This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- HELP !! Deciding whether I should do an apprenticeship or go to university for chem
- Working Class / Left wing football clubs?
- What is Your Favorite Football Club
- The Liverpool FC Thread XVII
- Bundesliga
- Liverpool vs Bristol for history
- ✨All Things Royal✨ Spam!
- Whats everyone up to?
- What team do you support and why?
- CTFT (IRN) - Count To Five Thousand (In Roman Numerals)
- Question Everything
- Make it More Princess-ey !!
- diary of a first year medic
- Any ideas for IRP a level french?
- Things EA Sports FC Needs To Change From FC 24
- rosarian v a-levels. ~r's gyg 2024⭐
- Liverpool medicine A100 2023
- Official University of Liverpool Applicant Thread for 2024
- International Aspiring Medical Student - Need help narrowing schools
- OFFICIAL A101 Liverpool University Graduate Entry Medicine Thread 2024 Entry
The Liverpool FC Thread XIV
Scroll to see replies
Think it's safe to say Klopp has a huge rebuilding job on his hands this summer. We were utter **** and a good team would have beaten us 3-0.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Brendon's interview on sky sports. Meh not impressed tbh.
There isn't need for a massive ****fest over this. Defeats to United always feel the worst.
We've been conceding set pieces for fun since Rafa left, Klopp isn't going to turn around 5 years of ********ery in 5 months, especially not with a keeper like Mignolet and a CB duo that changes every game. Conceding from a set piece isn't really the issue.
The main problem is the lack of goals, and the blame has to be on Henderson, Milner and Lallana. Lallana doesn't get into goalscoring positions and he also doesn't score them. Milner's role isn't really to get in them, he definitely doesn't score them, and he also doesn't contribute to the technical attacking play. Henderson does everything well except finish (absolute lols that some would have him at number 10). A better player than Henderson would have finished at least one of his chances today, and we're paying for that.
Firmino is a creater, not a scorer, and created just fine for us today. Trying to blame him for anything is retarded, he created 5 chances today, including a 1 on 1 for Henderson with a flick in the box, a free shot from 18 yards for Henderson (after making a run and holding off 3 United players), and a 50 yard volleyed pass that set Milner up too. Pick better targets.
As for Benteke, in 9 games that we've started him, we've scored 10 goals, the only time we've scored two being the Origi equaliser against West Brom. We play better and score better without him starting and that's a fact.
We've been conceding set pieces for fun since Rafa left, Klopp isn't going to turn around 5 years of ********ery in 5 months, especially not with a keeper like Mignolet and a CB duo that changes every game. Conceding from a set piece isn't really the issue.
The main problem is the lack of goals, and the blame has to be on Henderson, Milner and Lallana. Lallana doesn't get into goalscoring positions and he also doesn't score them. Milner's role isn't really to get in them, he definitely doesn't score them, and he also doesn't contribute to the technical attacking play. Henderson does everything well except finish (absolute lols that some would have him at number 10). A better player than Henderson would have finished at least one of his chances today, and we're paying for that.
Firmino is a creater, not a scorer, and created just fine for us today. Trying to blame him for anything is retarded, he created 5 chances today, including a 1 on 1 for Henderson with a flick in the box, a free shot from 18 yards for Henderson (after making a run and holding off 3 United players), and a 50 yard volleyed pass that set Milner up too. Pick better targets.
As for Benteke, in 9 games that we've started him, we've scored 10 goals, the only time we've scored two being the Origi equaliser against West Brom. We play better and score better without him starting and that's a fact.
Firmino, Sakho, Lucas come out of today looking pretty good. Milner can't be starting in the front three anymore, Lallana needs upgrading this summer too. You are definitely being a whopper if you're looking at Klopp to blame.
It pisses me off when people look at our results under Rodgers and Klopp and genuinely ask whether we think things are better now. Of course they bloody are.
Did people honestly think that as soon as Klopp came in, we'd instantly turn in to exactly what we need without spending a penny?
The man has had absolutely no preparation, no money and has come in to the most competitive league in the world with a set of half injured players, none of whom know his systems. He doesn't have a single Dortmund player who can help the others adapt to his playing style. He has come in as blind as it gets, yet people still expect he'll do better than a man who had several years and over £200m to spend.
As soon as Rodgers got sacked, this season was always going to be a write off. If we just so happened to click under Klopp and achieve top 4, that would've been outstanding but is anybody honestly surprised that it looks like we won't?
People may criticise Klopp but they must understand that in a matter of months, the man has made us the most creative team in the league, statistically speaking. We create the most chances and have the most shots in the league - how can the man possibly do more than that?
It's up to the players to finish the many chances that are made, not Klopp.
I guess the silver lining of top 4 being (more or less) unreachable is that we can put absolutely everything in to the League Cup and Europa League. The latter would be extremely hard to win, but it's a CL place so we really have to go all out.
Klopp as our manager gives us much more pull than under Rodgers in general. If we had CL football on top of that, I'd expect a very exciting summer.
Did people honestly think that as soon as Klopp came in, we'd instantly turn in to exactly what we need without spending a penny?
The man has had absolutely no preparation, no money and has come in to the most competitive league in the world with a set of half injured players, none of whom know his systems. He doesn't have a single Dortmund player who can help the others adapt to his playing style. He has come in as blind as it gets, yet people still expect he'll do better than a man who had several years and over £200m to spend.
As soon as Rodgers got sacked, this season was always going to be a write off. If we just so happened to click under Klopp and achieve top 4, that would've been outstanding but is anybody honestly surprised that it looks like we won't?
People may criticise Klopp but they must understand that in a matter of months, the man has made us the most creative team in the league, statistically speaking. We create the most chances and have the most shots in the league - how can the man possibly do more than that?
It's up to the players to finish the many chances that are made, not Klopp.
I guess the silver lining of top 4 being (more or less) unreachable is that we can put absolutely everything in to the League Cup and Europa League. The latter would be extremely hard to win, but it's a CL place so we really have to go all out.
Klopp as our manager gives us much more pull than under Rodgers in general. If we had CL football on top of that, I'd expect a very exciting summer.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by sr90
Think it's safe to say Klopp has a huge rebuilding job on his hands this summer. We were utter **** and a good team would have beaten us 3-0.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
We've ended up needing a major rebuild every summer since Hodgson came in and signed **** like Konchesky and Poulsen. We ended up losing most of our best players all the time after that and our rate of success with new signings was probably worse than 1 in 3?
Original post by Zerforax
We've ended up needing a major rebuild every summer since Hodgson came in and signed **** like Konchesky and Poulsen. We ended up losing most of our best players all the time after that and our rate of success with new signings was probably worse than 1 in 3?
You need to ditch that stupid transfer committee. I refuse to believe Klopp had anything to do with signing Steven Caulker
Original post by Lúcio
x
Feels like your exaggerating valid factors in order to unnecessarily write off the entire season.
This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.
I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
(edited 8 years ago)
Where to start then, eh?
I usually distance myself from TSR straight after a match, and post elongated thoughts. But this week, I won't. Namely, because I'm surprised to say that my thoughts right now at 9pm are exactly the same as at full-time.
I've got one thought: we need a goalscorer. It doesn't even have to be a striker, though that would help. It merely needs to be a match-winner.
I look at our first-team today, and there's a lack of goalscorers. Firmino may get you a pearler, like on Wednesday night against Arsenal, but he's new to the PL and raw and doesn't need to be a first port of call for any club. He needs to be your third or fourth most likely goalscorer, in truth. Lallana hasn't scored in months, seemingly, and Henderson/Milner will only get you five a season - maybe slightly more.
Aside from that, we had nothing. It's great being great in the middle of the pitch. It's wonderful. It's great to watch. Arsenal spent a decade doing that. They were a beautiful footballing side, and many pundits' darlings, but they didn't win anything. And we won't win anything with this current side. Why? Because - like that Arsenal side - we aren't good enough where it matters: in each final third. We're great in the middle third, and terrible in the other two.
We can't defend. We can't defend set-pieces especially, and it was all so familiar today. it was Groundhog Day, and utterly predictable. Fellaini sets up a Rooney winner from a corner. I saw that telegraphed from minute one, for Christ's sake. That's SEVEN corners we've conceded from this season, and follows a long run of poor defended set-pieces at Anfield: Southampton, WBA, Palace.
It's worth remembering that Klopp needs a transfer window. We can't judge him with these players. The tactics are spot on - we get close to the goal and set up the chances - we just can't execute it properly. We need to be judging Klopp in May 2017, in truth.
Also remember that Wenger came in at Arsenal mid-season, and the Gunners were mediocre. Just like we are now. What did he do? He went out and signed Petit, Anelka, Overmars. What happened next? They won the league.
I'm not saying we'll win the league next season - but I'm saying there's hope we can be better and more fluid and more decisive, and more importantly, better in both penalty boxes.
I usually distance myself from TSR straight after a match, and post elongated thoughts. But this week, I won't. Namely, because I'm surprised to say that my thoughts right now at 9pm are exactly the same as at full-time.
I've got one thought: we need a goalscorer. It doesn't even have to be a striker, though that would help. It merely needs to be a match-winner.
I look at our first-team today, and there's a lack of goalscorers. Firmino may get you a pearler, like on Wednesday night against Arsenal, but he's new to the PL and raw and doesn't need to be a first port of call for any club. He needs to be your third or fourth most likely goalscorer, in truth. Lallana hasn't scored in months, seemingly, and Henderson/Milner will only get you five a season - maybe slightly more.
Aside from that, we had nothing. It's great being great in the middle of the pitch. It's wonderful. It's great to watch. Arsenal spent a decade doing that. They were a beautiful footballing side, and many pundits' darlings, but they didn't win anything. And we won't win anything with this current side. Why? Because - like that Arsenal side - we aren't good enough where it matters: in each final third. We're great in the middle third, and terrible in the other two.
We can't defend. We can't defend set-pieces especially, and it was all so familiar today. it was Groundhog Day, and utterly predictable. Fellaini sets up a Rooney winner from a corner. I saw that telegraphed from minute one, for Christ's sake. That's SEVEN corners we've conceded from this season, and follows a long run of poor defended set-pieces at Anfield: Southampton, WBA, Palace.
It's worth remembering that Klopp needs a transfer window. We can't judge him with these players. The tactics are spot on - we get close to the goal and set up the chances - we just can't execute it properly. We need to be judging Klopp in May 2017, in truth.
Also remember that Wenger came in at Arsenal mid-season, and the Gunners were mediocre. Just like we are now. What did he do? He went out and signed Petit, Anelka, Overmars. What happened next? They won the league.
I'm not saying we'll win the league next season - but I'm saying there's hope we can be better and more fluid and more decisive, and more importantly, better in both penalty boxes.
Original post by sr90
You need to ditch that stupid transfer committee. I refuse to believe Klopp had anything to do with signing Steven Caulker
He's their new star striker, of course Klopp had everything to do with it.
Original post by sr90
You need to ditch that stupid transfer committee. I refuse to believe Klopp had anything to do with signing Steven Caulker
Hard to judge. Depending on which source you read, the players that the transfer committee picked have tended to the successful ones whereas the ones that Rodgers picked were more flops/overpriced/from PL.
Caulker signing isnt the world in the world since it's just a 6 month loan. Not sure how much involvement Klopp had at Dortmund for transfers? A lot of European managers are happy not having total control over everything.
Original post by Lúcio
It pisses me off when people look at our results under Rodgers and Klopp and genuinely ask whether we think things are better now. Of course they bloody are.
Did people honestly think that as soon as Klopp came in, we'd instantly turn in to exactly what we need without spending a penny?
The man has had absolutely no preparation, no money and has come in to the most competitive league in the world with a set of half injured players, none of whom know his systems. He doesn't have a single Dortmund player who can help the others adapt to his playing style. He has come in as blind as it gets, yet people still expect he'll do better than a man who had several years and over £200m to spend.
As soon as Rodgers got sacked, this season was always going to be a write off. If we just so happened to click under Klopp and achieve top 4, that would've been outstanding but is anybody honestly surprised that it looks like we won't?
People may criticise Klopp but they must understand that in a matter of months, the man has made us the most creative team in the league, statistically speaking. We create the most chances and have the most shots in the league - how can the man possibly do more than that?
It's up to the players to finish the many chances that are made, not Klopp.
I guess the silver lining of top 4 being (more or less) unreachable is that we can put absolutely everything in to the League Cup and Europa League. The latter would be extremely hard to win, but it's a CL place so we really have to go all out.
Klopp as our manager gives us much more pull than under Rodgers in general. If we had CL football on top of that, I'd expect a very exciting summer.
Did people honestly think that as soon as Klopp came in, we'd instantly turn in to exactly what we need without spending a penny?
The man has had absolutely no preparation, no money and has come in to the most competitive league in the world with a set of half injured players, none of whom know his systems. He doesn't have a single Dortmund player who can help the others adapt to his playing style. He has come in as blind as it gets, yet people still expect he'll do better than a man who had several years and over £200m to spend.
As soon as Rodgers got sacked, this season was always going to be a write off. If we just so happened to click under Klopp and achieve top 4, that would've been outstanding but is anybody honestly surprised that it looks like we won't?
People may criticise Klopp but they must understand that in a matter of months, the man has made us the most creative team in the league, statistically speaking. We create the most chances and have the most shots in the league - how can the man possibly do more than that?
It's up to the players to finish the many chances that are made, not Klopp.
I guess the silver lining of top 4 being (more or less) unreachable is that we can put absolutely everything in to the League Cup and Europa League. The latter would be extremely hard to win, but it's a CL place so we really have to go all out.
Klopp as our manager gives us much more pull than under Rodgers in general. If we had CL football on top of that, I'd expect a very exciting summer.
Yeah but are things really better now?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by sevchenko
Feels like your exaggerating valid factors in order to unnecessarily write off the entire season.
This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.
I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.
I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
Whilst I understand what you mean, I don't agree.
It's quite clear that Klopp has an uncanny ability to make the players perform well above expected level in rival games. Even today - although we couldn't convert, several players (Sakho, Lucas, Firmino) still played really well and we created a massive amount of chances.
Whether it's players trying to impress the new manager in the big games or it's an input from Klopp (most likely a combination of both), we seem to be able to produce the goods in the big games.
We do however revert back to our general uselessness in other games that we should win.
A new manager can only do so much - if you look at Spurs you see a side that sometimes stumbles but never too much. They always keep themselves in check and there's a frightening level of consistency in their play, especially this season, especially now their manager has had a good few years with them.
Liverpool on the other hand have been perhaps the most inconsistent/unpredictable side in the Premier League for many years now. We never know which Liverpool is coming out to play. When the match began earlier, it looked like it would be the same Liverpool we saw against City/Chelsea.
It wasn't.
In the big games we have displayed a side that can rival any in the league, however in the others we have displayed a side that would never get close to top 4. Top 4 was achievable when Klopp took over, but it was more hope than expectation. We've played some great games against City, Chelsea and Arsenal but I feel like this is a bit of a reality check for us.
We won't reach where we want to be unless we make signings and today was a painful example of where we need one the most.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by hayles101
I'm sorry, I don't associate myself with people who lost their YouTube fame
Really good interview with BR on Goals on Sunday today. He acted pretty classy throughout, and didn't have a bad word to say about Liverpool, our fans, or our staff - past or present. I hope he finds work soon.
Original post by sevchenko
Feels like your exaggerating valid factors in order to unnecessarily write off the entire season.
This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.
I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.
I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
The highlighted bit is what jars me. We won't even finish 7th the way we're going, which is frankly awful. In the short term I expected a small improvement on Rodgers, at least - but we find ourselves unable to string any form of consistency together.
I have faith in Klopp but the honeymoon period is well and truly over.
Klopp - like any manager - is not beyond scrutiny. We mustn't be afraid to question him, his decisions, and his ways of working. I think that the tactics are spot on, though. At least, they were today. We simply didn't have the personnel to execute them.
Was at work so I didn't see the match.
Personally I'm not overly fussed over our league position this season, we've all seen the potential in the team in some of our games vs City/Chelsea/Southampton. Klopp needs time to fine tune the players and get them playing his way, not to mention he needs the financial backing to buy his own players. Don't forget he's been handed Rodgers' team and you can only polish a piece of **** so much. If we win the Carling Cup and end up 7th/8th I won't be up in arms as we can clearly see what Klopp is aiming to do. All he needs is our faith and patience in him and the team. Give him at least two seasons to sort the team to his liking and maybe then I might start to criticise him if its not working. I truly believe Klopp is the right man for us and he definitely deserves unanimous support. After all Rome wasn't built in a day...
Personally I'm not overly fussed over our league position this season, we've all seen the potential in the team in some of our games vs City/Chelsea/Southampton. Klopp needs time to fine tune the players and get them playing his way, not to mention he needs the financial backing to buy his own players. Don't forget he's been handed Rodgers' team and you can only polish a piece of **** so much. If we win the Carling Cup and end up 7th/8th I won't be up in arms as we can clearly see what Klopp is aiming to do. All he needs is our faith and patience in him and the team. Give him at least two seasons to sort the team to his liking and maybe then I might start to criticise him if its not working. I truly believe Klopp is the right man for us and he definitely deserves unanimous support. After all Rome wasn't built in a day...
Original post by hayles101
Klopp has had loads of injuries and very little time to fix the squad. Liverpool are struggling for goals because their best striker has been injured for the entire season basically, their other striker is misfiring to an extent and the team are not suited to playing to his strengths, they have an attacking midfielder playing up top and before that they had a 20 year old striker who is in his first season in the prem so was obviously going to struggle with any form of consistency.
So I believe that Klopp deserves time and that this season should be a write off. Matter of fact is that Liverpool are in a very good position to win silverware this season(something that hasn't been done for 3 years) which is a base to bigger and better things. At least Klopp can make Liverpool a cup team and get them in the top 4, that can be a base for them to build on(see e.g. Simeone at Atlético if you want an example of that)
Half of the problem is we've not had a consistent team at any point this season, when was the last time we started the same XI for more than two consecutive games? The team can't gel because it's always being changed. It'll take at least until the end of the season to determine a 'true' starting XI.
Related discussions
- HELP !! Deciding whether I should do an apprenticeship or go to university for chem
- Working Class / Left wing football clubs?
- What is Your Favorite Football Club
- The Liverpool FC Thread XVII
- Bundesliga
- Liverpool vs Bristol for history
- ✨All Things Royal✨ Spam!
- Whats everyone up to?
- What team do you support and why?
- CTFT (IRN) - Count To Five Thousand (In Roman Numerals)
- Question Everything
- Make it More Princess-ey !!
- diary of a first year medic
- Any ideas for IRP a level french?
- Things EA Sports FC Needs To Change From FC 24
- rosarian v a-levels. ~r's gyg 2024⭐
- Liverpool medicine A100 2023
- Official University of Liverpool Applicant Thread for 2024
- International Aspiring Medical Student - Need help narrowing schools
- OFFICIAL A101 Liverpool University Graduate Entry Medicine Thread 2024 Entry
