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Why do people think Muslim's don't do enough against ISIS? watch

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    (Original post by mkap)
    Seriously why do people don't think Muslims don't do enough about ISIS? you just think that we sit back and watch the news and agree with ISIS 100%. well guess what we don't.

    Majority of Muslims don't agree with ISIS and their dumb extreme actions does affect us Muslims. We cant even get on buses or public transport without people looking at us in disgust or verbally abuse us and act like we are the ones who go blowing up people.

    Even an American school nearby in Jeddah has got an ISIS threat just because its American and the population of the school is majority Muslim. Literally everyone hates our religion now and attacks it constantly.

    So i ask you what can Muslims do apart from educate our Muslim community. its not like we can all hold hands and go to Syria and knock em all out.

    Do you really think that if we knew someone who had terrorist ideologies we would just let them walk free, no because Muslims get killed too and at the end of the day its innocent human life that is killed whether a person is Muslim or not.

    /rant over :getmecoat:
    you cant mention ISIS in isolation, islamic state is one and latest of perhaps hundreds of nasty islamist organisations over the years. and no, the islamic world has done next to nothing to stop their rise - islamsits hold positions of power and influence throughout and your average muslim accepts this status quo without much protest.

    compare that with the protest muslims from all over the globe make toward a conflict in a tiny part of of the middle east ( ie jerusalem) purely becuase of islamic reasoning
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    you cant mention ISIS in isolation, islamic state is one and latest of perhaps hundreds of nasty islamist organisations over the years. and no, the islamic world has done next to nothing to stop their rise - islamsits hold positions of power and influence throughout and your average muslim accepts this status quo without much protest.

    compare that with the protest muslims from all over the globe make toward a conflict in a tiny part of of the middle east ( ie jerusalem) purely becuase of islamic reasoning
    "The Islamic world has done next to nothing to stop their rise"

    What ignorant BS. I mean, Muslims are only dying fighting them in Syria. -_-
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    "The Islamic world has done next to nothing to stop their rise"

    What ignorant BS. I mean, Muslims are only dying fighting them in Syria. -_-
    again i made the point to you before that many of the muslims fighting is are either shias or yazedi christians - the question is not whether muslims are fighting IS ( syrian ones are simply to defend their own homeland from sunnis)
    the question is what the wider islamic world is doing to tackle their ideology and prominence in their societies. there are major islamist groups in every siginificant muslim population on the planet - why is that do you think
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Islam has moved on,.
    really? in what way
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    really? in what way
    Oh I don't know... maybe the fact that there are 1.5 billion Muslims who evidently don't act word-to-word on the Quran's teachings


    (Original post by Reformed)
    again i made the point to you before that many of the muslims fighting is are either shias or yazedi christians - the question is not whether muslims are fighting IS ( syrian ones are simply to defend their own homeland from sunnis)
    the question is what the wider islamic world is doing to tackle their ideology and prominence in their societies. there are major islamist groups in every siginificant muslim population on the planet - why is that do you think
    You said the Islamic world has done next to nothing to tackle the rise of ISIS.

    Don't wriggle out of this one
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Oh I don't know... maybe the fact that there are 1.5 billion Muslims who evidently don't act word-to-word on the Quran's teachings
    if there are 1.5 billion muslims that dont accept word for word the quran, then they arnt muslims. youll have to revise down your figures

    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    You said the Islamic world has done next to nothing to tackle the rise of ISIS.

    Don't wriggle out of this one
    i said , and i quote-- "you cant mention ISIS in isolation, islamic state is one and latest of perhaps hundreds of nasty islamist organisations over the years. and no, the islamic world has done next to nothing to stop their rise"
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    if there are 1.5 billion muslims that dont accept word for word the quran, then they arnt muslims. youll have to revise down your figures



    i said , and i quote-- "you cant mention ISIS in isolation, islamic state is one and latest of perhaps hundreds of nasty islamist organisations over the years. and no, the islamic world has done next to nothing to stop their rise"
    Meanwhile there are millions of Christians, Hindus, Jews, etc.. who all don't follow their holy scriptures word-for-word.

    It isn't a binary decision between "atheist" and "Muslim", its a continuous spectrum.

    And evidently the Islamic world has and is doing stuff to prevent their rise.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    Meanwhile there are millions of Christians, Hindus, Jews, etc.. who all don't follow their holy scriptures word-for-word.

    It isn't a binary decision between "atheist" and "Muslim", its a continuous spectrum.

    And evidently the Islamic world has and is doing stuff to prevent their rise.
    once again stepping into the realms of irrelevancy when your claims hit a brick wall. the millions of other people in other faiths arnt the problem here behind islamic fundamentalism are they.
    we are talking about what the islamic world are/arnt ding to deal with their own problem
    not enough evidentally
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    once again stepping into the realms of irrelevancy when your claims hit a brick wall. the millions of other people in other faiths arnt the problem here behind islamic fundamentalism are they.
    we are talking about what the islamic world are/arnt ding to deal with their own problem
    not enough evidentally
    The Islamic World are sending soldiers to fight against ISIS, just last week the Islamic world recovered Palmyra from them.

    -_-
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    The Islamic World are sending soldiers to fight against ISIS, just last week the Islamic world recovered Palmyra from them.

    -_-
    not really, syria and irai shias are fighting, plus kurds and yazedis - all local to the area. palmyra was recovered by assads army. the wider 'islamic world' are simply sending recruits to the islamist organisations- IS are drawing in muslims from nigeria to indonesia and everywhere in between

    and you didnt answer my question why islamist group have risen to prominence all over the islamic world
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    The only armies that are *really* fighting ISIS :
    -Russian Armed Forces
    -Syrian Arab Armed Forces
    -Iraqi Armed Forces

    Unfortunately the US,UK,Saudi Arabia ,Turkey and others have been supplying the terrorists either directly or not.
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    Britons have bent over backwards and foregone a lot of equality in order to appease muslims. I really don't think it is out of order to ask for just a little bit back and not get snapped at for mentioning it.

    Muslims wanted to come to UK, we didn't ask them to.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Are you seriously denying that the Koran contains passages where the Moslems were commanded to kill unbelievers?
    Nope, but what I am saying is that those specific commands are only for specific situations. Hence, they revealed in response to an event.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    Nope, but what I am saying is that those specific commands are only for specific situations. Hence, they revealed in response to an event.
    Then you do agree that the Koran contains instructions to commit violence against non-believers? You are just arguing that those verses were restricted to individual situations?
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    Likewise.



    "(And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess" [4:24]. Muhammad ibn "Abd al-Rahman al-Bunani informed us> Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Hamdan> Abu Ya"la> "Amr al-Naqid> Abu Ahmad al-Zubayri> Sufyan> "Uthman al-Batti> Abu"l-Khalil> Abu Sa"id al-Khudri who said: "We had captured female prisoners of war on the day of Awtas and because they were already married we disliked having any physical relationship with them. Then we asked the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, about them. And the verse (And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess) was then revealed, as a result of which we consider it lawful to have a physical relationship with them". Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn al-Harith informed us> "Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Ja"far> Abu Yahya> Sahl ibn "Uthman> "Abd al-Rahim> Ash"ath ibn Sawwar> "Uthman al-Batti> Abu"l-Khalil> Abu Sa"id who said: "When the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, captured the people of Awtas as prisoners of war we said: "O Prophet of Allah! How can we possibly have physical relationships with women whose lineage and husband we know very well?" And so this verse was revealed (And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess)". Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn Ibrahim al-Farisi informed us> Muhammad ibn "Isa ibn "Amrawayh> Ibrahim ibn Muhammad ibn Sufyan> Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj> "Ubayd Allah ibn "Umar al-Qawariri> Yazid ibn Zuray"> Sa"id ibn Abi "Arubah> Qatadah> Abu Salih Abu Khalil> Abu "Alqamah al-Hashimi> Abu Sa"id al-Khudri who reported that on the day of Hunayn the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, sent an army to Awtas. This army met the enemy in a battle, defeated them and captured many female prisoners from them. But some of the Companions of the Messenger, Allah bless him and give him peace, were uncomfortable about having physical relations with these prisoners because they had husbands who were idolaters, and so Allah, exalted is He, revealed about this (And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess)."

    http://quranx.com/tafsir/Wahidi/4.24

    "Verse 4.24 And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle]; this is what God has prescribed for you (kitāba is in the accusative because it is the verbal noun). Lawful for you (read passive wa-uhilla, or active wa-ahalla), beyond all that, that is, except what He has forbidden you of women, is that you seek, women, using your wealth, by way of a dowry or a price, in wedlock and not, fornicating, in illicitly. Such wives as you enjoy thereby, and have had sexual intercourse with, give them their wages, the dowries that you have assigned them, as an obligation; you are not at fault in agreeing together, you and they, after the obligation, is waived, decreased or increased. God is ever Knowing, of His creatures, Wise, in what He has ordained for them."
    http://quranx.com/tafsir/Jalal/4.24

    "(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.) The Ayah means, you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married,(except those whom your right hands possess) except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed "(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.''"

    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...=684&Itemid=59

    A 'divine' nad 'perfect' book of 'objective' morality which permits men to rape - oooops I mean 'have sex with' - married women whom they've captured in war. How disgustingly horrible, vile and sick.
    When you said 'likewise', that's not my opinion, that was used to justify the point that I was trying to make. The fact that morality is deemed by yourself as subjective, therefore means that I shouldn't care about your opinion about my morality and likewise.

    Isn't a coincidence that every single reference you made, every scholar that you linked to, are all from 1 sect of Islam. This is just getting stupid now, frankly I have seen this occur far too many times for it to be simply a 'coincidence'. In fact, there's not much point of my even replying if you cannot grasp the simple notion of sects =/= a religion.

    'How disgustingly horrible, vile and sick'.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Then you do agree that the Koran contains instructions to commit violence against non-believers? You are just arguing that those verses were restricted to individual situations?
    I am proclaiming that the Quran does contain verses that were aimed at the Prophet informing him what to do, at the time of war. I am also saying that, to know who a non-believer is, and when to implement such a verse cannot be done by us simply.
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    Well Muslims are not doing enough about ISIS, so many men are running away from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and North Africa etc whilst they leave the women such as the Kurds to fight. Instead of running away from your problems face them, Muslims always expect the west to fight their battles.
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    (Original post by mil88)
    I am proclaiming that the Quran does contain verses that were aimed at the Prophet informing him what to do, at the time of war. I am also saying that, to know who a non-believer is, and when to implement such a verse cannot be done by us simply.
    What, then, is your understanding of Koran verses 5:30-33?
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    (Original post by mil88)
    When you said 'likewise', that's not my opinion, that was used to justify the point that I was trying to make. The fact that morality is deemed by yourself as subjective, therefore means that I shouldn't care about your opinion about my morality and likewise.

    Isn't a coincidence that every single reference you made, every scholar that you linked to, are all from 1 sect of Islam. This is just getting stupid now, frankly I have seen this occur far too many times for it to be simply a 'coincidence'. In fact, there's not much point of my even replying if you cannot grasp the simple notion of sects =/= a religion.

    'How disgustingly horrible, vile and sick'.
    Entirely up to you. I realised a while ago that you're absolutely right, there is indeed no point you replying to my (or others') posts, because you only say exactly the same thing every time: 'oh but that's not what I and my sect of Islam believe'. Without of course ever actually stating what it is that you do believe. It's becoming pointless and boring, so unless you make an actual argument instead of just repeating this for the nth time, please don't bother replying to me again.

    You're absolutely right, of course! Citing the majority opinion of Sunni Islam scholars is every bit as 'disgustingly horrible, vile and sick' as allegedly 'divine' permission for Muslim men to rape enslaved married women. Well done you on keeping your sense of proportion intact.
 
 
 
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