The scam of learning to drive..
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this why we have driving tests. if we all decided we were good enough to hit the roads it would be chaos
Original post by muj121
I passed despite getting 2 majors. Examiner let me off. U mad?
How did you manage that?
Original post by TammieBean
This is a topic which really infuriates me. I have been learning to drive for almost a year and have been shelling out hundreds of pounds to do so. Without trying to sing my own praises, I am perfectly capable driver and could happily and SAFELY be out on the roads by myself, in fact I am probably better than a number of drivers out there. However, I can't do so until I get a stupid piece of paper saying I legally can.
Last month I shelled out £90 to take a test which I ended up failing on something which I didn't think was even something you could fail for and was something that I couldn't do anything about. A similar case has recently occurred with one of my friends. I also know of another person that has failed his test so many times now he has given up with driving.
It seems to me that the DVLA are failing people who deserve to pass and are capable on the road whilst dangerous drivers are allowed free reign of it. They are looking for this 100% perfect driver who makes no mistakes, when in reality none of us are like that. Hence they fail us so we then have to retake resulting in having to pay more for lessons and to take another test. The driving instructors are the ones then gaining and laughing in this system.
I just feel that this system in unfair and wrong. Anyone else agree with me?
Last month I shelled out £90 to take a test which I ended up failing on something which I didn't think was even something you could fail for and was something that I couldn't do anything about. A similar case has recently occurred with one of my friends. I also know of another person that has failed his test so many times now he has given up with driving.
It seems to me that the DVLA are failing people who deserve to pass and are capable on the road whilst dangerous drivers are allowed free reign of it. They are looking for this 100% perfect driver who makes no mistakes, when in reality none of us are like that. Hence they fail us so we then have to retake resulting in having to pay more for lessons and to take another test. The driving instructors are the ones then gaining and laughing in this system.
I just feel that this system in unfair and wrong. Anyone else agree with me?
I do agree with you in the sense that nobody drives like that when they have passed, but the safety checks and mirror checks every 5 seconds if done will actually prevent accidents from happening as stupid as they may seem. I've got my test on Tuesday and confident that I'll pass because I'm gonna make sure to be extra cautious and look in my mirrors all the time etc. You just gotta do the bull**** in the test and then you can do what you want. Think of it like that
I feel you buddy. I failed because the examinator was talking to his phone and got scared when I approached a parked car so that I don't hit the ones coming from the other direction - the street was very narrow and parking was banned there but whatever. He made a big fit - though when he noticed that, we were already passed it.
Original post by tinkerbell_xxx
It does feel like a scam with the amount we are paying to learn! It's really frustrating when you fail because of other road users or the examiner misjudging your intentions but there is nothing we can do 
They are the experienced driver compared to us so what they say goes.
I think the whole driving test is silly anyway. A 40 minute drive doesn't accurately represent your driving ability. Some people who are worse drivers can get lucky and have a good drive on the day. Others who are usually safe in lessons can mess up due to nerves/stuff that happens during the drive and fail. I just find it unfair.
They are the experienced driver compared to us so what they say goes.I think the whole driving test is silly anyway. A 40 minute drive doesn't accurately represent your driving ability. Some people who are worse drivers can get lucky and have a good drive on the day. Others who are usually safe in lessons can mess up due to nerves/stuff that happens during the drive and fail. I just find it unfair.
Propose an alternative solution.
Original post by muj121
I passed despite getting 2 majors. Examiner let me off. U mad?
Like i said it depends on examiner, and you struck gold.
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Original post by james22
Propose an alternative solution.
Your examiner judging your driving over a period of time. At least they can consistently judge your driving rather than 40 mins of one day. But then the downside to that would be people trying to bribe instructors. It is a difficult situation to try and come up with a fair test and I guess that a test with an examiner was the best idea at the time.
Original post by tinkerbell_xxx
Your examiner judging your driving over a period of time. At least they can consistently judge your driving rather than 40 mins of one day. But then the downside to that would be people trying to bribe instructors. It is a difficult situation to try and come up with a fair test and I guess that a test with an examiner was the best idea at the time.
Very expensive to have an examiner for multiple different times.
Original post by tinkerbell_xxx
How did you manage that?
Examiner said that my overall driving was good. I thought I definitely failed but was surprised when she gave me a pass.
Original post by TammieBean
This is a topic which really infuriates me. I have been learning to drive for almost a year and have been shelling out hundreds of pounds to do so. Without trying to sing my own praises, I am perfectly capable driver and could happily and SAFELY be out on the roads by myself, in fact I am probably better than a number of drivers out there. However, I can't do so until I get a stupid piece of paper saying I legally can.
Last month I shelled out £90 to take a test which I ended up failing on something which I didn't think was even something you could fail for and was something that I couldn't do anything about. A similar case has recently occurred with one of my friends. I also know of another person that has failed his test so many times now he has given up with driving.
It seems to me that the DVLA are failing people who deserve to pass and are capable on the road whilst dangerous drivers are allowed free reign of it. They are looking for this 100% perfect driver who makes no mistakes, when in reality none of us are like that. Hence they fail us so we then have to retake resulting in having to pay more for lessons and to take another test. The driving instructors are the ones then gaining and laughing in this system.
I just feel that this system in unfair and wrong. Anyone else agree with me?
Last month I shelled out £90 to take a test which I ended up failing on something which I didn't think was even something you could fail for and was something that I couldn't do anything about. A similar case has recently occurred with one of my friends. I also know of another person that has failed his test so many times now he has given up with driving.
It seems to me that the DVLA are failing people who deserve to pass and are capable on the road whilst dangerous drivers are allowed free reign of it. They are looking for this 100% perfect driver who makes no mistakes, when in reality none of us are like that. Hence they fail us so we then have to retake resulting in having to pay more for lessons and to take another test. The driving instructors are the ones then gaining and laughing in this system.
I just feel that this system in unfair and wrong. Anyone else agree with me?
So to summarise what you said cos it's a long post:
1) Learning to drive is too expensive.
2) You are a good driver.
3) the DVLA and/ or driving instructors have an interest in people failing the test.
Ok here are my responses:
1) Yes it is. Actually driving itself is very expensive so proportionally it does not cost that much. If you can afford to drive, you can afford to pay for lessons. Also, lessons of any kind are expensive think music lessons, tutoring etc.
2) You may well be but why would anyone else say you are? That's the way it works. Someone can't just claim they have skills without having demonstrated them. All drivers must have shown a minimum amount of skill to be able to be on the road and I'm afraid you haven't yet.
3) It may seem that way but think about it. Which driving instructor will have better business: the one who claims he has a 100% record of passing or the one who can't? Most people pick a driving instructor based on recommendation so the way their business model works, they want everyone to pass first time. The DVLA has no interest one way or the other, they do not receive funds every time they pass someone or if they fail. Actually they want to pass people so there are more drivers so they actually matter as an institution.
Original post by SirMasterKey
What exactly made you fail? 
This.
Original post by mackemforever
Do you really think that if they had a quota for the number of people they have to fail that it would have remained secret for so long? Do you honestly believe that in the entire duration that the driving test has been around that there wouldn't have been a single examiner who would go and reveal the story to the press? After all, something like that you'd get a nice little payday if you shipped it around to every tabloid.
The reason why no examiner has ever gone to the press with the story is because there is no story. They don't have a restriction on how many people they can pass. They never have, they never will, and anybody who uses that as a reason for why they failed is doing nothing more than looking for an excuse to make themselves feel like less of a failure.
The reason why no examiner has ever gone to the press with the story is because there is no story. They don't have a restriction on how many people they can pass. They never have, they never will, and anybody who uses that as a reason for why they failed is doing nothing more than looking for an excuse to make themselves feel like less of a failure.
I don't believe that, I was just saying that's what I heard.
But I still think my sister was failed for bs reasons
The amount of learners on here that have a "I did this and failed, but my friend did it too and passed" or "My ------ did that and failed for it" blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is, the examiner is far more experience than you. If you fail, you deserved to fail. No amount of "Oh but I'm a great driver, the EXAMINER was wrong." If they have cause to believe that you put the vehicle or anybody else's vehicle in a dangerous situation, you fail. Simple as. Don't get all high and mighty because you've had 20 driving lessons.
I agree and disagree with a number of these comments. Firstly I was not trying to make out that I was an amazing driver, I merely stated that compared to some of the generally dangerous drivers who don't concentrate and cause accidents I am probably safer to be on the road than they are.
40minutes is not enough to determine whether you are a good driver or not - its all about luck on the day about the road conditions and how busy it is e.t.c
I failed my test because I took too long at a roundabout, which I felt was unfair because the driver next to me wasn't going either and there was a shortage of SAFE gaps. My friend then failed last week because he got 'too close' to a wall when he had no other choice as a lorry was coming towards him on a narrow road.
40minutes is not enough to determine whether you are a good driver or not - its all about luck on the day about the road conditions and how busy it is e.t.c
I failed my test because I took too long at a roundabout, which I felt was unfair because the driver next to me wasn't going either and there was a shortage of SAFE gaps. My friend then failed last week because he got 'too close' to a wall when he had no other choice as a lorry was coming towards him on a narrow road.
Original post by TammieBean
I agree and disagree with a number of these comments. Firstly I was not trying to make out that I was an amazing driver, I merely stated that compared to some of the generally dangerous drivers who don't concentrate and cause accidents I am probably safer to be on the road than they are.
40minutes is not enough to determine whether you are a good driver or not - its all about luck on the day about the road conditions and how busy it is e.t.c
I failed my test because I took too long at a roundabout, which I felt was unfair because the driver next to me wasn't going either and there was a shortage of SAFE gaps. My friend then failed last week because he got 'too close' to a wall when he had no other choice as a lorry was coming towards him on a narrow road.
40minutes is not enough to determine whether you are a good driver or not - its all about luck on the day about the road conditions and how busy it is e.t.c
I failed my test because I took too long at a roundabout, which I felt was unfair because the driver next to me wasn't going either and there was a shortage of SAFE gaps. My friend then failed last week because he got 'too close' to a wall when he had no other choice as a lorry was coming towards him on a narrow road.
You're talking nonsense.
If you can't behave for 40 minutes you most certainly are NOT good enough to be let loose on your own.
It certainly isn't about "luck" either. You don't just magically arrive at a destination through the will of the gods. You get there through correct decisions and the ability to weigh up risk.
Original post by JC.
You're talking nonsense.
If you can't behave for 40 minutes you most certainly are NOT good enough to be let loose on your own.
It certainly isn't about "luck" either. You don't just magically arrive at a destination through the will of the gods. You get there through correct decisions and the ability to weigh up risk.
If you can't behave for 40 minutes you most certainly are NOT good enough to be let loose on your own.
It certainly isn't about "luck" either. You don't just magically arrive at a destination through the will of the gods. You get there through correct decisions and the ability to weigh up risk.
Seems like 90% of learners here think they're better than the examiner and all other road users though. "But I swear, I only hit 1 cyclist. My friend did it and got a minor."
Original post by ToastyCoke
Seems like 90% of learners here think they're better than the examiner and all other road users though. "But I swear, I only hit 1 cyclist. My friend did it and got a minor."
Agreed. I've posted this elsewhere on here, but it's worth repeating... IMHO you should never get into a car with someone who claims to be a "good driver".
I've been driving 10 years, never had any kind of accident, driven cars on a daily basis that are, generally, a hell of a lot more powerful than most people will ever own and raced cars in anger making 600+bhp
With all that being said, I'd never think of describing my own skills as anything other than "competent" at best.
Anyone who claims to be a good driver (with the exception of those who have earned the right to do so) invariably are not.
Original post by ToastyCoke
Seems like 90% of learners here think they're better than the examiner and all other road users though. "But I swear, I only hit 1 cyclist. My friend did it and got a minor."
Well that can also go for the road users already out there. They think they're better drivers than learners and other road users. Yes they have more experience, but they are also more likely to have picked up bad habits. Whereas learner drivers generally are very observant and aware of what is happening around them. Not all road users are bad drivers, granted. Most of them are probably fine, I was just trying to state that failing a test on something minute doesn't mean we will be unsafe on the roads. Not compared to some other drivers out there.
This thread was more about making it easier for learners to pass and get out on the road, when they perfectly capable of doing so. NOT to be an argument about who is a better driver, making out that learners thin they are amazing e.t.c
Original post by TammieBean
Well that can also go for the road users already out there. They think they're better drivers than learners and other road users. Yes they have more experience, but they are also more likely to have picked up bad habits. Whereas learner drivers generally are very observant and aware of what is happening around them. Not all road users are bad drivers, granted. Most of them are probably fine, I was just trying to state that failing a test on something minute doesn't mean we will be unsafe on the roads. Not compared to some other drivers out there.
This thread was more about making it easier for learners to pass and get out on the road, when they perfectly capable of doing so. NOT to be an argument about who is a better driver, making out that learners thin they are amazing e.t.c
This thread was more about making it easier for learners to pass and get out on the road, when they perfectly capable of doing so. NOT to be an argument about who is a better driver, making out that learners thin they are amazing e.t.c
Sorry, but if somebody has a full license, then they obviously are more capable than a learner.
Original post by TammieBean
This is a topic which really infuriates me. I have been learning to drive for almost a year and have been shelling out hundreds of pounds to do so. Without trying to sing my own praises, I am perfectly capable driver and could happily and SAFELY be out on the roads by myself, in fact I am probably better than a number of drivers out there. However, I can't do so until I get a stupid piece of paper saying I legally can.
Last month I shelled out £90 to take a test which I ended up failing on something which I didn't think was even something you could fail for and was something that I couldn't do anything about. A similar case has recently occurred with one of my friends. I also know of another person that has failed his test so many times now he has given up with driving.
It seems to me that the DVLA are failing people who deserve to pass and are capable on the road whilst dangerous drivers are allowed free reign of it. They are looking for this 100% perfect driver who makes no mistakes, when in reality none of us are like that. Hence they fail us so we then have to retake resulting in having to pay more for lessons and to take another test. The driving instructors are the ones then gaining and laughing in this system.
I just feel that this system in unfair and wrong. Anyone else agree with me?
Last month I shelled out £90 to take a test which I ended up failing on something which I didn't think was even something you could fail for and was something that I couldn't do anything about. A similar case has recently occurred with one of my friends. I also know of another person that has failed his test so many times now he has given up with driving.
It seems to me that the DVLA are failing people who deserve to pass and are capable on the road whilst dangerous drivers are allowed free reign of it. They are looking for this 100% perfect driver who makes no mistakes, when in reality none of us are like that. Hence they fail us so we then have to retake resulting in having to pay more for lessons and to take another test. The driving instructors are the ones then gaining and laughing in this system.
I just feel that this system in unfair and wrong. Anyone else agree with me?
I think you and the other contributors to this thread raise some interesting questions.
The test is imperfect and only measures the ability of the driver for a short 40 minute spell on one day. It cost you £90 - which is low compared to some. If we actually made it longer or perhaps split it into 2 tests (a skills test followed by a comprehensive road test) it would cost more. A lot of people complain about the cost now. Can you imagine the uproar if it cost twice or three times as much?
Perhaps it should not be one test for a lifetime. Drivers' skills degrade over time, they pick up bad habits, more complicated road junctions are introduced, technology moves on. Should it be a legal requirement to be re-tested? Probably. Would the authorities do it? No, because it would be almost universally unpopular. Would you, or anyone else on here, be willing to be retested in 10 years time and every 10 years after that?
I never laugh when one of my pupil's fail. I feel their pain and disappointment and add it to my own. Most of the time it ruins my day. I want them to pass first-time. I also don't gain. Whilst there may be some short-term pecuniary advantage, it does nothing for my reputation and delays me bringing in someone from my waiting list to have lessons. Tests are also extremely disruptive to my diary and the working day and I lose money as a result. Furthermore, why do you think it is that driving instructors sometimes delay pupil's tests? It is not because we want more money (although I accept that that might happen), it is because we don't believe that your driving is quite there yet and a little more training, practice and experience will bring you up to the required level. And yet some pupils plead, cajole and bribe us to let them go for test before they are truly ready. Believe me, it is hard to turn such a request down because we want the same as you!
Examiners are not looking for the perfect drive. Neither do we. Everybody makes mistakes and examiners know that. It is not making the mistake that matters - it's how you deal with it. For example, a pupil of mine pulled out on a roundabout at the wrong moment. She realised and accelerated to get out of the way (not the recommended solution). The examiner complimented her on her actions because she made a mistake and attempted to rectify it. Unfortunately she straightlined the roundabout as a result, cutting up the guy she had pulled out in front of. Had she not done that, she would have passed. It was a silly mistake, compounded into a serious one.
You haven't told us why you failed. There are generally very few situations that you genuinely could not do anything about. Whilst it could be a no-win situation it may be that you should have anticipated so that it did not occur. We all have to drive to take account of the unexpected or problems caused by other drivers - it's part of driving life.
You mention in one of your other posts about your friend who failed going too close to a wall. Whilst on the face of it it seems harsh there are things that we don't know. How fast was your friend going? Could the situation have been avoided before getting close to the wall? Was the deviation done slowly, with care or as a reaction to the lorry which should have been seen or anticipated. At the end of a test I always ask to be present at the debrief so that I hear the circumstances that led to the fault and not the fault itself. The pupil will hear the fault - I need to know why and where it happened. Unfortunately most failed candidates cannot describe the circumstances accurately mostly due to the intense disappointment of the fail. This is not their fault, just a purely human reaction.
I hope this long post ameliorates for your disappointment to a degree and that you will be successful next time.
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