Shadow Chancellor is Tory-lite!

Original post by jacktrex

You lot are being silly, you don't have to be 'right wing' to want to spend within your means, it just means you agree that if you do spend more you have to tax more. Labour didn't overspend, they undertaxed.

That's an interesting take on spending money you don't have by borrowing it.

Reply 6

The whole 'spending within your means' narrative is dumb.

Reply 7

Original post by Davij038

Not actually that surprised- Syyrizas ex finance minister was quite complimentary about Osbornes policy (if you ignore the class war comments)

What he was saying is that real austerity like that practiced in Greece stuck in the eurozone is awful and those like Osborne know it. Hence why he reversed it when it didn't work and made things worse. But the austerity narrative exists and has a strong hold on people's minds so everything is framed round this. So the Tories will just use it to cut stuff they want to cut regardless fo whether it is good for the overall economics, like welfare benefit etc and just generally reducing the size of the state, but all packaged as austerity. Class warfare and was unapologetic referee to as propaganda in the olden days.

But yeah, Syrizia whilst a left wing party were actually proposing very moderate not inherently left wing policy changes with Greece and the Troika that had backing from economists from all over the political spectrum. But if they were not portrayed as loony communists people might start getting sympathetic and @MatureStudent36 wouldn't be able to say how stupid they were :no:

They know the status quo isn't working with Greece but they just want to set an example, it didn't matter what Syrizia said. It's like when the west was all about installing dictators in south america to stop pesky democracy spreading.

In this case Mcdonald is engaging that narrative. Unlike Osborne I trust him more not to mindless go down the pretend free market sell everything off take away welfare route and do something else. Which is better than nothing.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 8

MatureStudent36

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

What he was saying is that real austerity like that practiced in Greece stuck in the eurozone is awful and those like Osborne know it. Hence why he reversed it when it didn't work and made things worse. But the austerity narrative exists and has a strong hold on people's minds so everything is framed round this. So the Tories will just use it to cut stuff they want to cut regardless fo whether it is good for the overall economics, like welfare benefit etc and just generally reducing the size of the state, but all packaged as austerity. Class warfare and was unapologetic referee to as propaganda in the olden days.

But yeah, Syrizia whilst a left wing party were actually proposing very moderate not inherently left wing policy changes with Greece and the Troika that had backing from economists from all over the political spectrum. But if they were not portrayed as loony communists people might start getting sympathetic and @MatureStudent36 wouldn't be able to say how stupid they were :no:

They know the status quo isn't working with Greece but they just want to set an example, it didn't matter what Syrizia said. It's like when the west was all about installing dictators in south america to stop pesky democracy spreading.

In this case Mcdonald is engaging that narrative. Unlike Osborne I trust him more not to mindless go down the pretend free market sell everything off take away welfare route and do something else. Which is better than nothing.

And yet all that syrizia has done is bring misery to the Greek people.

Reply 9

Original post by MatureStudent36

And yet all that syrizia has done is bring misery to the Greek people.

Oh, hello there :innocent:

Ye, because they are continuing to implement what their last CONSERVATIVE government did which is what is being forced onto them by German lead euorzone which is not some massive left wing movement.

See, you just think in terms of partisan politics. Right is good left is bad, I don't have to think now. Greece is a case study of how bad austerity can really **** up a country. But noooooo, when austerity is implemented by a left wing government it is bad and to be apposed. What Syrizia are doing now on the main is no different from that of what their New Democracy party would do. If you got them to witch places and do the exact same thing you would completely reverse your opinion. Syrizia are doing what you want now. Stop moaning.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 10

username402722

19

Given the SNP strength, boundary changes and individual registration, this is all academic as the Tories will win in 2020.

Get over it.

Reply 11

Gears265

Original post by barnetlad

Given the SNP strength, boundary changes and individual registration, this is all academic as the Tories will win in 2020.

Get over it.

Well if you speak to the left wingers on here, they say Corbyn will win an overall majority in England alone, SNP will take all of Scotland and greens will take around 90 seats. They actually believe this.

Reply 12

username402722

19

Original post by Gears265

Well if you speak to the left wingers on here, they say Corbyn will win an overall majority in England alone, SNP will take all of Scotland and greens will take around 90 seats. They actually believe this.

I would have welcomed the appointment of Maria Eagle as the first woman of the largest opposition party or government to hold the post. Appointing your campaign leader is what John Major did with Norman Lamont, who was probably the worst Chancellor in living memory.

My thought as to the next election is that Labour will only gain around 10 seats at most in Scotland, lose 15 to 20 in England with boundary changes, and maybe 5 to 10 to the Lib Dems, Greens or where UKIP came second. So 232 seats in 2015 translates to around 215-220 with those changes. Will Labour gain 110 seats in England and Wales? I do not think so- it's more seats outside Scotland than they achieved in 2005.

Reply 13

Gears265

Original post by barnetlad

I would have welcomed the appointment of Maria Eagle as the first woman of the largest opposition party or government to hold the post. Appointing your campaign leader is what John Major did with Norman Lamont, who was probably the worst Chancellor in living memory.

My thought as to the next election is that Labour will only gain around 10 seats at most in Scotland, lose 15 to 20 in England with boundary changes, and maybe 5 to 10 to the Lib Dems, Greens or where UKIP came second. So 232 seats in 2015 translates to around 215-220 with those changes. Will Labour gain 110 seats in England and Wales? I do not think so- it's more seats outside Scotland than they achieved in 2005.

I believe nationalism has swept Scotland completely and forgetting the numbers I agree with you, but I am just pointing out the Corbyn camp actually believes this will happen as I outlined before

Reply 14

ibzombie96

OP

17

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

The whole 'spending within your means' narrative is dumb.

Will you vote Labour now they've adopted that line?

Reply 15

illegaltobepoor

19

Question is will the Tories behave like Tories instead of this Blue Colar Conservatism.

If Tories are going to win in 2020 why not bring in some real nasty politics. Bring in a new Poll Tax or make the disabled work for £1 a hour and young work for £2 a hour.

Reply 16