Could first cousin marriage be a major part of understanding Islamic extremism? Watch

SaucissonSecCy
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This is slightly abstract, bear with me.
If we are going to the deeper roots of the conflict between an ideology and way of life with the west, could first cousin marriage have much to do with it? It is widespread, and has gone one since Muhammed.
There are clearly genetic physical disadvantages to this, including several defects and perhaps more unseen minor disadvantages, and much of the gene pool is surely afflicted. If we accept there is a strong link between body and mind, as implicit in the mind-body question, and 'mens sana in corpore sano'.....
Then this is perhaps logically consistent with the fundamentalist suffering some type of mental pathology.

Your thoughts?
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TercioOfParma
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So, you're saying that terrorism could potentially result from birth defects?

Sounds a little bit like when Bill Nye said terrorism was caused by global warming. I can see it being a very minor influence but it remains true that ideas are ultimately what cause action.
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username878267
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A big part of Muslim extremism is our economic system which simply leaves towns and communities behind as job opportunities are low and our government refuses to invest in public services and infrastructure.

As such people are attracted to extremes. It's why poor white males are lured to the far right and poor Muslim males are lured to Islamic extremism.
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generallee
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(Original post by Bornblue)
A big part of Muslim extremism is our economic system which simply leaves towns and communities behind as job opportunities are low and our government refuses to invest in public services and infrastructure.

As such people are attracted to extremes. It's why poor white males are lured to the far right and poor Muslim males are lured to Islamic extremism.
Actually you find a lot of educated and or rich Islamists.

Osama Bin Laden was the scion of a billionaire. His successor Al Zawahiri is a Doctor.

The 9/11 hijackers were mostly educated, rich men. A group of Doctors tried to blow up Glasgow airport.

Look around the ISoc at your university, you will find many intelligent, educated students from middle class backgrounds, with political and religious views that will make your hair curl.

Of course there are many poor foot soldiers also. What unites them is not poverty, but a disgust with and hatred of western society.
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username878267
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(Original post by generallee)
Actually you find a lot of educated and or rich Islamists.

Osama Bin Laden was the scion of a billionaire. His successor Al Zawahiri is a Doctor.

The 9/11 hijackers were mostly educated, rich men. A group of Doctors tried to blow up Glasgow airport.

Look around the ISoc at your university, you will find many intelligent, educated students from middle class backgrounds, with political and religious views that will make your hair curl.

Of course there are many poor foot soldiers also. What unites them is not poverty, but a disgust with and hatred of western society.
Of course, but a major attraction to extremist groups is low living standards.The far right and Islamic extremism are sides of the same coin.

If you are poor and white with no opportunities you are more likely to turn to far right nationalism. If you are poor and Muslim with no opportunities you are more likely to turn to Islamic extremism.

Generally as living standards increase, the attraction of all the extremes both religous and political is significantly lower.

Sure you have wealthy Islamic extremists, but what motivates young Muslims in this country to join them is often connected to poverty and low living standards.
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QE2
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(Original post by Bornblue)
A big part of Muslim extremism is our economic system which simply leaves towns and communities behind as job opportunities are low and our government refuses to invest in public services and infrastructure.

As such people are attracted to extremes. It's why poor white males are lured to the far right and poor Muslim males are lured to Islamic extremism.
So, we should expect to find similar levels of violent extremism from deprived Christian, Hindu, atheist, Sikh, etc, communities in Africa, South America, Far East, Europe, etc?

And we should also find an absence of educated people from developed countries involved in Islamist extremism?

Oh...
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1420787
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Didn't stop Charles Darwin. Or Albert Einstein. Or Kevin Bacon.

Not sure why I included that last one.
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username878267
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(Original post by QE2)
So, we should expect to find similar levels of violent extremism from deprived Christian, Hindu, atheist, Sikh, etc, communities in Africa, South America, Far East, Europe, etc?

And we should also find an absence of educated people from developed countries involved in Islamist extremism?

Oh...
Did I say it was the only reason? No I didn't.
If we want to address the problem we need to look at ALL reasons and not ignore ones we don't like. For example, how about the fact that the USA hugely supported Al Qadea initially and armed them? Or how about our middle eastern foreign policy which created a political vacuum and anti-west sentiment which paved the way for ISIS?

In the UK, the muslim community is one of the poorest communities. Up to 70% n relative poverty. One of the main attractions to all forms of extremism are economic conditions. The poorer you are and less opportunities you have, the more likely you are to turn to extremism. That's what has happened with the far right and it's what has happened with Muslim extremism.

It's not the only factor, but its a big one and we shouldn't be scared to debate all the factors which lead to a culture of extremism.

Look at the types of Brits who join Isis. They aren't the wealthy, well educated Muslims, they are the poor underclass Muslims with crappy lives who are looking for a sense of purpose.
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SaucissonSecCy
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(Original post by Bornblue)
A big part of Muslim extremism is our economic system which simply leaves towns and communities behind as job opportunities are low and our government refuses to invest in public services and infrastructure.

As such people are attracted to extremes. It's why poor white males are lured to the far right and poor Muslim males are lured to Islamic extremism.
So are you an apologist? So why are there no Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Rastafarian terrorists? And besides, a lot of them have been educated, chemists, doctors and the like. I can recall, it, I will go and find some examples if you want. And there is terror all over the middle east from people no poorer than their counterparts.
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HAnwar
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What are you on about.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Zayn is Bae
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(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
This is slightly abstract, bear with me.
If we are going to the deeper roots of the conflict between an ideology and way of life with the west, could first cousin marriage have much to do with it? It is widespread, and has gone one since Muhammed.
There are clearly genetic physical disadvantages to this, including several defects and perhaps more unseen minor disadvantages, and much of the gene pool is surely afflicted. If we accept there is a strong link between body and mind, as implicit in the mind-body question, and 'mens sana in corpore sano'.....
Then this is perhaps logically consistent with the fundamentalist suffering some type of mental pathology.

Your thoughts?
Except, as a med student, I can tell you there's not (there's little difference).
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Atlas Thugged
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(Original post by generallee)
Actually you find a lot of educated and or rich Islamists.

Osama Bin Laden was the scion of a billionaire. His successor Al Zawahiri is a Doctor.

The 9/11 hijackers were mostly educated, rich men. A group of Doctors tried to blow up Glasgow airport.

Look around the ISoc at your university, you will find many intelligent, educated students from middle class backgrounds, with political and religious views that will make your hair curl.

Of course there are many poor foot soldiers also. What unites them is not poverty, but a disgust with and hatred of western society.
What is also interesting to note is that even though very poor White men tend to make up the rank and file of the far-right, just like Osama Bin Laden was the son of a family of billionaires, often the people at the top of the far-right movements are from extremely wealthy backgrounds. Oswald Mosley for example was an aristocrat.
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SaucissonSecCy
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(Original post by HAnwar)
What are you on about.

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That generations of relative inbreeding could be the cause of genetic factors that lead to a relatively higher rate of pathological behaviour. We know that people are a complex mix of environment, genes, and then the results of those two feedback ias they react to experience, in a cyclical manner. We know that subtle, complex chemical(as in drug use) and/or genetic differences can affect the brain and behaviour. So it isn't really as odder theory as you might suspect.
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SaucissonSecCy
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(Original post by Zayn is Bae)
Except, as a med student, I can tell you there's not (there's little difference).
Well how is there the difference to create the defects then? And how do you know the difference between muslims who have interbred and those who haven't, if all or most of them have practiced it, and even ones who hadn't , were from a lineage that had? You can only compare then to non-muslims from different ethnic groupings.
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IYGB
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(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
This is slightly abstract, bear with me.
If we are going to the deeper roots of the conflict between an ideology and way of life with the west, could first cousin marriage have much to do with it? It is widespread, and has gone one since Muhammed.
There are clearly genetic physical disadvantages to this, including several defects and perhaps more unseen minor disadvantages, and much of the gene pool is surely afflicted. If we accept there is a strong link between body and mind, as implicit in the mind-body question, and 'mens sana in corpore sano'.....
Then this is perhaps logically consistent with the fundamentalist suffering some type of mental pathology.

Your thoughts?
Inbreeding cannot be good in my opinion
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generallee
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Of course, but a major attraction to extremist groups is low living standards.The far right and Islamic extremism are sides of the same coin.

If you are poor and white with no opportunities you are more likely to turn to far right nationalism. If you are poor and Muslim with no opportunities you are more likely to turn to Islamic extremism.

Generally as living standards increase, the attraction of all the extremes both religous and political is significantly lower.

Sure you have wealthy Islamic extremists, but what motivates young Muslims in this country to join them is often connected to poverty and low living standards.
The Muslim poor in the UK are many times better off than their cousins in the lands they, or their parents left.

Why do you think so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis want to come and live here?

The same is true for French Muslims. Compare the economies of Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco with that of France.

Grinding poverty may be driving the rise of Islamism in the Muslim world (although it is only a contributing factor even there, because the poor in countries with a different civilisation and culture aren't similarly revolutionary)
but it seems insufficient to explain it here. In comparative terms, the Muslims of western Europe are very lucky indeed.


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QE2
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Did I say it was the only reason? No I didn't.
If we want to address the problem we need to look at ALL reasons and not ignore ones we don't like. For example, how about the fact that the USA hugely supported Al Qadea initially and armed them? Or how about our middle eastern foreign policy which created a political vacuum and anti-west sentiment which paved the way for ISIS?

In the UK, the muslim community is one of the poorest communities. Up to 70% n relative poverty. One of the main attractions to all forms of extremism are economic conditions. The poorer you are and less opportunities you have, the more likely you are to turn to extremism. That's what has happened with the far right and it's what has happened with Muslim extremism.

It's not the only factor, but its a big one and we shouldn't be scared to debate all the factors which lead to a culture of extremism.

Look at the types of Brits who join Isis. They aren't the wealthy, well educated Muslims, they are the poor underclass Muslims with crappy lives who are looking for a sense of purpose.
Of course there are a variety of reasons, but you said "a big part of Muslim extremism" was "our economic system". This simply isn't supported by the evidence, and people are starting to get tired with these constant attempts at deflection away from what is demonstrably "a big part of Muslim extremism"...
Islamic ideology.

There are other communities that are far more economically and socially deprived than the Muslim communities of Tunisia, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, UK, France or Belgium; yet they do not produce such numbers of violent, ideologically motivated terrorists.
There is a thread that runs through every example, illiterate of graduate, impoverished or privileged, developed country or third world. That needs to be addressed as a major factor rather than dismissed as inconsequential.
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Zayn is Bae
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(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
Well how is there the difference to create the defects then? And how do you know the difference between muslims who have interbred and those who haven't, if all or most of them have practiced it, and even ones who hadn't , were from a lineage that had? You can only compare then to non-muslims from different ethnic groupings.
Because genetics can be applied not only practically, but theoretically as well. The bit in bold is contradicting what your OP outlined; going by this trail of thought there is no way to know whether it does cause defects or not. Anyway, what you're referring to (genetic defects in certain communities) generally occurs when multiple generations marry cousins, which yes I'd agree with. Not sure what link you've tried to make to terrorism though.
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BaconandSauce
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(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
This is slightly abstract, bear with me.
If we are going to the deeper roots of the conflict between an ideology and way of life with the west, could first cousin marriage have much to do with it? It is widespread, and has gone one since Muhammed.
There are clearly genetic physical disadvantages to this, including several defects and perhaps more unseen minor disadvantages, and much of the gene pool is surely afflicted. If we accept there is a strong link between body and mind, as implicit in the mind-body question, and 'mens sana in corpore sano'.....
Then this is perhaps logically consistent with the fundamentalist suffering some type of mental pathology.

Your thoughts?

An interesting hypothesis


we know it results in a lower IQ so perhaps this is why so many are firm believers and also gullible as a result

Also the impact this has on family and communities can't be a positive thing so again results in desperation so the promise of something better may also be a driving force to do desperate things
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Angry Bird
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wait till I become a mod..you just wait
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