Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

I'm not suggesting that at all, but you are bleating about not getting the government you desire and I just pointed out that a larger part of the UK, greater in terms of population, more significant in terms of taxes generated and under-presented compared to Scotland, also doesn't get the government it voted for.

The real point is that lots of areas of the UK don't get the government they vote for all the time and Scotland is neither special nor different.

Lots of areas in an independent Scotland wouldn't get the government they want either.

Ask the westminster government. That has nothing to do with the Yes campaign. We are simply using what powers we have to decide what we can.

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The difference is we have a superior voting system, areas as you describe have a better chance of beinv represented. You are not comparing like for like.

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Politicians are on both sides. Without sounding patronizing to yourself, all politicians lie.

Ah! You refer to the fact that Westminster has temporarily given Scots the right to hold a referendum on independence. It could just as easily do so for London, and it could just as easily revoke the Scottish powers.

How would your superior voting system ensure that Shetlanders' desires are met if they return, say, two LibDem MPs to a Scottish parliament flooded with Labour and SNP MPs from the big cities?

Where do you get the idea English people are more right wing?


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The person who wrote that article has made a fundamental mistake in that they don't seem to understand that MPs are elected on a constituency basis and not a national basis.

To say that, "Scottish MPs as an entity have had no practical influence over the composition of the UK government." is totally meaningless as Scottish MPs are not voted into the House of Commons as a single block. You might as well say, "Liverpudlian MPs as an entity have had no practical influence over the composition of the UK government."

The House of Commons is formed of individuals elected to a constituency seat. Imagine that you go to a ballot box to vote for a local representative in a small village of 4 streets. Each street elects one representative.

North Street votes for the candidate from the Orange Party, as does West Street. South Street then votes for the candidate from the Brown Party. East Street - where you live - is the final street to vote and they vote for the candidate from the Orange Party.

However, the Orange Party already has two elected representatives from North and West Street meaning that the Orange Party has a majority on the village council. Therefore does your vote, coming from East Street, not count?

Yes, of course your vote counts. The UK is a representative democracy and your representative from the Orange Party has been elected to serve on your behalf. In addition, the Orange Party have a clear majority allowing them to implement their policies. Your local representative is part of that majority that gives the local administration it's right to legislate.

Futhermore, I'd caution you against posting anything from 'Wings Over Scotland'. it's a pretty nasty website run by some very nasty people. The chap who wrote the article you've linked to there also wrote an article with the following message (http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-scotland-you-wish-to-see/),

I find that kind of lanugage in the context of an independence debate very disturbing. It is worth noting that the Yes Scotland campaign have officially distanced themselves from 'Wings Over Scotland' because of it's intolerant, discriminatory and bigoted material.
(http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/yes-campaign-distance-themselves-pro-independence-2266858)


The decline of heavy industry was apparent decades before Thatcher came to power.


How so?


Will England necessarily want to trade with us to the same extent after we've just stuck two fingers up at them?


You're right, but all of us know at least one or two people who are fanatically anti-English. As Scots (whether in the UK or independent) it is our duty to stamp down on these people and stop their vile beliefs from spreading.

So what!

Greater London, with a population 50% greater than Scotland and a GDP 30% greater than that of Scotland, though with only 23% more MPs, didn't get the government it voted for either. Are you suggesting it should go for independence too?

I do not actually have a genuine disliking towards England - my point was that whether or not a person dislikes England is not a reason to vote for or against independence so stop trying to turn this into Scotland versus England! It was an anti-independence poster that decided to bring that up, not me. You clearly took it out of context. I don't care who posted the facts, facts are facts. Can people please stop rambling on about constituency crap?! I know how it works and my point was that Scotland as a whole has no effect on general elections - we do not have to go into constituencies to identify that. Scotland, GENERALLY, is a Labour country. Labour achieve the majority of the seats (41 compared to the Conservative's 1 and LibDems 11) therefore we are LABOUR! You don't have to go into constituencies to identify that. This anti-English argument is simply untrue spiralled from egocentrism. Would people stop flattering themselves into believing that this is all about English rivalry when it's quite blatantly about the fact that London controls the whole of the UK. Why else would several Englishmen befriend Scots and encourage them to escape the union while they have the chance.

And London is closer to Paris than Edinburgh yet here we are. Scotland don't want the tories yet we are being governed under them. What about the people who do want an independent Scotland and probably wont get it? People never voted Conservatives/LibDems nor against independence so they probably wont have anything benefit them. Who's looking out for those people in this?

What has GDP got to do with this? I'm sure you are not suggesting that having a higher GDP (if thats even true) means you should somehow have more of a say. Why mention GDP?

Well if it wants to yeh! All they have to do is form a party that will fight for a greater london government with devolved powers, then vote a party into power that promises a referendum on greater londons independence, then get a majority in a system designed to prevent it! If it can gather support for that then go for it haha!

They are more right wing because first of all I am English unfortunately and live in one of the most conservative areas in England. It a place that was only famous for changing its vote to liberal democrat in the early 1960's. Also I've looked the election charts and there has never been a conservative member of parliament (I'm 90% sure but please correct me if I'm wrong). The SNP economic policies are quite socialist in nature, Scottish tuition fees have remained low despite pressure from Westminister so please don't tell me the English aren't more conservative.

I watched a question night a couple of months a go when they discussed whether to leave GB. One of the main arguments put forward was that Scotland should leave due to English conservatism, after all I think 5 out of 7 labour majorities in elections were only achieved through the Scottish vote (Election of Scottish MP's). If I was Scottish I would leave, sick of the English conservatives and new labour.

Every human on earth lies. The question is simply of how significant the lies are. I feel the UK as a whole has significantly bigger and dirtier skeleton filled cupboards than people realise, or that people have exposure to.

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Ah, so when Holyrood tell fibs it's fine?


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Its not fine, not one bit. Its just that there is plenty of evidence out there of westminsters dubious actions and decisions. Hollyrood does not seem to have them anywhere close to that scale.

And to the poster who keeps going on about 6 SNP MP'S. Its not surprising...there is literally no point in anyone voting SNP in a general election. Some argue its a vote for tory really...we need to votr labour to have any chance of noy getting a right wing party.

I come from a city which has returned 3 Labour MPs (and a socialist) for 40 years. Labour has not needed Scotland to get in and the socialist policies put in place by the SNP are made possible a) by Barnett formula funding and b) because the demand for places at Scottish universities is so much smaller. Note that these universities immediately raised their RUK fees to £9k because they make such a loss on Scots.

Vast swathes of England are not nailed on Tory seats and Brighton elected a Green in 2010. To brand English people as inherently more Tory is just plain daft.


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The land area of ALL Labour's English seats would barely cover East Sussex, West Sussex and Kent!