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The Arsenal Thread XIX

We need a DM as well or we will just get sliced and diced in the big games again. All this talk of Arteta being offered and extra year is making me sick. He needs to go now.

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What did losing the big games have to do with a dm :|

Looks like we're after Lars bender for **** sake can we not get one star player this season every time you get your hopes up with the links to Vidal and javi Martinez you're brought back down to earth

Reply 9541

Peggles_*

13

Original post by baconbutty

What did losing the big games have to do with a dm :|

Looks like we're after Lars bender for **** sake can we not get one star player this season every time you get your hopes up with the links to Vidal and javi Martinez you're brought back down to earth

It was more not having one. Our midfield was non existent, those games just passed Mik by. His legs have gone.

We need to move on from Lars, we've been after Lars for two seasons and Bayer have told us to look elsewhere.

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Reply 9542

AR_95

21

Butty has a point in the fact that the losses weren't solely down to a defensive DM, or a world class striker though. Our tactics were completely wrong

Reply 9543

Vae

15

Original post by sevchenko

It's not Sanchez fault he was being used in a system that was design spoon feed Messi. Is it any surprise the he excelled when Messi was injured or that he that regularly kills it Chile. Just because he didn't deliver the goods at Barca doesn't diminish his quality.

It's more of a positional question, or question of what role he's supposed to play. What made Alexis struggle at Barça before this season was having to play a role that doesn't suit him, i.e. that of a scoring (and not supporting) wing-forward with little to no creative duty, a position that really wastes most of Alexis' qualities. If anything Alexis could be described as a creative inside forward, he thrives in a system where he gets creative responsibility and positional freedom, so what troubled his play at Barça (other than the fact that with Barça's creative midfield you don't really need further creatie input) was not Messi per se, but rather having a false 9 type of player next to him, i.e. a forward that creates his own chances and needs little creative support. Arsenal do not have that atm, but Arsenal do play with a trequartista in Özil, so unless the system is changed a bit or Alexis simply replaces Cazorla and shares the creative work with Özil, him on the wing in a walcottesque role would waste his qualities just as much as they were wasted at Barça.

So if you expect something like this

Original post by Zürich

Atm we have 1 proper winger in Walcott and everyone knows how little pace we have so a top winger like Sanchez at £30m is a great idea I think.

..then that's not really what Alexis will bring you, imo. He's not really a winger in the Walcott sense and he's not someone like Pedro to stretch play, run up and down the flank and behind the opponent's defence to pick up a pass there. If you played him on the left wing now without altering the player roles, he'd probably just take over Cazorla's role, i.e. cutting inside a lot and interchanging with Özil to participate in the creative buildup. He's an upgrade to Cazorla so that alone is an improvement, but if the set-up stays the same I don't think it'd get the absolute best ouf of him, or Arsenal for that matter.

So I doubt any of the positions in the current set-up would be ideal for Alexis. Playing him up front as the only striker doesn't make too much sense if you play Özil behind him, both like to take the creative duty and roam in the same areas, so unless Özil and him take turns as the false 9 I can see Alexis being isolated there. He's not an incredibly lethal finisher either. On the other hand, playing him on the wing expecting him to stretch play and provide pace would be wasting his main assets. I think the system would need to be tweaked a bit for him to replicate his Cihle form, but the fact that Wenger is willing to pay around €40m for him leads me to think that that's what he plans to do anyway, otherwise he could have gotten Vela and be done with it.

What I can see working is Alexis up front next to another striker like at Chile (not like Giroud is the ideal partner though) or in a 4312 (similar to what Barça played without Messi) with him & Walcott up front. He could also start in midfield. That said and to put things into perspective, I think what would suit him at Arsenal is the fact that Wenger gives freedom to his creative players and doesn't really demand tactical strictness or rigidness from them, so even in the current system you could still play him anywhere in the front 3 or 4 and expect a season similar to the one he just had at Barça, so I don't see a problem, especially considering he'll get more space in the PL. Of course you'd want the Chile Alexis though, not the Barça Alexis, but we'll see what AW will do.

Would be a huge signing either way and there are several possibilities to make it work out fine, so the move makes sense.

Original post by jam278

However I feel that he needs more of the creative role to get the best out of him, so I think Ozil again will be a problem for Sanchez, you'll probably end up getting a system that gets the best out of Ozil and not Sanchez presuming you bought him. Sanchez is known to perform best as a creative spark down the middle, he's not really a striker so won't play up top, more a creative forward than a striker. Although that seems exactly like the kind of player Wenger would buy and play in the wrong position(Arshavin e.g.), Sanchez has a good work rate so I don't see Arshavin MkII happening.

What made you chage your mind then? Last time we were discussing him you argued that the way Tata used him on the wing was getting the best/most out of him.

Also don't see how Alexis seems like that kind of player, AW has been interested in him for a long time even when he didn't need a striker, so I think it's more a case of - player becomes available - snatch him!, like in Özil's case. Don't think it's a question of "forward or Alexis" either, didn't really expect AW to go all out for an expensive top striker anyway (not like there are many available) so buying Alexis doesn't necessarily change anything in that regard.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9544

Peggles_*

13

Original post by AR_95

Butty has a point in the fact that the losses weren't solely down to a defensive DM, or a world class striker though. Our tactics were completely wrong

Lol, you'd think after 1 beating the manager would learn, let alone 3. No. Here is an idea, maybe the players that you really need to stand up and be counted on occasions like that are not good enough?

Tactics are dependent on the players you have. If you have a skilful, pacey attacking winger, with all the trickery, don't stick them in the centre of the midfield with an ageing and slowing 'dm' who more often than not is caught out of position.

But be my guest if you want to persist with Arteta are our holding midfielder, just don't be pissed when we are getting beatings again.

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(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 9545

AR_95

21

Original post by Peggles_*

Fair enough but the tactics are dependent on the players you have. If you have flamboyant, attacking wingers, with skill and trickery, don't stick them in the centre of the midfield with an ageing and slowing 'dm' who more often than not is caught out of position.

But be my guest if you want to persist with Arteta are our holding midfielder, just don't be pissed when we are getting beatings again.

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There is no chance in hell I would be happy with Arteta starting for us next season :lol:

Reply 9546

baconbutty

Original post by Peggles_*

It was more not having one. Our midfield was non existent, those games just passed Mik by. His legs have gone.

We need to move on from Lars, we've been after Lars for two seasons and Bayer have told us to look elsewhere.

Posted from TSR Mobile

The big losses weren't anything to do with a dm Tbf

City it was losing the ball in stupid places/not closing down

Liverpool set pieces/losing the ball in stupid places again (ozil again)

Chelsea was awful attacking tactics having 8 men ahead of the ball 10 mins in is pretty funny. Even funnier that the same thing happened 3 times within 10 mins with them breaking on us

Reply 9547

419

OP

14

Original post by samba

Sanchez would be a class signing for the Arse. Don't need much of a brain to realise that.

When you've got an agenda to **** on arsenal of course it is.

As you've seen as well quite a few people are willing to encourage this propaganda.

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Reply 9548

baconbutty

Original post by 419

When you've got an agenda to **** on arsenal of course it is.

As you've seen as well quite a few people are willing to encourage this propaganda.

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Or maybe different people have different opinions

Get your head out your ass

Reply 9549

qwerty_mad

13

Original post by baconbutty

The big losses weren't anything to do with a dm Tbf

City it was losing the ball in stupid places/not closing down

Liverpool set pieces/losing the ball in stupid places again (ozil again)

Chelsea was awful attacking tactics having 8 men ahead of the ball 10 mins in is pretty funny. Even funnier that the same thing happened 3 times within 10 mins with them breaking on us

I think against Liverpool and Chelsea we started too gung-ho. If you look at the first couple of goals (Sturridge's and Schurlle's), Gibbs and Sagna left acres of space out wide, leaving only Kosc and Mert against the attack

But the bottom line was we got blown away in those two games; with City I think 6-3 flattered them.

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Reply 9550

419

OP

14

Original post by baconbutty

Or maybe different people have different opinions

Get your head out your ass

Wait, you're now going to toe this line. Mr I'm here to call out people's delusion and know it all? :yy:

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Reply 9551

baconbutty

Original post by qwerty_mad

I think against Liverpool and Chelsea we started too gung-ho. If you look at the first couple of goals (Sturridge's and Schurlle's), Gibbs and Sagna left acres of space out wide, leaving only Kosc and Mert against the attack

But the bottom line was we got blown away in those two games; with City I think 6-3 flattered them.

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They missed loads of chances Tbf 6-3 wasn't flattering

Reply 9552

baconbutty

Original post by 419

Wait, you're now going to toe this line. Mr I'm here to call out people's delusion and know it all? :yy:

Posted from TSR Mobile

I'm just here for the same reason as the rest of you to share my opinion. How about you start respecting my opinion because all I want is what's best for the mighty reds

OP

Don't really know why we're bothering with Lars again. Hopefully just paper talk, Wenger isn't one that's persistent and generally knows what no means.

Original post by baconbutty

I'm just here for the same reason as the rest of you to share my opinion. How about you start respecting my opinion because all I want is what's best for the mighty reds

I promise you, you're only kidding those people that love their anti arsenal talk.

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Reply 9555

baconbutty

Original post by 419

Don't really know why we're bothering with Lars again. Hopefully just paper talk, Wenger isn't one that's persistent and generally knows what no means.

I promise you, you're only kidding those people that love their anti arsenal talk.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I don't give a rats ass who you think is kidding who the fact of the matter is I'm a fully fledged ****ing gunner

Do I respect chelsea and city? Yes

Do I hate van persie, fabregas etc for moving on to better things? No I ****ing don't I was happy van persie won a pl title if any arsenal player deserved it it was him.

Fabregas is an arsenal legend and if I hear any fans give him **** at the emirates I'm gonna bash some ****ing skulls in

Reply 9556

AR_95

21

Original post by baconbutty

Fabregas is an arsenal legend and if I hear any fans give him **** at the emirates I'm gonna bash some ****ing skulls in

Most likely you wont

Reply 9557

baconbutty

Original post by AR_95

Most likely you wont

Ever been to the emirates mate?

Reply 9558

username912610

2

Original post by baconbutty

I don't give a rats ass who you think is kidding who the fact of the matter is I'm a fully fledged ****ing gunner

Do I respect chelsea and city? Yes

Do I hate van persie, fabregas etc for moving on to better things? No I ****ing don't I was happy van persie won a pl title if any arsenal player deserved it it was him.

Fabregas is an arsenal legend and if I hear any fans give him **** at the emirates I'm gonna bash some ****ing skulls in