Hamas keep new leader secret; an IDF success

OP

FoxNewsRocks

If you havent been to israel, you really cannot form an opinion because the media makes israel out to be the victims when in fact they are nothing but a mini-1940-germany doing the exact same things to the people as the nazis did, only they(israeli`s) do it slower, more covertly and the news media will not report it. The world has no idea what is really going on over there, if they did, israel would be declared a nazi state. Dont believe me?

Go visit there and go to ramallah or any of the west bank areas. Imagine London after the bombings in ww2, then put a wall around it and force people to live in the mess. Thats the "nice" part of whats going on. The palestinians have nothing, and i mean that literally. The rocks they throw are from buildings bombed out by the IDF. Imagine if the military surrounded your town and randomly shot your citizens and run bulldozers over your houses. You would be mad right? You cant run away for theres nowhere to run to. If you do run, you get shot, if you stand your ground, you get shot. Does it make israeli`s feel good to shoot unarmed people?

Do they feel like they(israeli`s) are a mighty force to be reckoned with? When i was there in 2000, some helicopters fired missles into what appeared to be someones home. There is a genocide going on in israel but you`ll never know it from the media. Eventually the israeli`s will either kill or maim everyone in whats supposed to be palestine. I used to be on israels side too until i saw with my own eyes what they were, and are, doing.

Everyone that thinks israel is in the right should go there at least once. They will try to keep you from seeing the west bank but you can go if you demand to and agree that you may be shot dead by IDF with no questions asked. Going to Haifa or any other coastline city you`d think everything was as it is in the western world, thats what they want you to think too. Imagine hell being on earth and thats what you will see in the west bank.

For the real non-filtered facts of whats going on, visit http://www.ifamericaknew.org/

What can we say about this? Another new nazi trying to exploit the political situation (Also, for the sake of completeness, I am not calling you a nazi because you are diasgreeing with me. I am calling you a nazi because of the prejustice messages you have posted about jews on this forum, taken together with your direct lies regarding teh holocoust. ) Repeating a lie doesnt make it true. The mere comparision between teh Nazis and and the Israelis is rediculous. If anyone actually beleive the two cases to be similar it is due to lack of historical knowledge or merely a direct nazistic set of values. You say we should not trust the media because they are biased, but instead we are expected to trust you when telling us this? Please, give me a break. Ultimately what it comes down to is what information you trust the most. That from the BBC and other international news agencies (many of them which has taken quite an anti-Israel stand. Just check out teh scandinavian or greek media) or some paranoid person supplying you with an inconsistent and rediculous conspiracy theory. Since you are found of posting websites , I have one myself.

http://www.nizkor.org

Of course, you will tell us that this is yet another part of some gigantic Jewish propaganda circle, butthat woant stop peaple from reading it and understanding the obvious flaws of your nonsense.

Reply 23

Same old tactics i see.

Reply 24

OP

randdom

I can see where you are comming from and I do believe that it is the responsibility of the Isrealies to stop this conflict. I think it is awful that people are being driven to commit suicide attacks and I don't think we can judge the for doing so. However I don't think it is a good thing that they are killing innorcent people. Isreali children die to! garenteed not in the same numbers that the palistinian children do but I think the international community should try and have less of a biased view and see that the isrealis are commiting acts of terrorism too. America in particular seems to see things as one sided which they aren't. Isreal like I have said should be forced to pull out by the UN because they are occupying and have no right to do so.

It is the responsibility of EVERYONE to try to stop the conflict. It takes two sides to make peace, but only one to destroy it. As for the international communite being biased in favour of Israel, this must be some sort of joke. For christ sake, when was the last time you heard a European leader condem Arafat? How many of th suecide bombings are widely condemmed by the EU foreign ministers? Why do you think the European population consider a small country about half the size of the west middlands with less than 10 million inhabitanst to be the greatest threat to world peace in front of the US, Iraq, Iran and North Korea? Seriously! The UN cannot bring themselves to condemn the palestinian authorities for publicly supporting suecide bombings, but they have blasted the Israeli security fence as if it was a WMD arsenal. I ahgree that Sharon is an asshole, but to blaim Israel for fighting an organisation which publicly anounces the annihilation of all Jews as one of the main targets is rediculous. Israel is not allowed to deend themselves with offesnive methods, and they are condemned for trying tod efend themselves through passive methods (such as teh security fence). Of course, you would perhaps prefer it if teh Israelis just lay down all lines of defence and let the Hamas and PLO run a Holocoust II through the ME. Unfortunately, for you, the Jews remember what happened last tiem they did not use force to defend themselves.

Reply 25

OP

FoxNewsRocks

Same old tactics i see.

Lies may change, but the truth remains the same.

Reply 26

Jonatan,
Facts dont lie. the website for statistics has direct links to the govt websites providing the stats. Click the graphs if you want even further info on the stats. You know, pulling out the nazi card is getting really freaking old. If someone disagrees with anything that has anything to do with a jew, then they are called nazi. F that. I`m not a nazi, i`m a truth seeker and seeing as how jews like yourself get so defensive so fast, you must know theres things that shouldnt be known. So, debate without name calling or be dismissed as just another ADL lackey. If someone even types the word jew someone eventually starts name calling. Well jew jew jew jew jew...thats what you are, live with it. Why do you think jews are supposed to be able to do anything they like and not have debate about it? That isnt gonna happen in America my friend. You may have suckered europeans into shutting up but when theres a discussion to be had i will speak out. I dont hate jews, i hate lies and deception and one sided reporting.

Reply 27

G4ry

Who cares what Jack Straw thinks? The man is an idiot. He's always condoning the actions of Israel. It's ok for him, he's sitting nice and safe in Westminster, wait until there's a suicide bombing here; then he'll take a different stance i suspect.

I'm sure he'd also have a different perspective if an Israeli tank was coming to knock down his house and the Israeli army was destroying everything he had ever worked for.

However, I agree with you to the extent that I neither care what Jack Straw thinks. What he thinks is absolutely meaningless. What he does is more my concern. If he (or the government whose views he simply represents) would stop selling the tanks and weapons to Israel that they commit such atrocities with, then I will pay attention to what he says. However, as the Israeli occupation is so vital to American interests in the region, the British government may as well run into a wall as condemn Israeli actions.

Only when the British and other governments, as well as citizens of the world, stand in solidarity against the US selling weapons and tanks to the Israelis and funding their occupation and oppression of the innocent people of Palestine, will this conflict even see the possibility of an end.

Reply 28

Jonatan

It is the responsibility of EVERYONE to try to stop the conflict. It takes two sides to make peace, but only one to destroy it. As for the international communite being biased in favour of Israel, this must be some sort of joke. For christ sake, when was the last time you heard a European leader condem Arafat? How many of th suecide bombings are widely condemmed by the EU foreign ministers? Why do you think the European population consider a small country about half the size of the west middlands with less than 10 million inhabitanst to be the greatest threat to world peace in front of the US, Iraq, Iran and North Korea? Seriously! The UN cannot bring themselves to condemn the palestinian authorities for publicly supporting suecide bombings, but they have blasted the Israeli security fence as if it was a WMD arsenal. I ahgree that Sharon is an asshole, but to blaim Israel for fighting an organisation which publicly anounces the annihilation of all Jews as one of the main targets is rediculous. Israel is not allowed to deend themselves with offesnive methods, and they are condemned for trying tod efend themselves through passive methods (such as teh security fence). Of course, you would perhaps prefer it if teh Israelis just lay down all lines of defence and let the Hamas and PLO run a Holocoust II through the ME. Unfortunately, for you, the Jews remember what happened last tiem they did not use force to defend themselves.

How do you explain the fact that Israel gets astronomical military aid from the US and UK, which happens to be the highest that the US give to ANY other country in the world?

Reply 29

OP

FoxNewsRocks

Jonatan,
Facts dont lie. the website for statistics has direct links to the govt websites providing the stats. Click the graphs if you want even further info on the stats. You know, pulling out the nazi card is getting really freaking old. If someone disagrees with anything that has anything to do with a jew, then they are called nazi. F that. I`m not a nazi, i`m a truth seeker and seeing as how jews like yourself get so defensive so fast, you must know theres things that shouldnt be known. So, debate without name calling or be dismissed as just another ADL lackey. If someone even types the word jew someone eventually starts name calling. Well jew jew jew jew jew...thats what you are, live with it. Why do you think jews are supposed to be able to do anything they like and not have debate about it? That isnt gonna happen in America my friend. You may have suckered europeans into shutting up but when theres a discussion to be had i will speak out. I dont hate jews, i hate lies and deception and one sided reporting.

Who said I was a Jew? I think you just proved my point. If anyone claims that your posts are bullshit you immediately assume he/she is a Jew (I am not a jew btw). If you dont call this nazism I dont know what. Also, as I stated in a previous post neither your link to the statistics, nor the fact that you disagree with me is why I called you a nazi. I have read enough of your posts to have snapped up the following:

1: You deny the fact that gassing was used by nazis to extermiante jews during WW2.

2: You claim the world media to be corrupt and controlled by some Jewish biased conspiracy

3: You have also stated that the holocoust was teh results of Jewish aggressin and that the Jews "had it comming" during WW2.

There is more in addition to this and anyone who bothers to just click the link to your username (Yes folks, I chalange you to do this. Dont trust me! Go see for yourselves) can read your messages and see that I am not exhagurating.

Reply 30

That is the grossest misinterpretation of what i said that i have ever seen. Whether you a jew or not isnt important to me. Supply me with some facts is all i ask. And see if you can save your nazi card for a real nazi and stop wasting them on me. If you wanna start a holocaust thread do it and we`ll carry on there. This is a israel/palestine thread.

Reply 31

OP

kingslaw

How do you explain the fact that Israel gets astronomical military aid from the US and UK, which happens to be the highest that the US give to ANY other country in the world?

First of all, most of the economical support from teh US to Israel comes from private donations. Second, the "military" aid you are talking about is that Israel is allowed to buy weapons and military supplies from the US. The main reason Israel ereceives foreign AID from teh US is because teh US is pretty pro-Israel (Europe is not however, the foreign Aid the arab countries receive from the EU countries far exceed that of Israel. Some EU countries has even discussed economical sanctions against Israel). Also, if you want to talk about aid programmes you may want to check what Europe has given the palestinian authority, and check how much of this the palestinian populations has got to enyoy (Hint, the former is about 9 figures larger than the latter).

Reply 32

Jonatan

First of all, most of the economical support from teh US to Israel comes from private donations.

Just because 'most' of the aid given to Israel from the US is private, does not mean that it does not get an astronomical amount from the US government (although I would contend whether what you said is true anyway!).

Jonatan

Second, the "military" aid you are talking about is that Israel is allowed to buy weapons and military supplies from the US. The main reason Israel ereceives foreign AID from teh US is because teh US is pretty pro-Israel (Europe is not however, the foreign Aid the arab countries receive from the EU countries far exceed that of Israel. Some EU countries has even discussed economical sanctions against Israel).

And with whose money does Israel buy these weapons with? US $ of course, which is in effect simply giving the Israelis weapons. There is no way a country of Israels size could maintain financially such a huge and sophisticated army simply with its own tax money!

Of course countries have talked about sanctions against Israel. Every country in the world has. But I dont give a toss about what they talk about, I'm more bothered about what they do - which at the moment is standing behind the US and its plans for the Middle East.

Jonatan

Also, if you want to talk about aid programmes you may want to check what Europe has given the palestinian authority, and check how much of this the palestinian populations has got to enyoy (Hint, the former is about 9 figures larger than the latter).

I would love to talk about these aid programmes. However please give me some evidence of these aid programmes to prove that your not talking absolute bullsh*t (Hint: Humanitarian aid from groups such as Oxfam dont count).

Reply 33

Jonatan

First of all, most of the economical support from teh US to Israel comes from private donations.

If you call tax payers "private donations" then that would be a true statement. The US govt gives israel more aid than the next 5 biggest aid-recieving countries combined.

Second, the "military" aid you are talking about is that Israel is allowed to buy weapons and military supplies from the US.

The US govt gives money and weapons to israel. Thats the point of the argument.

The main reason Israel ereceives foreign AID from teh US is because teh US is pretty pro-Israel (Europe is not however, the foreign Aid the arab countries receive from the EU countries far exceed that of Israel. Some EU countries has even discussed economical sanctions against Israel).

European govts may give more to arab nations, i dont know about those stats, but i do know that its USaid thats allowing israel to do what they do.

Also, if you want to talk about aid programmes you may want to check what Europe has given the palestinian authority, and check how much of this the palestinian populations has got to enyoy (Hint, the former is about 9 figures larger than the latter).

Show some facts to prove these points. Also why shouldnt the US give weapons and money to the palestinians too? Isnt that only fair? but we dont. Then they could fight it out mano-a-mano and get it over with because thats obviously what its going to take.

Reply 34

And i dont think any of us here has said arafat is a "good person". I`m sure hes no better than sharon. None of us here said suicide bombing was good, nor did we say it was acceptable, we simply debating on the whys and the whynots. If you pick one evil over another evil, you still end up with evil. People dont blow themselves up for no reason, thats the thing you need to consider.

Reply 35

OP

FoxNewsRocks

That is the grossest misinterpretation of what i said that i have ever seen.

Sure, why dont we let peopel decide for themselves if they considder you to be racist or not? As people probably do not wish to search through the entire uk-learning site I have included three of your quotes I think is quite "illustrative" on the matter.

Here are some links from previosus "FoxNewsRocks" messages:

"Howard, that was a very jewish thing to say. You should be ashamed."
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=570087#post570087

I dont blame the black man for trying to get white women, I blame white women for being stupid enough to allow it to happen.
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=560160#post560160

After the govt of germany took actions against this jewish rebellion, hitler then comitted a blunder by trying to go too far in retaliation by putting the jews into CONCENTRATION CAMPS just like America did japanese and germans during early WW2. Had he just took care of his business and not had the whole of europe on his mind, he would have been successful. ( i`m no hitler fan, he was a monster by all means but no proof of gassings has ever been proven.) They(jews) will never in a million years admit that they caused their own demise, but historical facts bare it out that they did in fact cause it.
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=527855#post527855

Reply 36

Jonatan

Sure, why dont we let peopel decide for themselves if they considder you to be racist or not? As people probably do not wish to search through the entire uk-learning site I have included three of your quotes I think is quite "illustrative" on the matter.

Here are some links from previosus "FoxNewsRocks" messages:

"Howard, that was a very jewish thing to say. You should be ashamed."
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=570087#post570087

I dont blame the black man for trying to get white women, I blame white women for being stupid enough to allow it to happen.
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=560160#post560160

After the govt of germany took actions against this jewish rebellion, hitler then comitted a blunder by trying to go too far in retaliation by putting the jews into CONCENTRATION CAMPS just like America did japanese and germans during early WW2. Had he just took care of his business and not had the whole of europe on his mind, he would have been successful. ( i`m no hitler fan, he was a monster by all means but no proof of gassings has ever been proven.) They(jews) will never in a million years admit that they caused their own demise, but historical facts bare it out that they did in fact cause it.
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=527855#post527855

OK, and know back to the discussion. Will you please provide a link to all this US/European aid info?

If you want to debate the above, open another thread.

Reply 37

randdom

20

Jonatan

Sure, why dont we let peopel decide for themselves if they considder you to be racist or not? As people probably do not wish to search through the entire uk-learning site I have included three of your quotes I think is quite "illustrative" on the matter.

Here are some links from previosus "FoxNewsRocks" messages:

"Howard, that was a very jewish thing to say. You should be ashamed."
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=570087#post570087

I dont blame the black man for trying to get white women, I blame white women for being stupid enough to allow it to happen.
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=560160#post560160

After the govt of germany took actions against this jewish rebellion, hitler then comitted a blunder by trying to go too far in retaliation by putting the jews into CONCENTRATION CAMPS just like America did japanese and germans during early WW2. Had he just took care of his business and not had the whole of europe on his mind, he would have been successful. ( i`m no hitler fan, he was a monster by all means but no proof of gassings has ever been proven.) They(jews) will never in a million years admit that they caused their own demise, but historical facts bare it out that they did in fact cause it.
http://www.uk-learning.net/showthread.php?p=527855#post527855

Just because he has said these things on other threads does not mean that his oppinion on this topic is any less important than anyone else. Maybe you are reading his posts on the topic (not the one about you personally) and not taking in what he is saying. On this thread he has posted some informative posts and I agree with him that America is supporting Isreal more than the Palistinians and that this is wronge.

Reply 38