For all you anti gun hoplophobes on here

Original post by silverbolt

however say a guy with a gun breaks into your home, in that instance you have the time to get your own gun out and either target him with it or shoot him before he shoots you thus your offense is your best defense

I don't know; call me cowardly, but I think the best course of action in that situation would be to run and hide somewhere - and if you're found, just tell the guy he can take whatever he wants. I think that gives you a much better chance of survival than trying to confront him with a gun of your own. If he's got a gun and you've got a gun, in a confrontation it seems that at best, you'd only have a 50% chance of not getting shot.

Of course, this is assuming that I'm prioritising survival over retention of my property.

Reply 142

Indian_Prince

15

Original post by Hardballer

ok tough guy have fun

uh lol just saying, most family people dont get involved in this sort of crap its always the gangs and insecure "hard" men who think there bad and aint been in education and im pretty sure i wouldnt be hanging around with tramps like them. the unfortunate people that do have to be around these fools with illegal guns are the ones that get caught up in it so yeh guns should be banned full stop.

Reply 143

Indian_Prince

15

Original post by tazarooni89

I don't know; call me cowardly, but I think the best course of action in that situation would be to run and hide somewhere - and if you're found, just tell the guy he can take whatever he wants. I think that gives you a much better chance of survival than trying to confront him with a gun of your own. If he's got a gun and you've got a gun, in a confrontation it seems that at best, you'd only have a 50% chance of not getting shot.

Of course, this is assuming that I'm prioritising survival over retention of my property.

lol smash there head in from the back when they walk past where ur hiding

Reply 144

Original post by Hardballer

lots of instances where people have defend themselves effectively

I'm sure there are instances where people have defended themselves, but exceptional things happen regularly. Even though the use of the gun was successful in the few instances that you showed me in the youtube videos, I think the store clerks would have had a much higher probability of survival if they had just handed over the money and did whatever else they were told.

It seems ike a much better idea just to have insurance on the contents of your house or shop (which most people probably have anyway), and that way there's no real need to defend your property. Just let the guy take what he wants, and he's less likely to shoot you than if you attempt to fight back.

the fact that you're carrying a gun gives you a chance to fight back if the criminals is going to kill you anyway, and alot of criminals will harm you anyway because its what they thrive on, so if thats the case then you have nothing to lose by going for your gun

True, but that's only if you know the criminal will harm you anyway to begin with. Some criminals may thrive on that, but I think most criminals would rather commit armed robbery than armed robbery and murder.

and whilst open carrying just the visibilty of your gun acts a deterrent

I don't really see why that would act as a deterrent. If anything, surely it would just encourage the assailant to shoot straight away rather than holding me up, or to be extra careful in making sure that I don't reach for my gun (e.g. by taking the gun off me first, while pointing his own gun at me).

The youtube videos you posted show that the guns used for defence were always concealed to begin with.

Reply 145

Original post by tazarooni89

It seems ike a much better idea just to have insurance on the contents of your house or shop

That's fine. If it seems like a better idea for you, then sure, do it. But who are you and other anti-gun people in the US to say to those shopkeepers "you can't have a gun. You must buy insurance. Because that's what I want to do."

To me that's what being a Libertarian is all about, giving people freedom to choose.

Btw, are there any actual gun owners here that are in the UK?

Reply 146

OP

Original post by MarcusTheEskimo

Btw, are there any actual gun owners here that are in the UK?

me

I have a 12 gauge I have this model here, that aint a picture of my actual firearm, its just the same model gun, mine has a tactical flashlight and laser I bought in America

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 147

OP

Original post by moonkatt

What do we need more guns for? I see no desperate need for them.

not yet you don't

Reply 148

Original post by Hardballer

me

I have a 12 gauge I have this model here, that aint a picture of my actual firearm, its just the same model gun, mine has a tactical flashlight and laser I bought in America

Where do you live?

Reply 149

OP

Original post by tazarooni89

my gun (e.g. by taking the gun off me first, while pointing his own gun at me).

The youtube videos you posted show that the guns used for defence were always concealed to begin with.

better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it

Reply 150

OP

Original post by MarcusTheEskimo

Where do you live?

I live in the south west, Devon. I'm a libertarian as well and might vote LPUK next election

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 151

Original post by Hardballer

I live in the south west, Devon.

So you live in quite a rural area? Did you get it for hunting reasons?

I live in the Merseyside urban conurbation, I doubt there is much scope for me getting a gun. The only reason I could provide is that I'm a survivalist - do you think that would be sufficient?

Reply 152

OP

Original post by MarcusTheEskimo

So you live in quite a rural area? Did you get it for hunting reasons?

I live in the Merseyside urban conurbation, I doubt there is much scope for me getting a gun. The only reason I could provide is that I'm a survivalist - do you think that would be sufficient?

I live in a terraced house on the suburbs of a city and use it when I go clay shooting. You don't need a good reason for owning a shotgun, you just need a good reason for owning other firearms and unless you have land or have been attending a gun club for six months its hard to get a firearms licence. Shotgun is considerably easier, and where you live is irrelavent, the police might ask for more security like a burgular alarm as well as your main gun cabinet if its a rough area. They have to have a good reason to refuse you but if you go out and do a bit of clay shooting before you apply then they won't have a good reason to refuse you unless you're known to the local police force for all the wrong reasons. heres the application form if you want to take a look at it
http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/news_info/departments/firearms/licencing/pdf/fir103.pdf

Reply 153

Original post by MarcusTheEskimo

That's fine. If it seems like a better idea for you, then sure, do it. But who are you and other anti-gun people in the US to say to those shopkeepers "you can't have a gun. You must buy insurance. Because that's what I want to do."

I'm not saying that anyone must buy insurance.

What I'm saying is that, there is an obvious danger in legalising guns - namely that they can be used by criminals to threaten and attack. This is the main case for keeping guns illegal

Now the counter-argument is that they can also be used to defend, and that people have the right to defend themselves and their property. However, my point is that the potential for a gun to be used as a tool for defence is far less than its potential to be used as a weapon of attack or intimidation. Also, there are better ways to protect your property than using a gun.

As a result, the case for legalising guns is much weaker than the case for keeping them illegal. This is of course, assuming that our main priority is not "freedom", but survival.

NB. I'm not saying that guns should be made illegal in the US. I'm saying that they should continue to be illegal in the UK.

Reply 154

Original post by tazarooni89

I'm saying that they should continue to be illegal in the UK.

Guns aren't illegal in the UK.

Reply 155

Original post by Hardballer

better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it

First of all, I think it's extremely unlikely that you would ever actually need it to survive, even if your attacker had a gun. If the attacker really was intent on shooting you, most of the time a gun would be useless anyway, because you'd get shot before you get a chance to use it. If the attacker just wanted to take your money and leave, your highest chance of survival is if you just give it to him, and he'll leave you be. Confronting him with a gun increases your own chances of getting shot.

And secondly, it's obviously better if your attacker doesn't have a gun than if he does. Keeping guns illegal makes it less likely that the attacker will have a gun.

By legalising guns, you're basically giving both the robber and the store clerk a gun each. The store clerk probably has no use for a gun, but the attacker probably does.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 156

Original post by MarcusTheEskimo

Guns aren't illegal in the UK.

Ok, more accurately I think gun laws in the UK should remain the same. What is currently illegal regarding guns should remain illegal.

The UK has one of the lowest rates of gun homicide in the world. I think it is more of a priority to keep it this way, than to give people the (questionable) ability to defend themselves and their property.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 157

OP

he does have a use and that is self defense

Reply 158