Death penalty

Original post by Iasona

Shamima Begum didn't commit murder though. I think I'd only support it if a murder had been committed and can be proven without doubt.

She did however willingly join a terrorist group (a foreign proto state no less) which had committed acts of untold depravity and murder and had stated imperial ambitions and opposition to our way of life. She also did willingly marry a terrorist, at the very least providing him with comfort if not aiding and abetting.

She is a traitor to the British state and a vile, inferior member of our species. For that she deserves nothing less than to be hung as an example for all those who would defy their nation in the name of radical islam.

Reply 22

Original post by Burton Bridge

Only thing is when we return to stocks and flogging for stealing we enter a slippery slope back to chopping off limbs for straving people trying to acquire food.

Whats light? a light smack on the legs/arse etc. In what circumstance, mainly as a parental tool to bring back respect and discipline which has nose dived since its abolishment.

I don't think that's likely to happen. Whilst I do think the 'slippery slope' argument is real * I think finding a healthy middle point is possible.

*(for instance I think the "tolerance" crowd will move onto normalising necrophilia and Bestiality soon enough)

Yeah agreed. Light smacking in done cases is both justified and necessary. Kids have no respect for teachers. In my comprehensive I saw students smoking in class, swearing at teachers and mindless vandalism (even saw a student urinate on a hapless French teacher once) with no consequence. That said a student did get expelled for calling a teacher a rude abbreviation of Pakistani so it at least had some standards...🙄

Reply 23

Joleee

19

the majority of the UK does not support the death penalty tho, not according to the survey provided by op. they only support it in specific circumstances, namely terrorism.

says the survey about British opinion - 'a third (34%) say all types of murder should be met with the ultimate penalty, 45% are opposed.

yet when it comes to extreme cases, such as acts murder undertaken as part of terrorism, nearly six in ten Britons (58%) back the death penalty for such a crime with a third (32%) opposed.'

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/legal/articles-reports/2019/10/01/brits-want-harsher-punishments-criminals

the survey also says the majority of people believe crime is on the rise, when in reality - it isn't. it's on the decrease (figure 1)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2020#:~:text=Total%20police%20recorded%20crime%20decreased,April%20to%20June%202020%20period%2C

which just goes to show how ignorant the average person is regarding crime and punishment. people also tend to typically think the death penalty is cheaper than a lifetime in prison, when in reality it isn't :nah:

. it costs somewhere between 48-70 percent more.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/

that's because it's way more expensive cuz of all the appeals and legal hoops you have to jump through to secure a death sentence, and rightfully so. in any shape or form should taking a life ever be taken lightly. now if the average person were to be informed of the actual procedure to secure a convicted offender's death, potentially they might think differently in a survey, but potentially not. the average person definitely doesn't reason personal politics pragmatically. it's all about their emotions, including fear and satisfaction of justice so they can make sense of the world.

(btw this is coming from someone not opposed to the death penalty. i can think of some severe scumbags including this guy whose crime is so awful i can't even say it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/06/reynhard-sinaga-jailed-life-drugging-raping-men-manchester ).

we'd also have to leave the ECHR which makes right to life an absolute. also it might be fine and dandy to secure the death penalty for terrorists, but majority of terrorists are on a suicide mission so wouldn't help anyway, or the country they committed the terrorist act in doesn't have jurisdiction to prosecute.

Reply 24

Original post by Joleee

the majority of the UK does not support the death penalty tho, not according to the survey provided by op. they only support it in specific circumstances, namely terrorism..

So they do support it then, everybody who supports it for 'specific circumstances' ... 🤣🤣🤣

We should leave the ECHR and get rid of laws and regulations that make execution costly. Execution should generally be used where there is little to no doubt that they committed the crime

Reply 25

username5604436

OP

Original post by Starship Trooper

So they do support it then, everybody who supports it for 'specific circumstances' ... 🤣🤣🤣

We should leave the ECHR and get rid of laws and regulations that make execution costly. Execution should generally be used where there is little to no doubt that they committed the crime

The UK actually was one of the main advocates of the ECHR. For some reason the UK government find it impossible to even deport terrorists or criminals. Denmark and Germany now even deport asylum seekers back to Syria if they dare commit a crime. High time they sort that out first.

Reply 26

Joleee

19

Original post by Starship Trooper

So they do support it then, everybody who supports it for 'specific circumstances' ... 🤣🤣🤣

We should leave the ECHR and get rid of laws and regulations that make execution costly. Execution should generally be used where there is little to no doubt that they committed the crime

to regurgitate, no the average citizen does not support the death penalty unless it's an act of terrorism. the average citizen also does not understand the criminal justice system nor the costs involved with it; so you're basically asking a bunch of ignorant people for their opinions based on what? their emotions :cry:

you want to leave the ECHR and get rid of laws that protect the right to life. you do realise that ending a person's life is the ultimate decision cuz you can't go backward - once you're dead - therefore it cannot be taken lightly legally. or shall we just execute everyone in the High Court who decided it's an act of terrorism.

Reply 27

Burton Bridge

Original post by Joleee

the majority of the UK does not support the death penalty tho, not according to the survey provided by op. they only support it in specific circumstances, namely terrorism.

I've only read your first paragraph and I burst out laughing, your saying the majority do support the death penalty because the only time the death penalty is ever handed out is in specific circumstances :biggrin:

Reply 28

Rakas21

Original post by Joleee

to regurgitate, no the average citizen does not support the death penalty unless it's an act of terrorism. the average citizen also does not understand the criminal justice system nor the costs involved with it; so you're basically asking a bunch of ignorant people for their opinions based on what? their emotions :cry:

you want to leave the ECHR and get rid of laws that protect the right to life. you do realise that ending a person's life is the ultimate decision cuz you can't go backward - once you're dead - therefore it cannot be taken lightly legally. or shall we just execute everyone in the High Court who decided it's an act of terrorism.

Your own report (though Youguv actually do a continual bi-monthly survey on the issue) also shows support for the death penalty when children are murdered and when multiple people are murdered so 'unless' suddenly becomes quite a bit more broad (and rightfully so).

Reply 29

username5702009

17

Original post by Iasona

The UK actually was one of the main advocates of the ECHR. For some reason the UK government find it impossible to even deport terrorists or criminals. Denmark and Germany now even deport asylum seekers back to Syria if they dare commit a crime. High time they sort that out first.

Well put, this government talks about being tough on crime but does the reverse. Cuts the number of police, does not fund the justice system adequately, for example.

Reply 30

Rakas21

Original post by barnet1471

Well put, this government talks about being tough on crime but does the reverse. Cuts the number of police, does not fund the justice system adequately, for example.

Despite my support for austerity in general I actually agree. The Home Office should have been better protected, perhaps by moving the intelligence services to the remit of the defense department (frees about 3bn per year for the Home Office to invest in more police).

While I don't trust Labour on their resolve to actually make the police prosecute crime (they oversaw some truly horrendous judicial decisions) one of things Blair did right was create the PSCO's which gave a police presence.

Reply 31

Original post by Joleee

to regurgitate, no the average citizen does not support the death penalty unless it's an act of terrorism.

The average citizen also does not understand the criminal justice system nor the costs involved with it; so you're basically asking a bunch of ignorant people for their opinions based on what? their emotions :cry:

you want to leave the ECHR and get rid of laws that protect the right to life. you do realise that ending a person's life is the ultimate decision cuz you can't go backward - once you're dead - therefore it cannot be taken lightly legally. or shall we just execute everyone in the High Court who decided it's an act of terrorism.

Yes. This defacto means they support the death penalty then as it is currently illegal now.

Welcome to democracy lol. You could say the same the same about any policy area. I too think giving millions of dumb people the vote is a poor way to run the country but that is considered by many to be a niche, far right view.

Yes. I think in some ways it's a more humane option than letting them rot in prison. If I was doing a stint for life I'd rather they just kill me even if I was innocent.

Reply 32

imlikeahermit

Fully in favour of this, and if I remember correctly most polls that have been done about this issue show the U.K. public is mostly in favour of this also. It should be brought in for the most serious crimes, not only exclusive to murder.

Reply 33

Spelunker

personally i dont get the pro's of bringing back the death penalty. i guess it would reduce the amount of people in prison so less taxes there. i just cant get past the idea of 'murdering a murderer' if that makes sense.

Reply 34

Original post by Spelunker

personally i dont get the pro's of bringing back the death penalty. i guess it would reduce the amount of people in prison so less taxes there. i just cant get past the idea of 'murdering a murderer' if that makes sense.

It's not murder if it's the law. Just like tax isn't theft.

Reply 35

username5604436

OP

Original post by imlikeahermit

Fully in favour of this, and if I remember correctly most polls that have been done about this issue show the U.K. public is mostly in favour of this also. It should be brought in for the most serious crimes, not only exclusive to murder.

Yep they do, more so even than in Russia and the post communist countries oddly. Maybe it has something to do with the lax treatment of criminals in the UK.

Reply 36

SHallowvale

Miscarriages of justice are pretty much the biggest reason why bringing back the death penalty would be a terrible idea.

Reply 37

imlikeahermit

Original post by Iasona

Yep they do, more so even than in Russia and the post communist countries oddly. Maybe it has something to do with the lax treatment of criminals in the UK.

It could be that, it’s one of the reasons I’m so for it. Because it’s not longer before murder is just a slap on the wrist in this country the way our judiciary hand out sentences.

Reply 38

-Imperator-

Original post by Joleee

which just goes to show how ignorant the average person is regarding crime and punishment. people also tend to typically think the death penalty is cheaper than a lifetime in prison, when in reality it isn't :nah:

. it costs somewhere between 48-70 percent more.

Whenever people say that capital punishment is expensive, they're always talking about capital punishment in the US. I can't find out how much it used to cost here in the UK before we abolished it.

Reply 39