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The Arsenal Thread XXIII
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Original post by Zürich
Our style of play isnt that high up the pitch tbh, most of the time it's pretty moderate and we've never ever relied on a sweeper keeper or anything like that.
I think Cech's leadership will be invaluable. In that Monaco game when we were messing about and losing the head I'd like to think he'd have taken a few touches on the ball to calm it all down etc.
Would consider giving Cech the captaincy tbh.
I think Cech's leadership will be invaluable. In that Monaco game when we were messing about and losing the head I'd like to think he'd have taken a few touches on the ball to calm it all down etc.
Would consider giving Cech the captaincy tbh.
It will be higher up now that I think we will probably try to phase Per out and bring Gabriel in. In quite a few games this season we have played a high line, with Per sitting a bit further back on his own, but with Gabriel/Bellerin/Koscielny/either LB we have the pace to push up.
Oh definitely, and after Ox scored his banger Cech would've made sure we kept our defensive structure, instead of piling all 10 outfield men into their half like a bunch of 8 year olds playing on a school playground. I wouldn't give him the captaincy yet simply because he was a Chelsea boy for 11 years, and probably always will be at heart. Maybe in a year or two when he has settled in, but right now I'd give it to Santi or Koscielny.
Original post by Arkasia
It will be higher up now that I think we will probably try to phase Per out and bring Gabriel in. In quite a few games this season we have played a high line, with Per sitting a bit further back on his own, but with Gabriel/Bellerin/Koscielny/either LB we have the pace to push up.
Oh definitely, and after Ox scored his banger Cech would've made sure we kept our defensive structure, instead of piling all 10 outfield men into their half like a bunch of 8 year olds playing on a school playground. I wouldn't give him the captaincy yet simply because he was a Chelsea boy for 11 years, and probably always will be at heart. Maybe in a year or two when he has settled in, but right now I'd give it to Santi or Koscielny.
Oh definitely, and after Ox scored his banger Cech would've made sure we kept our defensive structure, instead of piling all 10 outfield men into their half like a bunch of 8 year olds playing on a school playground. I wouldn't give him the captaincy yet simply because he was a Chelsea boy for 11 years, and probably always will be at heart. Maybe in a year or two when he has settled in, but right now I'd give it to Santi or Koscielny.
Guy seems to be 100% professional. Dont expect him to become Mr.Arsenal but he'd do everything a captain ought to.
Mertesacker is a decent de facto captain tbf.
Original post by Zürich
Guy seems to be 100% professional. Dont expect him to become Mr.Arsenal but he'd do everything a captain ought to.
Mertesacker is a decent de facto captain tbf.
Mertesacker is a decent de facto captain tbf.
Oh yeah I expect him to be professional, and he might make a good captain, but I'm not sure the sentiment is right, giving a Chelsea legend the captaincy immediately after he joined. Again, perhaps in a year or so.
Mertesacker just doesn't seem...lively enough tbh. Even his smiles and celebrations look like a terminator trying to replicate human emotions. Arteta is a good captain because he is one of the most professional players in football at the moment, but I wouldn't consider Per a decent full-time replacement. He has the benefit of always being fit, but I feel Kos could do a lot more in organizing defence and injecting energy.
Original post by Zürich
Ramsey played there because Walcott and AOC were injured. He wont be starting at RW next season obviously.
Lacazette is the only realistic vaguely-top striker that's out there for us atm really. I'd have taken Mandzukic tbh.
Lacazette is the only realistic vaguely-top striker that's out there for us atm really. I'd have taken Mandzukic tbh.
Benzema....
Marca saying William Carvalho is our main target
Original post by Mackay
Worth remembering VDS was 18 months OLDER than Cech is now when he signed for United, and he didn't do too badly did he?
VDS had one of the all-time best PL partnerships in front of him at the time, and solid LB and RB who did their primary jobs really well - can't really say the same about Arsenal. Only defensive player in their squad that is anywhere near world class (on their day) is Koscielny, with clear daylight between him and the rest.
Original post by The Shed End
VDS had one of the all-time best PL partnerships in front of him at the time, and solid LB and RB who did their primary jobs really well - can't really say the same about Arsenal. Only defensive player in their squad that is anywhere near world class (on their day) is Koscielny, with clear daylight between him and the rest.
Yer and the current Utd GK has Valencia, Evans, Smalling and Shaw in front on him and performs at a WC level. Neuer performed at a world class level with Mertesacker, Boateng, Howedes. Cech himself was GOAT playing with Luiz, Bosingwa, Bertrand, Cahill in front. Jens Lehmann went 1000 CL minutes without conceding with Eboue, Clichy, Senderos, Cygan, Flamini making up his last line of defence
GKs influence their defence more than the reverse. Regardless, not sure why Cech should be any less commanding coming for crosses, in his positioning and judgement etc etc. John Terry doesnt tell him how to goalkeep
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
Casillas is not a top GK and hasnt been for about 4 years.
There are 2 kinds of GK:
-Short 6'0-6'2 keepers who are brilliant shot stoppers with quick reactions and rely on these attributes to make a career.
-Tall 6'5+ commanding keepers who simply have presence and assurance and command the box and read the game.
Once you get to 30, the first type go down hill quickly because they lose the agility. The second type never lose the presence however, and with experience often get better. Their stop stopping was never based on quick reactions in any case, but on reading of the game This is why Casillas and Given were finished by age 32 whereas VDS, Seaman, Kahn went to 40. Cech is very much in that camp too and I fully expect 3-5 seasons out of him.
You cant underestimate the knock on effect of Cech on our defenders too. In set pieces for instance he'll organise our players to a degree we havent had for a decade and generally inspire confidence and assurance. I can think of about 4 goals from last season already that Cech would have organised us to handle. Definitely wouldnt have let Gomis for Swansea hang in the air like he did for instance or messed about like we did for Liverpool's last minute goal at Anfield.
There are 2 kinds of GK:
-Short 6'0-6'2 keepers who are brilliant shot stoppers with quick reactions and rely on these attributes to make a career.
-Tall 6'5+ commanding keepers who simply have presence and assurance and command the box and read the game.
Once you get to 30, the first type go down hill quickly because they lose the agility. The second type never lose the presence however, and with experience often get better. Their stop stopping was never based on quick reactions in any case, but on reading of the game This is why Casillas and Given were finished by age 32 whereas VDS, Seaman, Kahn went to 40. Cech is very much in that camp too and I fully expect 3-5 seasons out of him.
You cant underestimate the knock on effect of Cech on our defenders too. In set pieces for instance he'll organise our players to a degree we havent had for a decade and generally inspire confidence and assurance. I can think of about 4 goals from last season already that Cech would have organised us to handle. Definitely wouldnt have let Gomis for Swansea hang in the air like he did for instance or messed about like we did for Liverpool's last minute goal at Anfield.
Rubbish. Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Dino Zoff were all 6"2 or less and played into their 40s at a high level. Keepers like Dida, even Buffon before his Indian summer this season have had slumps despite being tall.
I wonder what happens to the 6'3 and 6'4 keepers
Original post by Toussaint
Rubbish. Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Dino Zoff were all 6"2 or less and played into their 40s at a high level. Keepers like Dida, even Buffon before his Indian summer this season have had slumps despite being tall.
Height is just a convenient proxy to differentiate between keepers which rely on reflexes and those that rely on presence. Not saying all tall keepers have longevity, just that the ones who always had presence etc tend to last. If one of your primary attributes is claiming crosses for instance, then this will last longer than an attribute like reaction saves.
Look at Shay Given and Casillas and look at VDS and Buffon. The difference in styles is like night and day.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by difeo
I wonder what happens to the 6'3 and 6'4 keepers
There are none. They don't exist. Source:
Original post by Zürich
There are 2 kinds of GK:-Short 6'0-6'2 keepers -Tall 6'5+ commanding keepers
Cech's made plenty of mistakes tbh, hasn't ever been the best at keeping out one on one's which is what defence with a BFG the speed of a slug will leave you supsectable to. However his reactions are fantastic and obviously his height and reach are a big advantage, his shot stopping his second to none which are essentially the same traits as De Gea.
The seasons we had Luiz/Bosingwa/Cahill and Betrand in front of him we finished 6th in the league /parked the bus and became a unit to win the CL, and we're knocked out of the CL when we actually tried to play high lines and had poor defensive performances. Being a bit selective with your defensive choices as well - pretty sure you were successful when you had Keowne, a decent Kolo Toure, Campbell and Ashley Cole.
De Gea this season is a bit of an aberration. Never seen a keeper outperform the players he's had in front of him to anywhere near the level he has this season.
The seasons we had Luiz/Bosingwa/Cahill and Betrand in front of him we finished 6th in the league /parked the bus and became a unit to win the CL, and we're knocked out of the CL when we actually tried to play high lines and had poor defensive performances. Being a bit selective with your defensive choices as well - pretty sure you were successful when you had Keowne, a decent Kolo Toure, Campbell and Ashley Cole.
De Gea this season is a bit of an aberration. Never seen a keeper outperform the players he's had in front of him to anywhere near the level he has this season.
But Buffon is more than just presence keeper, he has reflex and many shot stopping highlight reels to rival e.g. Casilas. Same with Casilas, you don't become captain of Spain when man like Puyol exist if you don't have presence. Heck, isn't he hated now by a lot of people because he had the 'presence' to stand up to Jose.
Yeah it's simplistic to say that goalkeepers are categorised into agility vs presence when there is a lot more to it. With Casillas, his decision making has notably gotten worse, ie. he came out for crosses he didn't have a hope with at the World Cup and champions league final. You can pick other areas with other goalies.
Original post by difeo
He didn't say that
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8624846.stm
Yes, I know, misuse of quotation marks.
Original post by sr90
They had no money cos of their stadium
You honestly think Wenger would have chose to sign Denilson, Eboue, Chamakh, Silvestre etc if he was able to sign anyone else?
Posted from TSR Mobile
You honestly think Wenger would have chose to sign Denilson, Eboue, Chamakh, Silvestre etc if he was able to sign anyone else?
Posted from TSR Mobile
It seemed like every season they had money, and every season even more because Wenger sometimes didn't spend much of it. I remember a few years ago Arsenal being full of money, and Wenger didn't spend it, where did it go?
Original post by AR_95
It's an obvious troll, why reply
Grow up.
Original post by Neverdie
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8624846.stm
Yes, I know, misuse of quotation marks.
It seemed like every season they had money, and every season even more because Wenger sometimes didn't spend much of it. I remember a few years ago Arsenal being full of money, and Wenger didn't spend it, where did it go?
Grow up.
Yes, I know, misuse of quotation marks.
It seemed like every season they had money, and every season even more because Wenger sometimes didn't spend much of it. I remember a few years ago Arsenal being full of money, and Wenger didn't spend it, where did it go?
Grow up.
Arsenal have higher cash reserves than any club in Europe, of about £175m.
FFP dont mean **** in N5
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by The Shed End
De Gea this season is a bit of an aberration. Never seen a keeper outperform the players he's had in front of him to anywhere near the level he has this season.
Shay Given did it all the time at Newcastle. How many keepers get MOTM when their team loses 5-1 at home?
For a top club it's pretty much unheard of though.
Original post by Neverdie
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8624846.stm
Yes, I know, misuse of quotation marks.
Yes, I know, misuse of quotation marks.
And he didn't even imply that, he just said La Liga was less competitive which was true at the time
Original post by atom y humber
But Buffon is more than just presence keeper, he has reflex and many shot stopping highlight reels to rival e.g. Casilas. Same with Casilas, you don't become captain of Spain when man like Puyol exist if you don't have presence. Heck, isn't he hated now by a lot of people because he had the 'presence' to stand up to Jose.
He's only really hated by Perez and Mourinho for that(small Madrid sections who supported Mourinho) and even then Real were so willing to sell Diego Lopez after a good 18 months and keep Casillas as first choice while he manages to find ways to **** up Reals title chances. He's more hated now because he's declined so badly since the time of his finger injury in early 2013 that caused him to lose his place in the side as a rotation option in 13/14.
Obviously you can and will have traits of the two if you are a top goalkeeper, plus the term 'presence' is quite loosely defined, I don't think height is the determining factor for presence, although it can certainly help. Courtois' presence e.g. is helped a lot by his height, he comes off his line quite a bit during corners and free kicks because he knows 8/10 times he's going to get 2 hands on the ball when it goes into his area. This obviously gives a psychological advantage, on corners players will want to curl the ball away from the goal as they're scared Courtois will just catch, you'd want a taller man on the keeper, which means that there's one less tall guy there to attack the ball with a run. The opposition are more likely to spend more time thinking about where to place their shots rather than act on instinct. That's obviously down to the fact he's the same height as a shooting guard. Neuer e.g. has that same presence(see Welbeck vs Neuer lol), but his other presence as a keeper is down to his sweeper keeping/distribution. It's more a mental thing if anything, a keeper can have a psychological edge over you due to their ability, which makes an opposition player believe the keeper is unbeatable, which subsequently makes him unbeatable as the opposition aren't confident in their ability. De Gea this season probably is a prime example of that. Casillas in his best days you would also say had a presence. That's what makes a good shot stopper(i.e. most keepers playing at the top divisions) turn into a WC goalkeeper.
I feel you never had that with Ospina. I don't really think teams in the PL crapped themselves of the prospect of being 1 on 1 with Ospina, but I can bet you that they will with Cech.
Speaking of presence, when I play 5 a side in goal I'm probably the biggest definition of a presence keeper. Mid game you have the opposition saying I'm unbeatable, or get called a cat when all I do is literally position myself.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Neverdie
Use the internet for fun, not conflict.
Can you please take your own advice?
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