Opinions about Immigration into the UK?
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Original post by Monkey.Man
there are more ways to strengthen an economy than by overpopulating the country, aren't there? what if we lowered taxes? what if we made free trade agreements with other countries? what if we ended foreign import tariffs? we could turn this country into a land of concrete and get rid of our environment, sure, but why would you prefer the former?
Why do people assume we can't have our cake and eat it? We can do all of those things and still import labour, there's a massive expanse of nothingness between London and Nottingham and York and Edinburgh. No danger of becoming a land of concrete.
I don't agree with having to give preference to EU immigrants over those from non EU countries. We should be taking in the best for the jobs available, regardless of country of origin. My Mum is a teacher and has had to let go of a couple of excellent Canadian teachers now because keeping them on meant going through a lengthy process to demonstrate that she couldn't find suitable teachers from the EU.
I also think we need to address the issues facing our workforce, because we have at least some of the numbers who need jobs so employers shouldn't be saying they need workers and that Europeans are the only ones who'll do the work.
I also think we need to address the issues facing our workforce, because we have at least some of the numbers who need jobs so employers shouldn't be saying they need workers and that Europeans are the only ones who'll do the work.
Original post by jelly1000
I don't agree with having to give preference to EU immigrants over those from non EU countries. We should be taking in the best for the jobs available, regardless of country of origin. My Mum is a teacher and has had to let go of a couple of excellent Canadian teachers now because keeping them on meant going through a lengthy process to demonstrate that she couldn't find suitable teachers from the EU.
I also think we need to address the issues facing our workforce, because we have at least some of the numbers who need jobs so employers shouldn't be saying they need workers and that Europeans are the only ones who'll do the work.
I also think we need to address the issues facing our workforce, because we have at least some of the numbers who need jobs so employers shouldn't be saying they need workers and that Europeans are the only ones who'll do the work.
Yeah that's pretty strange to have to let go of skilled teachers and then have to replace them! Some of my friend schools are changing into new Academies which are managed by school organizations from america and other countries so itll be interesting to see how teachers get recruited by them. I agree though with giving EU immigrants equal chance for employment with british or those from other countries! I'm not against political correctness if it makes evrything fairer.
Original post by Carol R. Lawson
Yeah that's pretty strange to have to let go of skilled teachers and then have to replace them! Some of my friend schools are changing into new Academies which are managed by school organizations from america and other countries so itll be interesting to see how teachers get recruited by them. I agree though with giving EU immigrants equal chance for employment with british or those from other countries! I'm not against political correctness if it makes evrything fairer.
Their visas were about to run out and the only way to renew them was to prove there was no one from Britain or the EU who was better which was very lengthy (involved a board meeting which only happens once a month amongst other things)- this situation has been created due to unlimited EU immigration.
i didnt have much of a problem, its impossible to have a country with just one nationality, but this agreement with Romanians is just absurd. We might as well just give them our homes, salaries along with the jobs they are taking.
Original post by meenu89
Must be better controlled, including those coming from within the EU.
immigration cannot be "controlled".
That's just a mantra for politicians to say who do nothing.
The elephant in the room is that people like to live with people who have the same cultural habits. It may be nice to have an Iranian immigrant open up a nice restaurant but when 30% or even 80% of your neighbourhood comprises people who have no intention of conforming to the culture of the land then the result it misery.
It's not racist to demand that this happens, at all. Oriental Asian immigrants do this without ever thinking it strange so why should Muslims and other groups expect to live in the UK like they lived in Timbuktu?
So immigration can be good or can be bad, it depends what people do when they get here.
It's not racist to demand that this happens, at all. Oriental Asian immigrants do this without ever thinking it strange so why should Muslims and other groups expect to live in the UK like they lived in Timbuktu?
So immigration can be good or can be bad, it depends what people do when they get here.
Original post by meenu89
Must be better controlled, including those coming from within the EU.
Meh, people focus on EU immigration because they prefer to talk about white immigrants rather than be accused of racism.
People arent really worried about some guy from Romanian coming here to work on a building site for a few years whilst minding his own business. They're worried about people from completely alien cultures coming en masse and actively changing the country.
I know Polish guys who came to the UK since 2004 and they absolutely bend over backwards to make people want them to be here. They are genuinely embarrassed when the NHS sends out leaflets in Polish for example. Contrast that to Pakistanis who often despise the culture of this country and demand that people make concessions in their favour.
Indians and Orientals as well genuinely make an attempt to fit in and become as like the British as they can. This is why people rarely resent these groups whereas others are not welcome.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Mackay
It would be immoral to send them back - effectively it's a death sentence, isn't it?
Not really. The way i think about immigration is this:
there is an asteroid which is going to destroy the earth and kill everyone.
Scientists build a huge rocket that could house millions and could leave earth before the destruction. Who would go on this rocket? Obviously the scientists who built it, and then the leftover spaces will be filled with other people. But you aren't going to fill it with so many people that the rocket cannot properly take off (because otherwise everyone would die), so you would willingly leave some people behind.
In the same way, immigration in Britain should be such that the British people are allowed to stay (which we do) and then leftover spaces can be filled. But we wouldnt fill it with everyone who needs it for survival (because of the effect on the rest of us); people will die in their countries, but we will not suffer on account of them.
Its horrendous, instead of importing labour we need to focus on our native population. This level of immigration is unsustainable.
We can't build enough houses.
Too much competition for jobs.
Overcrowding (We'll have more people per sq km than any other EU nation by 2060)
Clashing of cultures
Natives becoming minority in many areas (London)
Increase in crime
We can't build enough houses.
Too much competition for jobs.
Overcrowding (We'll have more people per sq km than any other EU nation by 2060)
Clashing of cultures
Natives becoming minority in many areas (London)
Increase in crime
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by deehee
"Controlled immigration" is impossible and not the solution.
It can't be impossible since 70% of immigration is currently subject to a points system.
Your solution is needless.
Personally i'd scrap the points system and just require all new immigrants to pay £10k for a 3 year work visa giving them full access to benefits. If they had been in work or education at least 2 years they'd be granted permanent residency, if not they'd be deported.
Original post by Blake-inator
Not really. The way i think about immigration is this:
there is an asteroid which is going to destroy the earth and kill everyone.
Scientists build a huge rocket that could house millions and could leave earth before the destruction. Who would go on this rocket? Obviously the scientists who built it, and then the leftover spaces will be filled with other people. But you aren't going to fill it with so many people that the rocket cannot properly take off (because otherwise everyone would die), so you would willingly leave some people behind.
In the same way, immigration in Britain should be such that the British people are allowed to stay (which we do) and then leftover spaces can be filled. But we wouldnt fill it with everyone who needs it for survival (because of the effect on the rest of us); people will die in their countries, but we will not suffer on account of them.
there is an asteroid which is going to destroy the earth and kill everyone.
Scientists build a huge rocket that could house millions and could leave earth before the destruction. Who would go on this rocket? Obviously the scientists who built it, and then the leftover spaces will be filled with other people. But you aren't going to fill it with so many people that the rocket cannot properly take off (because otherwise everyone would die), so you would willingly leave some people behind.
In the same way, immigration in Britain should be such that the British people are allowed to stay (which we do) and then leftover spaces can be filled. But we wouldnt fill it with everyone who needs it for survival (because of the effect on the rest of us); people will die in their countries, but we will not suffer on account of them.
There's an obvious problem with this analogy - "the British people" are simply so through accident of birth, not because "they built it".
Original post by SilverAlex
Its horrendous, instead of importing labour we need to focus on our native population. This level of immigration is unsustainable.
We can't build enough houses.
Too much competition for jobs.
Overcrowding (We'll have more people per sq km than any other EU nation by 2060)
Clashing of cultures
Natives becoming minority in many areas (London)
Increase in crime
We can't build enough houses.
Too much competition for jobs.
Overcrowding (We'll have more people per sq km than any other EU nation by 2060)
Clashing of cultures
Natives becoming minority in many areas (London)
Increase in crime
-Housing shortages have been a problem for a lot longer than the last 10 years, they may have been highlighted by immigration but that doesn't make immigration the cause.
-The real question to ask is why are British people being pushed out of the job market so easily? I'd posit that if you are worse at doing your job than a guy with no qualifications who can't speak English you really shouldn't be doing that job anyway.
-2060 is a relatively long time away and that, I'm guessing assumes no changes in relative rates of migration; ie it's pretty much *******s. Anecdotally I see that outside London and certain parts of the South East population density isn't really that high at all.
-Britain remains overwhelmingly 'White British'.
-Crime has fallen and continues to fall steadily, there has been no increase in crime to go with the scare-mongering.
If we continue to blame the problems in our country (such as overpopulation, housing, infrastructure, the cost of living, education, welfare, etc, etc) the only thing we will achieve is to allow the people who caused these problems (politicians of all persuasions who have wilfully negelcted these things in order to win votes) to get away with their failures while we and our children suffer for them.
Don't let the political establishment serve you up the dross that immigration is to blame, it isn't, they are.
Original post by SilverAlex
Clashing of cultures
Natives becoming minority in many areas (London)
Natives becoming minority in many areas (London)
1. Examples?
2. Why is this a problem?
Original post by anarchism101
There's an obvious problem with this analogy - "the British people" are simply so through accident of birth, not because "they built it".
Are you suggesting that our ancestors did not build this nation?!
The problem thus far is that we have set the bar too low. Emigrating to a country should be a privilege, not a right, and we should be much more pickier in who we give visas to.
You should only receive a visa if you can add to the economy (via skilled labour in most circumstances) and integrate well within society by, for instance, speaking decent English and not having a history of religious extremism.
You should only receive a visa if you can add to the economy (via skilled labour in most circumstances) and integrate well within society by, for instance, speaking decent English and not having a history of religious extremism.
For some reason we seem to think that us Brits are superior to all of these developing countries- that other nationalities are parasites, just here to steal our welfare and jobs. This is not the case. British people emigrate almost as much as foreigners immigrate; immigration is hardly out of control. I long the day when people can choose to live and work freely anywhere in the world, regardless of false political boundaries - is that not what a true, loving and peaceful world would like? As long as we enforce this attitude of 'them' and 'us', we will never see long-term peace and prosperity - such attitudes only lead to cultural and racial tensions.
What does it mean to be British? To be white? To have an accent? To have parents born here? To have grandparents born here? The definition of British is very flimsy, since if you go far back enough you'll find that we're all decedents from immigration - immigrants have just as right to this land as we do. Likewise, we have the right to go to their countries. It is a mutual contract, which lots of us here seem to forget.
You could argue that they're less developed, so Brits don't want to go there. But, surely it is our duty to allow and facilitate the development of these countries? If they are poorer than us, we have a moral obligation to help them. We need to end this right-wing, brutal attitude of international 'survival of the fittest', and start to show genuine concern and compassion for our foreign leaders.
I don't just want the best for Britain. I want the best for Europe and the rest of the world too - they are just as entitled to have as good as lives as us. If they can't have that opportunity in their own countries, and want to come here - we should let them, or invest money in improving their own countries.
This post will appall a lot of you closet racists and xenophobes here, but really think about our moral and social obligations to the rest of the world.
What does it mean to be British? To be white? To have an accent? To have parents born here? To have grandparents born here? The definition of British is very flimsy, since if you go far back enough you'll find that we're all decedents from immigration - immigrants have just as right to this land as we do. Likewise, we have the right to go to their countries. It is a mutual contract, which lots of us here seem to forget.
You could argue that they're less developed, so Brits don't want to go there. But, surely it is our duty to allow and facilitate the development of these countries? If they are poorer than us, we have a moral obligation to help them. We need to end this right-wing, brutal attitude of international 'survival of the fittest', and start to show genuine concern and compassion for our foreign leaders.
I don't just want the best for Britain. I want the best for Europe and the rest of the world too - they are just as entitled to have as good as lives as us. If they can't have that opportunity in their own countries, and want to come here - we should let them, or invest money in improving their own countries.
This post will appall a lot of you closet racists and xenophobes here, but really think about our moral and social obligations to the rest of the world.
Original post by Blake-inator
Are you suggesting that our ancestors did not build this nation?!
See 'accident of birth', which you've opted to replace here with 'ancestors'. You are not responsible for anything done by your ancestors.
Also, what do you mean by 'build this nation'? They certainly didn't build the physical land, which is ultimately what people want to deny immigrants entry to.
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