Can I ask for more money?
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Original post by TenOfThem
Looking at 2 sets of parents
- one who have an annual income of £25k
- one who have an income of £50k
The first has no real disposable income to take responsibility for
The second does have
The second has made choices about how they are spending their money
I am not criticising their choices, I am not saying that money has been squandered, I am simply saying that they have made choices and they are responsible for them
- one who have an annual income of £25k
- one who have an income of £50k
The first has no real disposable income to take responsibility for
The second does have
The second has made choices about how they are spending their money
I am not criticising their choices, I am not saying that money has been squandered, I am simply saying that they have made choices and they are responsible for them
Yes, the parents are responsible for their choices and the student should not suffer as a result.
Why should someone not be able to go to university as they are held responsible for their parents spending habits? And what is to say those on 25K could not do more to earn more, and are only earning that much because they are potentially lazy (not always the case, but higher earners often work harder).
Original post by Chickendroid
Because of my parents income, I effectively get £17 a week after accommodation costs. My parents have mortgages and loans of their own so I don't expect them to pay my way through university - can I ask sfe for more money? As I can't live on such a tiny sum.
(PS the way sfe allocates finance based on household income is a joke)
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(PS the way sfe allocates finance based on household income is a joke)
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Think that's bad? I'll have £2 a week if I was just relying on SFE loan :P
Original post by northbrad30
So then responsibility lies on a parent whatever there income.
Your saying a person who's family has a low income DESERVES to go to university, but a person who's family has a modest income but cannot give to them for whatever reason then they don't deserve to go to university?
A wannabe student should not suffer because of their parents spending habits, the same way a wannabe student should not suffer because of their parents low income.
Your saying a person who's family has a low income DESERVES to go to university, but a person who's family has a modest income but cannot give to them for whatever reason then they don't deserve to go to university?
A wannabe student should not suffer because of their parents spending habits, the same way a wannabe student should not suffer because of their parents low income.
No one deserves to go to university, everyone deserves to have an equal chance at university regardless of their education. The govt help the poor because no one else can but if the ones who can afford it merely don't want to pay up then tough. If your parents never gave you any lunch money even though they could afford it the government isn't going to give you lunch money. Same principle. Stop using government loans for the poor as the crux of your argument. They are just there to aid social mobility nothing more. If there was a scheme to help underrepresented women into a certain area of work then that doesn't mean that they are entitled to the job, it's just a helping hand to make things equal.
Think about what university is for a moment. University is optional higher education, a degree won't make or break your life unlike school education which is why school is compulsory and university is not. Parents have full control over their children until they are 18 that's the law, and they can choose whether they want to send them to university, public school, to study in another country, whatever. It may so happen that you parents have decided that they don't want to pay for you to go to university. you're a child, you listen to them. When you become an adult, get a job, move out, start supporting yourself and then you can afford to go to university. Nowhere does it say that you must go to university as soon as you finish school. This is what I mean about the entitled middle class. They feel that they are absolutely entitled to their coming-of age new university life at age 18 no matter who has to pay and that they are somehow being cheated if they can't get the money to go and have to wait till a later date.
Original post by northbrad30
Yes, the parents are responsible for their choices and the student should not suffer as a result.
Why should someone not be able to go to university as they are held responsible for their parents spending habits? And what is to say those on 25K could not do more to earn more, and are only earning that much because they are potentially lazy (not always the case, but higher earners often work harder).
Why should someone not be able to go to university as they are held responsible for their parents spending habits? And what is to say those on 25K could not do more to earn more, and are only earning that much because they are potentially lazy (not always the case, but higher earners often work harder).
I do not agree (even as a high earner) that high earners generally work harder tbh
The reality is that parents know that university costs ... if they have the income but choose not to make arrangements for university then surely they are responsible for their children being under-funded
Do not get me wrong ... we do not have the money for university squirrelled away but we have made decisions about our spending habits over the last few years so that we can fund university
Original post by TenOfThem
Looking at 2 sets of parents
- one who have an annual income of £25k
- one who have an income of £50k
The first has no real disposable income to take responsibility for
The second does have
The second has made choices about how they are spending their money
I am not criticising their choices, I am not saying that money has been squandered, I am simply saying that they have made choices and they are responsible for them
- one who have an annual income of £25k
- one who have an income of £50k
The first has no real disposable income to take responsibility for
The second does have
The second has made choices about how they are spending their money
I am not criticising their choices, I am not saying that money has been squandered, I am simply saying that they have made choices and they are responsible for them
You could also argue that choices those parents made throughout their lives led to those annual incomes. No criticism of the choices, but if their actions resulted in limited career/income growth, then that's a consequence they should be responsible for.
Also, with the system of paying loans back after graduation, what the parents earn should be irrelevant. Its not fair that some people get handed free money just because they started from a less affluent background.
Original post by SR255
No one deserves to go to university, everyone deserves to have an equal chance at university regardless of their education. The govt help the poor because no one else can but if the ones who can afford it merely don't want to pay up then tough. If your parents never gave you any lunch money even though they could afford it the government isn't going to give you lunch money. Same principle. Stop using government loans for the poor as the crux of your argument. They are just there to aid social mobility nothing more. If there was a scheme to help underrepresented women into a certain area of work then that doesn't mean that they are entitled to the job, it's just a helping hand to make things equal.
Think about what university is for a moment. University is optional higher education, a degree won't make or break your life unlike school education which is why school is compulsory and university is not. Parents have full control over their children until they are 18 that's the law, and they can choose whether they want to send them to university, public school, to study in another country, whatever. It may so happen that you parents have decided that they don't want to pay for you to go to university. you're a child, you listen to them. When you become an adult, get a job, move out, start supporting yourself and then you can afford to go to university. Nowhere does it say that you must go to university as soon as you finish school. This is what I mean about the entitled middle class. They feel that they are absolutely entitled to their coming-of age new university life at age 18 no matter who has to pay and that they are somehow being cheated if they can't get the money to go and have to wait till a later date.
Think about what university is for a moment. University is optional higher education, a degree won't make or break your life unlike school education which is why school is compulsory and university is not. Parents have full control over their children until they are 18 that's the law, and they can choose whether they want to send them to university, public school, to study in another country, whatever. It may so happen that you parents have decided that they don't want to pay for you to go to university. you're a child, you listen to them. When you become an adult, get a job, move out, start supporting yourself and then you can afford to go to university. Nowhere does it say that you must go to university as soon as you finish school. This is what I mean about the entitled middle class. They feel that they are absolutely entitled to their coming-of age new university life at age 18 no matter who has to pay and that they are somehow being cheated if they can't get the money to go and have to wait till a later date.
Well very few people go to university before they are 18, so going by that logic parental income should play any role as a person should just "get a job, move out, start supporting themselves and then they can afford to go to university".
Original post by fiona344
You could also argue that choices those parents made throughout their lives led to those annual incomes. No criticism of the choices, but if their actions resulted in limited career/income growth, then that's a consequence they should be responsible for.
Sometimes, sure
Also, with the system of paying loans back after graduation, what the parents earn should be irrelevant. Its not fair that some people get handed free money just because they started from a less affluent background.
Not sure what you are saying here ... parental income is not relevant for repayments
I think if people were generally loaned more then re-payments would have to be far higher
Original post by TenOfThem
I do not agree (even as a high earner) that high earners generally work harder tbh
The reality is that parents know that university costs ... if they have the income but choose not to make arrangements for university then surely they are responsible for their children being under-funded
Do not get me wrong ... we do not have the money for university squirrelled away but we have made decisions about our spending habits over the last few years so that we can fund university
The reality is that parents know that university costs ... if they have the income but choose not to make arrangements for university then surely they are responsible for their children being under-funded
Do not get me wrong ... we do not have the money for university squirrelled away but we have made decisions about our spending habits over the last few years so that we can fund university
Like said we can establish the parents are at fault if they cannot fund their child to go to university, but it is the child who suffers through their parents actions despite playing no part in them.
And if high earners do not work harder (not necessarily now, but to get to the position they may be in) then it is like saying working hard is pointless. Like said a student should not have to forfeit going to university because of their parents low income, and they do not have to. So then why should a person potentially have to forfeit going to university due to their parents spending habits or debt, despite being in no way responsible.
Original post by northbrad30
Like said we can establish the parents are at fault if they cannot fund their child to go to university, but it is the child who suffers through their parents actions despite playing no part in them.
And if high earners do not work harder (not necessarily now, but to get to the position they may be in) then it is like saying working hard is pointless. Like said a student should not have to forfeit going to university because of their parents low income, and they do not have to. So then why should a person potentially have to forfeit going to university due to their parents spending habits or debt, despite being in no way responsible.
And if high earners do not work harder (not necessarily now, but to get to the position they may be in) then it is like saying working hard is pointless. Like said a student should not have to forfeit going to university because of their parents low income, and they do not have to. So then why should a person potentially have to forfeit going to university due to their parents spending habits or debt, despite being in no way responsible.
All students get their tuition paid
The maintenance loan should, imo, cover the average cost of first year accommodation but after that there is no actual bar to university
However
At all the universities my child applied to - she could have almost afforded catered accom ... the difference in cost would have been less than she costs us at the moment so there would be no reason why she could not go
Who is barred from university given this
Original post by TenOfThem
All students get their tuition paid
The maintenance loan should, imo, cover the average cost of first year accommodation but after that there is no actual bar to university
However
At all the universities my child applied to - she could have almost afforded catered accom ... the difference in cost would have been less than she costs us at the moment so there would be no reason why she could not go
Who is barred from university given this
The maintenance loan should, imo, cover the average cost of first year accommodation but after that there is no actual bar to university
However
At all the universities my child applied to - she could have almost afforded catered accom ... the difference in cost would have been less than she costs us at the moment so there would be no reason why she could not go
Who is barred from university given this
People are being barred because some peoples loans do not even cover the cheapest accommodation they can find, never mind having anything left over for food/books/travel etc. But there parents cannot/will not give them anything, through not fault of that students.
Then there is people getting a loan of about £7500 through SF, then often additional loans of about £2000-300 in bursary's from the university. These 'dis-advantaged' people often end up with £70-100 to spare after paying for their accommodation, whilst like said others cannot even afford their accommodation with the loan never mind live afterwards.
Original post by northbrad30
People are being barred because some peoples loans do not even cover the cheapest accommodation they can find, never mind having anything left over for food/books/travel etc. But there parents cannot/will not give them anything, through not fault of that students.
Overdraft?
Original post by OU Student
Overdraft?
You do realize an overdraft had to be paid back, and if you could not find the money at the time it is unlikely you are just going to magic it up in the near future.
Original post by northbrad30
Well very few people go to university before they are 18, so going by that logic parental income should play any role as a person should just "get a job, move out, start supporting themselves and then they can afford to go to university".
Child or not, if you live with your parents and are fed an clothed by them then their income is your income for the purposes of income calculations just like how a housewife would be assessed on her husband's income because she has none of her own. I don't know why I'm still arguing this. If daddy spent your university fund on a new Jaguar then the government is't obligated to pay for your university sonny.
Original post by northbrad30
People are being barred because some peoples loans do not even cover the cheapest accommodation they can find, never mind having anything left over for food/books/travel etc. But there parents cannot/will not give them anything, through not fault of that students.
Will not
No-one lives at home and costs nothing so all parents CAN give something
Then there is people getting a loan of about £7500 through SF, then often additional loans of about £2000-300 in bursary's from the university. These 'dis-advantaged' people often end up with £70-100 to spare after paying for their accommodation, whilst like said others cannot even afford their accommodation with the loan never mind live afterwards.
Now, there is something I agree with you on
People get the loan+grant = they have enough money
Bursaries could be made more widely available so that they can be directed towards people who do need additional funds
When I applied for student finance I basically got no grant, something stupid like £90. However I requested the maximum loan and got just over £5k. Me and a person who came from a poor background had the exact amount of money given, only difference is that I had to pay it back as it was mostly a loan and they didn't have to pay it back because it was mostly a grant. For this reason I have never really understood the debate about middle class being disadvantaged, has the system changed now at all or something?
Original post by Swanbow
When I applied for student finance I basically got no grant, something stupid like £90. However I requested the maximum loan and got just over £5k. Me and a person who came from a poor background had the exact amount of money given, only difference is that I had to pay it back as it was mostly a loan and they didn't have to pay it back because it was mostly a grant. For this reason I have never really understood the debate about middle class being disadvantaged, has the system changed now at all or something?
Because to have got a grant (however small) and a £5k loan your parents obviously don't earn enough to be in the maximum income bracket for student finance. If your parents earn over £60k you get around £3500 a year which doesn't cover accommodation at many unis.
Original post by jelly1000
Because to have got a grant (however small) and a £5k loan your parents obviously don't earn enough to be in the maximum income bracket for student finance. If your parents earn over £60k you get around £3500 a year which doesn't cover accommodation at many unis.
How come a person who's parents are earning £59k can get a maximum loan of around £5k but suddenly that drops amount drops £3.5k when you're parents are on £60k. If that is the really the way the system works then it is certainly messed up.
Jesus its the same issues all over again! Waaaa mummy and daddy wont give me hundreds a month to live off, I'm so hard done by! Get a job! Yes, thats right, a job. Make up that 60 quid difference between low income and middle income students by working a WHOLE ten hours a week. The government isnt there to give every student the money they want. They are kindly paying your tuition fees, up to 9k a year. Yeah, how selfish are they!
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Original post by Swanbow
How come a person who's parents are earning £59k can get a maximum loan of around £5k but suddenly that drops amount drops £3.5k when you're parents are on £60k. If that is the really the way the system works then it is certainly messed up.
You don't get £5k if your parents earn £59k. You get just under £4k.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by northbrad30
People are being barred because some peoples loans do not even cover the cheapest accommodation they can find, never mind having anything left over for food/books/travel etc. But there parents cannot/will not give them anything, through not fault of that students.
Then there is people getting a loan of about £7500 through SF, then often additional loans of about £2000-300 in bursary's from the university. These 'dis-advantaged' people often end up with £70-100 to spare after paying for their accommodation, whilst like said others cannot even afford their accommodation with the loan never mind live afterwards.
Then there is people getting a loan of about £7500 through SF, then often additional loans of about £2000-300 in bursary's from the university. These 'dis-advantaged' people often end up with £70-100 to spare after paying for their accommodation, whilst like said others cannot even afford their accommodation with the loan never mind live afterwards.
bursaries are grants that you don't pay back, not loans.
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