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'Socialism is a philosophy of failure.' Discuss.

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Original post by Fullofsurprises
I don't think many people in modern societies know what true socialism is, although people have reached for it. The comradeship and happiness of groups like the Levellers, or a modern example - the Kibbutzim - are possible examples.]

The Levellers weren't socialists. They were early classical liberals.
Reply 81
Original post by The Dictator
Pinochet was an apolitical military dictator pressured into economic reforms by the US and the Chicago Boys, who helped end the dictatorship. Capitalism was the resulted in the end of oppression it did not cause the oppression to happen. Pinochet didn't wake up one day and decide "Hmm, free markets! I quite like the idea and will overthrow the government to impose it on EVERYONE!"


The US supported the coup against (democratically elected) Allende in the first place! They have undermined governments with even a whiff of socialism about them around the world and imposed dictators where needed to.

The Chicago Boys- the architects of Neoliberalism, the ideology that has seen wealth disparity increase for the first time since the Industrial Revolution.

I'm not entirely against Capitalism but neo-liberalism has been a disaster.
Original post by whorace
Rofl you couldn't make it up.

Before the evil government came 2/3 of the population lived in absolute poverty.

You are an ideologue, nothing the government does can be good in your view, and everything private enterprise does is bad.

That's why i'm more fit to rule than you, because I recognise both have strengths and weakness.


Makes no sense whatsoever. The state has been the biggest architect for the plundering of productive men and women and the destruction of wealth as well as the massacre of human beings since creation. In feudal times, both labour and capital were heavily controlled by the state. Once those controls were relaxed, wealth accumulated rapidly by newly-liberated individuals not afraid to try out new ideas and test the waters free and unafraid of state intervention.
Original post by DK_Tipp
The US supported the coup against (democratically elected) Allende in the first place! They have undermined governments with even a whiff of socialism about them around the world and imposed dictators where needed to.

The Chicago Boys- the architects of Neoliberalism, the ideology that has seen wealth disparity increase for the first time since the Industrial Revolution.

I'm not entirely against Capitalism but neo-liberalism has been a disaster.


Allende stood for President three times and on the third attempt he only narrowly won, and even then thanks to a broad left-wing coalition. Not a resounding mandate for Marxist dictatorship.

Um, you have forgotten Perón's dictatorship which was supported by the United States. Perón was a socialist.

In any case, I do not see democracy as an absolute so I do not mind seeing democratic regimes toppled by the United States unless it is against our national self-interest. I am quite happy that we have intervened to overthrow democratic regimes if they were undermining the cause of freedom and Western civilisation, for example, the Suez intervention and Mossadegh's nationalisation of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.

And neo-liberalism has not been a disaster, in fact it would be even more successful if it were not for consistent government intervention.
Reply 84
Original post by The Dictator
Allende stood for President three times and on the third attempt he only narrowly won, and even then thanks to a broad left-wing coalition. Not a resounding mandate for Marxist dictatorship.

Um, you have forgotten Perón's dictatorship which was supported by the United States. Perón was a socialist.

In any case, I do not see democracy as an absolute so I do not mind seeing democratic regimes toppled by the United States unless it is against our national self-interest. I am quite happy that we have intervened to overthrow democratic regimes if they were undermining the cause of freedom and Western civilisation, for example, the Suez intervention and Mossadegh's nationalisation of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.

And neo-liberalism has not been a disaster, in fact it would be even more successful if it were not for consistent government intervention.


Allende was still elected.

Peron was no Socialist, in fact he derided by socialists.

Ah yes, Mosaddegh, the progressive, democratic secularist who wanted the people who elected him to benefit from the natural resources under their own feet. Sounds like a dangerous man alright.

Of course the CIA and MI6 decided to have him taken out and replaced with a playboy. Remind me... How did that go? Iran must surely be a shining beacon of liberal Western Capitalism at this stage?

That fact that you're willing to undermine democracy in support of economic interests tallies with your name and the picture of that mass-murder Cromwell.
Original post by DK_Tipp
Allende was still elected.

Peron was no Socialist, in fact he derided by socialists.

Ah yes, Mosaddegh, the progressive, democratic secularist who wanted the people who elected him to benefit from the natural resources under their own feet. Sounds like a dangerous man alright.

Of course the CIA and MI6 decided to have him taken out and replaced with a playboy. Remind me... How did that go? Iran must surely be a shining beacon of liberal Western Capitalism at this stage?

That fact that you're willing to undermine democracy in support of economic interests tallies with your name and the picture of that mass-murder Cromwell.


He stole private property, and was a fascist and a demagogue. Of course it was right to turf him out. The Shah did a much better job, and was leading Iran to civilisation and security, until the mullah reaction. I've always thought we should have stepped in with troops to stop his savage people returning their country to the Dark Age.

I hate democracy and have hated it for years. I would happily see democracy undermined in exchange for economic freedom. I'd rather be a businessman in Egypt than North Korea, for example. Because democracy is a dictatorship of the mob, and their exploitation of the productive minority through the state. Venezuela is a perfect example.

As for Cromwell, he acted no differently to other generals at this period in time. The Irish were rebels and Stuart sympathisers. They had to be dealt with. I would remind you that Cromwell held the country together after the end of royalist tyranny and should be regarded as the father of our liberties.

As for Perón, I agree with you that he was more of a corporatist than a socialist, but broadly speaking, a socialist.
(edited 8 years ago)

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