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    (Original post by ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈)
    And just to add, live right now, a Russian military aircraft is enroute to Simferopol.

    http://www.flightradar24.com/SUM9704/3d6ffa8
    Seems to belong to the Russian Ministry for Emergency Situations.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    The Ukrainian government has complete air superiority, they have no reason whatsoever to be shooting down aircraft as the separatists don't have any. The separatists on the other hand have been actively shooting down aircraft in Eastern Ukraine, their motive is clear, they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane.
    Not that I necessarily believe it to be true, but the Ukrainian "government" could have done it for malicious reasons and with intent, i.e. shoot it down because it just happened to be a passing plane, the have no clear motive so it must have been the separatists. I'm more willing to buy into the "accidents happen in war" argument.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Yep.... it's suggested the Pro-Russian separatists may have shot it down....

    They'll instantly loose all support in russia if that's actually the case.
    Lose*

    And no.
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    Jesus killing people in plane crashes again !

    Obama asks people to pray to him !!!!!
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Not that I necessarily believe it to be true, but the Ukrainian "government" could have done it for malicious reasons and with intent, i.e. shoot it down because it just happened to be a passing plane, the have no clear motive so it must have been the separatists. I'm more willing to buy into the "accidents happen in war" argument.
    Wildly speculating on incredibly unlikely events is not good journalism, I can't see any reason for suggesting that it is.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    Definitely never using Malaysian Airlines.

    Why were they flying over what is basically a war-zone anyway?
    4 other flights were passing Ukraine airspace at the time.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Seems to belong to the Russian Ministry for Emergency Situations.
    It has been reported that the crash is in Pro-Russian forces hands and that, while they have recovered the flight data recorder, they will only hand it over to the Russians, so they'll be on their way to colelct them.

    Of course, that could be just what they want us to think...

    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    The Ukrainian Government has complete air superiority, they have no reason whatsoever to be shooting down aircraft as the separatists don't have any. The separatists on the other hand have been actively shooting down aircraft in Eastern Ukraine, their motive is clear, they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane.
    There is also reported speculation that it was mistaken for a Russian Governmental airliner - Putin's equivalent of Air Force 1 has quite similar proportions and very similar paintwork.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    So no one is at fault then?

    Clearly those who shot it down were negligent either way.

    I guess you're right, the airline can't be blamed, but after the missing plane incident it doesn't look good for them.
    I'm assuming you're talking about MH370 ... but these are two very different scenarios that are totally independent on one another: one plane was lost at sea, the other was shot down by someone.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Not that I necessarily believe it to be true, but the Ukrainian "government" could have done it for malicious reasons and with intent, i.e. shoot it down because it just happened to be a passing plane, the have no clear motive so it must have been the separatists. I'm more willing to buy into the "accidents happen in war" argument.

    If I wanted to read things like these I'd go on the Daily Mail.

    No, it's probably not a false flag attack.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It has been reported that the crash is in Pro-Russian forces hands and that, while they have recovered the flight data recorder, they will only hand it over to the Russians, so they'll be on their way to colelct them.

    Of course, that could be just what they want us to think...



    There is also reported speculation that it was mistaken for a Russian Governmental airliner - Putin's equivalent of Air Force 1 has quite similar proportions and very similar paintwork.
    At +33 000 ft it's a bit harder to distinguish colour, isn't it.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Wildly speculating on incredibly unlikely events is not good journalism, I can't see any reason for suggesting that it is.
    It could also plausibly happen if one were to consider the belief that it was an unauthorised Russian aircraft.


    (Original post by Drewski)
    It has been reported that the crash is in Pro-Russian forces hands and that, while they have recovered the flight data recorder, they will only hand it over to the Russians, so they'll be on their way to colelct them.

    Of course, that could be just what they want us to think...



    There is also reported speculation that it was mistaken for a Russian Governmental airliner - Putin's equivalent of Air Force 1 has quite similar proportions and very similar paintwork.
    I could see the FDR being a negotiating tool, however it would also be slightly suicidal of them to hold on to it to negotiate with. As for the second point, I can't think of anything more stupid for the Ukrainian "government" to do. Even if it were unauthorised one could claim it was an assassination attempt against Putin, and given that it would likely have countermeasures it would likely survive the trip to Russian airspace.
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    (Original post by ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈)
    If I wanted to read things like these I'd go on the Daily Mail.

    No, it's probably not a false flag attack.
    As I said, possible, but improbable. And they would have to be certain it couldn't be traced back to them
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    (Original post by rockrunride)
    Civilians. Why is it ever okay? Not just on MH17, but in the Middle East, Iran 655, Pan Am 103, Korean 7, 9/11, 7/7, everywhere. Sickening.

    I'd like to see something more than Sanctions from the US.
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    (Original post by Drewski)



    There is also reported speculation that it was mistaken for a Russian Governmental airliner - Putin's equivalent of Air Force 1 has quite similar proportions and very similar paintwork.
    That would be even worse for the Ukrainians than shooting down a passenger plane. It would result in a nothing less than a full scale invasion. Would Putin not have an escort of fighter jets when he travels as well?
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    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    I'm assuming you're talking about MH370 ... but these are two very different scenarios that are totally independent on one another: one plane was lost at sea, the other was shot down by someone.
    Doesn't really matter. You'll still see a lot of people avoiding them from now on
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    It's going to be a game changer over there if it was shot down.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If it's proven that Russia did it, as seems likely, then the consequences will be dramatic. Apart from any other consideration, if there were Chinese citizens on the plane, I wonder what China's reaction will be?
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    (Original post by Monsieur Gamma)
    At +33 000 ft it's a bit harder to distinguish colour, isn't it.
    To distinguish them perfectly and get a positive ID, definitely hard. To get a hazy, poorly defined image in a pair of binoculars?...

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I could see the FDR being a negotiating tool, however it would also be slightly suicidal of them to hold on to it to negotiate with. As for the second point, I can't think of anything more stupid for the Ukrainian "government" to do. Even if it were unauthorised one could claim it was an assassination attempt against Putin, and given that it would likely have countermeasures it would likely survive the trip to Russian airspace.
    I don't see it as being particularly a negotiation tool, simply a case of "we don't deal with your side, we don't trust you, we only deal with 'our' side".

    And no, quite agree that that's an unlikely situation to say the least.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    That would be even worse for the Ukrainians than shooting down a passenger plane. It would result in a nothing less than a full scale invasion. Would Putin not have an escort of fighter jets when he travels as well?
    It seems unlikely that Ukraine did this. I think the finger will point irresistably at the Russians or their proxies. RT are already in full denial mode, a sure sign of guilt.
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    World war 3 before 2020, you seen it here first.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    That would be even worse for the Ukrainians than shooting down a passenger plane. It would result in a nothing less than a full scale invasion. Would Putin not have an escort of fighter jets when he travels as well?
    Well, 2 points on that;

    1- not ordinarily, no, Obama doesn't, Merkel doesn't, Cameron doesn't. It's actually pretty rare - aside from photo ops - for those aircraft to be escorted along the route.
    2- there is, however, a couple of (uncomfirmed) reports suggesting that there were fighter aircraft around the airliner up until 3 minutes before it fell off radar.

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    If it's proven that Russia did it, as seems likely, then the consequences will be dramatic. Apart from any other consideration, if there were Chinese citizens on the plane, I wonder what China's reaction will be?
    There is a difference, though, between Russia the state and pro-Russian rebel forces.
 
 
 
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