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Original post by King Kebab
Self determination

How would any of those currency options give us self determination in any meaningful way?

Even if we create and use a brand new currency, given that we are bordered by the GBP on one side and the Euro on the other, our entire monetary policy will be heavily influenced by the decisions taken by our larger neighbours.

That isn't full self determination, it is self determination to a degree. Currently, as part of the UK, we enjoy a very strong currency that we can control. Seems like a good deal to me.

Original post by King Kebab
An economy more evenly spread (throughout Scotland) I hope rather than an economy based on the city of London

The Scottish economy is heavily dependant on a few sectors such as energy (which of course is highly volatile) and public services. I wouldn't say that our economy is more spread out than the UK's though, from my perspective it looks like most things are in the central belt.

Furthermore, while I agree that the UK is far too "London-centric", I think that we should challenge that. Running away won't solve the problem.

Original post by King Kebab
I feel being a smaller country would mean less intervention in foreign wars

Really? Let me ask you a question; Over the past decade, how many of the 28 EU member states, 5 EU candidate states (Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Turkey), EU applicant states (Albania) or states closely connected to the EU (Norway and Switzerland) have deployed their forces on operations - not including UN peacekeeping - overseas?

The answer: 26 EU states, 4 EU candidate states, Albania, Norway and Switzerland have all deployed soldiers on operations abroad. If we include UN peacekeeping then only one country on that list - Cyprus - has not deployed troops on operations overseas.

Interestingly, all of the Nordic nations that the SNP seem so obsessed with have deployed troops to Iraq or Afghanistan.

What exactly makes you think that Scotland will not be deploying troops overseas?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by King Kebab
I think it would be more easily spread than it currently is in an independent Scotland.


I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.
Original post by King Kebab
I think it would be more easily spread than it currently is in an independent Scotland. Tourism in the North. There is a lot of wealth from farmland as well in the borders area too.


So? Those things can be profited from now.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Ladbrokes: Scotland 1/100 to enter currency union - 50/1 not to

Ladbrokes press release

Scotland certs for currency union

Scotland are a racing certainty to form a currency union should they vote 'yes' to independence, according to Ladbrokes.

The book is now open on the prospects of the formation of the union, should Scotland break away from the rest of the UK and it's a near-certainty at 1/100 that they keep sterling, with 50/1 the price that any other currency, including the Euro, is used.

For context, Scotland are 50/1 to win the upcoming 6 Nations while 1/100 is the price Scotland would be to beat San Marino in an international football match.

Alex Donohue of Ladbrokes said: "It's about as uncompetitive as a betting contest can be. Punters would win a penny for ever pound staked on an independent Scotland sticking with sterling."


So, which one did Mr Carney favour?

He did not say directly. But given the words, “necessary foundations for a durable union”, it seems that he assumes the best option is for the Bank to become a supranational institution.

In other words, Mr Carney is closer to the position of the Scottish Government. But he was careful not to say this too explicitly.


Interesting..
But in a small nation, forced to live from a smaller tax base, there is more of a limit to how big state institutions can grow. Monitoring becomes more efficient, it is harder to obfuscate, so there is more transparency and accountability, and less waste. Change is easier to implement, making a nation flexible, dynamic and competitive. With fewer people, there is less of a wealth gap between those at the top and the bottom.

The evidence of history is that the free-est countries with the widest dispersal of power have always been the most prosperous and innovative.


So back to Scotland.

It now has the opportunity to enact the same legislation, taxation and regulation that other top ten countries on that list employ, following, say, the blueprint of Singapore. It already has a rich tradition in trade, finance and banking.

It has the oil.

And, with just five million people, it is small.

It has all the ingredients to be the richest country on earth on a per capita basis. It has ‘the triple’. I can think of no other nation in the world with such a wonderful opportunity.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-an-independent-scotland-could-become-the-richest-country-on-earth-9096120.html
Reply 5725
Original post by flugelr
A brand new currency being used by a small country bordering two of the most economically powerful areas in the world - the UK (GBP) and the Eurozone (Euro) - will be independent in name only.


Perhaps if the Euro and Sterling move in union, but they won't/won't.


Kind of disproves the myth that the media is one sided.

But this seems to be a re hash of SNP claims.

If we'd be that rich, the Southe easy would be richer if it cast aside the rest of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I'd be significantly richer if I didn't have to support others with a welfare system and NHS.
Reply 5727
Original post by cowsforsale
Interesting..


Not really. One's a (possibly mocked up) press release, showing an ignorance of the distinction between using Sterling and a currency union. The other is the nationalists demonstrating their best bunker mentality.

Carney was careful not to make political judgements. He spelled out both advantages and risks of currency unions. He noted that it would entirely depend on the agreement of the UK Government, which seems unlikely to be given.

Somehow I don't imagine the Scottish Government's fiscal commission reported much on the risks.
Original post by cowsforsale
Interesting..


Nothing has changed, other than the SNP having to spin Carney's words.

It is clear (and has been to anyone with a modicum of sense) that:

The BoE will work to whatever goals its political masters give it.

A decision on currency union is a political one.

As has been learned from the euro, a currency union can only work well with either political union (as we have now, but which the Scots would be giving up) or with one state being in full command of the currency (rather like some countries' use of the US dollar, leaving the Scots with no influence, and certainly nothing approaching control, on a major factor in their economic wellbeing).

Given that the Scottish economy would be so heavily exposed to the oil and gas market ups and downs, the two economies will eventually move apart significantly, meaning that British (UK) requirements for the currency would then differ significantly from Scottish ones, to the disadvantage of Scotland.
Original post by L i b
Not really. One's a (possibly mocked up) press release, showing an ignorance of the distinction between using Sterling and a currency union. The other is the nationalists demonstrating their best bunker mentality.

Carney was careful not to make political judgements. He spelled out both advantages and risks of currency unions. He noted that it would entirely depend on the agreement of the UK Government, which seems unlikely to be given.

Somehow I don't imagine the Scottish Government's fiscal commission reported much on the risks.


That Westminster need to consent to it is great for the SNP-if they didn't get it they could continue blaming England for all their problems.


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Original post by Midlander
That Westminster need to consent to it is great for the SNP-if they didn't get it they could continue blaming England for all their problems.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Nationalists need an enemy. If one doesn't exist. Make one up.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Nationalists need an enemy. If one doesn't exist. Make one up.


'English people are great friends of Scotland-but they sometimes vote Tory' is how a Yes campaign newsletter shoved through my door put it.


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Why is it okay for Scotland to make demands and not the rUK ?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa0305d6-8a98-11e3-9c29-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by FinalMH
Why is it okay for Scotland to make demands and not the rUK ?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa0305d6-8a98-11e3-9c29-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk


The man's an idiot.

He says

You’ve got a negotiation where the UK government will want to persuade the Scottish representatives that they should take on a share of debt which is the legal liability of Her Majesty’s Treasury


while forgetting that he has a situation where territory that is legally an asset of the UK is required to allow a Scottish state to be viable.
The Scots latest hare brained scheme is to appoint a legal guardian for every child.
Original post by Midlander
'English people are great friends of Scotland-but they sometimes vote Tory' is how a Yes campaign newsletter shoved through my door put it.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Forgetting that 400,000 Scots voted Conservative.

This seems to be the problem with Scottish politics, only minority are actively involved in politics and they get very tribal.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Kind of disproves the myth that the media is one sided.


How does one piece in the Independent disprove it?

Anyway,

Dr Robertson’s team at the University of the West of Scotland spent a year, to September 2013, studying the early evening news programmes of BBC Scotland and STV.

Stories with an “anti-independence” slant outnumbered those of the pro Yes side three to two.

The BBC’s Reporting Scotland showed 272 news items that benefited the No campaign, but just 171 favourable to Yes.

STV’s early evening programme had 255 stories boosting the No side and 172 for Yes.

Newspapers often favour one political party or point of view, as is their right.

But television is different. The BBC is paid for by viewers and is governed by a Royal Charter that demands the highest standards of impartiality.


Full Report




If we'd be that rich, the Southe easy would be richer if it cast aside the rest of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.


What's your point?
Original post by cowsforsale
How does one piece in the Independent disprove it?

Anyway,



Full Report





What's your point?


So you're argument seems to be about media bias, when an SNP MSP quotes the findings of an advisor to the SNP.

You're degree of paranoia and sense of persecution is palpable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10445073/SNP-ministers-waging-dangerous-campaign-to-gag-university-academics.html
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
Nothing has changed, other than the SNP having to spin Carney's words.


Spin?

So, which one did Mr Carney favour?
He did not say directly. But given the words, “necessary foundations for a durable union”, it seems that he assumes the best option is for the Bank to become a supranational institution.
In other words, Mr Carney is closer to the position of the Scottish Government. But he was careful not to say this too explicitly.


Aren't my words or SNP's, but the words of a referendum expert :s-smilie:.

It is clear (and has been to anyone with a modicum of sense) that:


Rattled? Have I upset you :frown:...

As has been learned from the euro, a currency union can only work well with either political union (as we have now, but which the Scots would be giving up) or with one state being in full command of the currency (rather like some countries' use of the US dollar, leaving the Scots with no influence, and certainly nothing approaching control, on a major factor in their economic wellbeing).


No...

[video="youtube;qOJk4cWMf6k"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOJk4cWMf6k[/video]

Given that the Scottish economy would be so heavily exposed to the oil and gas market ups and downs, the two economies will eventually move apart significantly, meaning that British (UK) requirements for the currency would then differ significantly from Scottish ones, to the disadvantage of Scotland.



Well, only OBR predicts prices to go down. OBR was set up by the ConDem coalition and have a political motive. Plus, they've got it wrong before..

"We're assuming that there's no significant effect on the investment and production profile," Mr Chote told MPs on the Treasury Committee.


Mr Daniels said Shell is making investments that are "20-plus years in duration". To encourage investment, he stressed that the UK needs a stable tax regime. "The 2011 raid on taxes was a real disappointment and very destabilising for long-term investments in the North Sea,"


Anyway

Without oil 
we perform to the average of the UK and the best of any UK region outside the South-East. A mediocre batting average that can be so much better, but not a 
bad starting point. Add energy windfalls into the equation and the opportunity to replicate Norway’s saving, albeit on a smaller scale, remains to be achieved.


Hence an oil fund which sounds sensible.
Original post by cowsforsale
Spin?



Aren't my words or SNP's, but the words of a referendum expert :s-smilie:.



Rattled? Have I upset you :frown:...



No...

[video="youtube;qOJk4cWMf6k"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOJk4cWMf6k[/video]





Well, only OBR predicts prices to go down. OBR was set up by the ConDem coalition and have a political motive. Plus, they've got it wrong before..





Anyway



Hence an oil fund which sounds sensible.


The OBR have git things wrong in the past, but so has the YeSNP campaign.

Oil prices are volatile, but are at eat expected to remain constant, but cracking in the US are likely to lower that price.

The oil fund even by the SNPs own admission ain't going to happen.

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