' by Karen Davies. My tutor is also useless - he doesn't care, he doesnt set us any work to do and just wastes the entire tutorial giving a mini-lecture.
How can I deal with them?
But in terms of EU, I am so useless. I look at something like 'Art288' and I can never remember it. I can't remember any treaty articles, I am so hopeless with EU articles etc.
Am I supposed to have read the entire TEU/TFEU for EU law? I can just never remember the treaty numbers because... I guess it's just a number.
In fact I'm rather terrible at EU law full stop. The textbook is horrendous, so I bought a book that is only around 300 pages called 'Intro to EU Law' by Karen Davies. My tutor is also useless - he doesn't care, he doesnt set us any work to do and just wastes the entire tutorial giving a mini-lecture.
How can I deal with them?
Feel free to join TSR UKIP to show your hate of EU law. Click the image in my signature to join.
You should only need to remember a few treaty numbers..... 4 or 5 at most. You don't need the entire Treaty.
Don't you have the statute book in with you for exams? If so, just use those coloured sticky pieces of paper (check these are allowed almost always are) to mark relevant pages. If you need to use a statutory section or part of a Treaty in an exam in ever subject, trying to remember it is a really bad idea - you need to be familiar with and read and use the primary materials. Doing my best not to sound really patronising, this is a skill which you will soon develop when you start studying subjects like Family law and Company law, often people have difficulty when they first start with it so don't be concerned.
Best way to remember these things is to practice using the statute book. Have the book next to you and refer to it when you read cases/textbooks/practice exam questions or whatever. If you get used to referring to it you'll be able to find the relevant parts very quickly and this is what you will need to do in an exam.
Am not quite sure why you would be OK with statutes in general but have problems with the EC Treaty? Its exactly the same thing, albeit with a very slightly different style to most English statutes.
If you need a good textbook, try Hartley - Foundations of EU law and Barnard - The Four Freedoms when you come to study the Four Freedoms. Barnard is simply outstanding, best EU textbook ever. Hartley is good at making you understand stuff though do use a proper textbook after that.
Never heard of "intro to EU law". EU law is one of those rare subjects where the "standard" texts referred to again and again by the legal community (like Treitel for Contract) are actually good. Craig and De Burca is really excellent (though I'm not sure how up-to-date the latest edition is). Its a subject where it is worth getting a fairly long textbook IMO - might be worth an extended trip to the library.
If it all goes hopelessly wrong, you can avoid most of the Treaty entirely by concentrating on the Four Freedoms, Direct Effect/supremacy and one other subject such as remedies.... EU is a subject where you don't need to revise the whole course to be assured of being able to answer the necessary number of exam questions as the different topics are fairly self-contained. (n.b. check that these don't come within EU Law 2 or Advanced EU law or some such module at Kings)
Don't you have the statute book in with you for exams? If so, just use those coloured sticky pieces of paper (check these are allowed almost always are) to mark relevant pages. If you need to use a statutory section or part of a Treaty in an exam in ever subject, trying to remember it is a really bad idea - you need to be familiar with and read and use the primary materials. Doing my best not to sound really patronising, this is a skill which you will soon develop when you start studying subjects like Family law and Company law, often people have difficulty when they first start with it so don't be concerned.
Best way to remember these things is to practice using the statute book. Have the book next to you and refer to it when you read cases/textbooks/practice exam questions or whatever. If you get used to referring to it you'll be able to find the relevant parts very quickly and this is what you will need to do in an exam.
Am not quite sure why you would be OK with statutes in general but have problems with the EC Treaty? Its exactly the same thing, albeit with a very slightly different style to most English statutes.
If you need a good textbook, try Hartley - Foundations of EU law and Barnard - The Four Freedoms when you come to study the Four Freedoms. Barnard is simply outstanding, best EU textbook ever. Hartley is good at making you understand stuff though do use a proper textbook after that.
Never heard of "intro to EU law". EU law is one of those rare subjects where the "standard" texts referred to again and again by the legal community (like Treitel for Contract) are actually good. Craig and De Burca is really excellent (though I'm not sure how up-to-date the latest edition is). Its a subject where it is worth getting a fairly long textbook IMO - might be worth an extended trip to the library.
If it all goes hopelessly wrong, you can avoid most of the Treaty entirely by concentrating on the Four Freedoms, Direct Effect/supremacy and one other subject such as remedies.... EU is a subject where you don't need to revise the whole course to be assured of being able to answer the necessary number of exam questions as the different topics are fairly self-contained. (n.b. check that these don't come within EU Law 2 or Advanced EU law or some such module at Kings)
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by lesbionic
No but if you're on an English Law course, then it ceases to be relevant.
no it doesn't - it would probably cause modules to spring up all over the place on Europe and it's influence on UK law - and what laws have changed back to their pre-EU status and whatnot.
Tbh for any law student the UK leaving the EU would be a bit of a bugger!
Original post by toronto353
I like this new way of promoting TSR UKIP. In a totally unrelated matter:
Feel free to join TSR UKIP to show your hate of EU law. Click the image in my signature to join.
Feel free to join TSR UKIP to show your hate of EU law. Click the image in my signature to join.
Erm, no thanks... I'm Labour
The only time I ever entertain UKIP is watching those hilarious clips of Mr Farage in the EU Parliament.Original post by LiamTheKook
I respect your view on Britain's situation within the EU but leaving it doesn't necessarily mean people won't learn and be taught about EU law. Hypothetically speaking, if we were to leave the EU, we'd still need lawyers who understand EU law to deal with legal situations concerning countries who remain members of the EU for example.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brand your opinion on leaving the EU wrong or anything of the sort, I just felt it was necessary to point out that we'd still need people to understand the law in foreign countries.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brand your opinion on leaving the EU wrong or anything of the sort, I just felt it was necessary to point out that we'd still need people to understand the law in foreign countries.
The TSR maintenance guy has ruined my original response.
Anyway:Touché, you are right. However, I think that the possible withdrawal from the EU would disburden many of the lawyers working within the UK of taking countless EU legislation into account. I have read some bizarre regulations coming from Brussels which were only a waste of paper and taxpayers' money. But I do realise that this is a different matter.
Original post by gethsemane342
I feel your pain - my EU abilities seem to be relatively lacking.
You don't need to have read the entire TFEU unless your syllabus specifically tells you to (mine doesn't but then, i don't know if you go to my uni).
I think the way to deal with this is to write down what the relvants treaty articles do and make flashcards or something. As i said, i'm studying EU at the moment too so i need to memorise as well (if you're desperate, you could try my method but i don't think it works for most people. I memorise things by associating images or feelings with it. So i remember Art 258 is enforcement proceedings by thinking of sitting cross-legged on a chair and facing a wall which is what i was doing when i made notes on it. Or, for example, i remember the Plaumann case by thinking of a Ploughman's Sandwich and my lecture hall)
As for textbooks, try Hartley. It's quite dry but very detailed and up-to-date so you know the Article provisions are correct.
You don't need to have read the entire TFEU unless your syllabus specifically tells you to (mine doesn't but then, i don't know if you go to my uni).
I think the way to deal with this is to write down what the relvants treaty articles do and make flashcards or something. As i said, i'm studying EU at the moment too so i need to memorise as well (if you're desperate, you could try my method but i don't think it works for most people. I memorise things by associating images or feelings with it. So i remember Art 258 is enforcement proceedings by thinking of sitting cross-legged on a chair and facing a wall which is what i was doing when i made notes on it. Or, for example, i remember the Plaumann case by thinking of a Ploughman's Sandwich and my lecture hall)
As for textbooks, try Hartley. It's quite dry but very detailed and up-to-date so you know the Article provisions are correct.
I agree with this. EU's my worst subject this year and I'm really struggling. I would just recommend trying to remember the key articles for a specific area (unless your University requires you to read the entire treaty) such as the articles relevant to preliminary references, primacy, key objectives, four freedoms etc.
Flash cards would do the trick, but if you have lecture notes, highlight the key articles so when you're revising, they're there in bold and you will find remembering them is a lot easier.
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