coco_butter_xox
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Why should Women of colour or girls of colour be feminists? Seriously, why?

I'm a very proud black girl but I'll be honest, dislike feminism."feminism is the belief of equal rights between men and women"? No. Most feminists I know are white females. From what I've seen this feminism has only benefitted western society the most. They complain about things do not make sense or are completely unreasonable.
My God, I could almost puke if i hear "patriarchy" or "wage gap" from peers again!

Everyone says " third wave feminism is bad but first and second wave feminism is real feminism". As a British society it seems we all love to praise the suffragettes. We even had an whole ass assembly in my school where this WHITE WOMAN,mind, was drooling over them, telling us how we should be grateful for them.

I'll say it here. Feminism has NOT benefitted WOC or GOC. Its been obvious right from the get-go. Do we really think the suffragettes were thinking about WOC when they were chaining themselves onto gates, starving themselves and throwing themselves under horses? No! Only their fellow white peers. You can't even say its because there was no ethic people to begin with. This wasn't the bloody Tudor times, this was the 1800s to 1900s.Of course there were Asain, Arabic and Black people! The suffragettes in Britain were more discreet about this racism but in America their own suffragettes were obvious outright racists actively fighting for the oppression of WOC and the elevation of their own. Why should I belong to group that never wanted me? Or in today's age, never even acknowledged their messed up history? Why does the media even push the narrative if they generally are so progressive?

YOU CANT FIGHT FOR EQUAL RIGHTS AGAINST A MAN WHEN YOUR FEMALE PEER DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS YOU.

I facepalm when white women go on their whining spree when they're respected more in this society than I could ever dream!

Second wave feminism was better, but what really helped WOC wasn't even feminism but the Civil Rights Movement which is greatly associated with Martin Luther King Jr. If a black man wasn't able to vote how the hell would second wave feminism help a BLACK WOMAN. Though I'd admit King had some sexist views of a woman's role in society, the whole idea of a woman's role only being in the household. In fact the whole movement had some sexist narratives and ideas. It really goes to show that WOC can't win, how we weren't truly respected in either movements. Sad.

Current feminism today had just created trash over these years. Its been memed a lot and is an absolute joke.

I do believe in equal rights between man and woman, but like I said before I can't identify as a feminist. Feminism should turn towards a feminism that isn't selfish. I mean c'mon we have feminists here complaining about some dumb s**t (remember man spreading or mansplaing? Remember the bloody WAGE GAP? How about rape culture?). Meanwhile halfway across the world women can't even sit in a desk in school or/and are forced into marriage. Where rape culture ACTUALLY exists! These women,who I think are actually going through discrimination, generally can't identify with the movement either

Its crazy. Most of my friends expect me to be a feminist just because I'm a girl. When I explained to some of them why I'm not, they seemed shocked really. Probably because they're white and they think they'll look racist if they object, which of course is ridiculous, but still funny!

Really I'm here to just find counter arguments and to present my perspective. No one looks at race in these "progressive" movements which to me is a very important issue. My race has affected more of my experiences in life than my gender has ever done. This wouldn't apply to every WOC and GOC but the ones I know and spend time with, they seem to share the same experience.

I only am "picking" on Feminism as it seem to express that EVERYONE is welcome and is able to be a feminist. Lmao to hell with those LIES!!

We see this again in,for example, the Democratic Party in America. They portray themselves as progressive when not long back they were the active racists. And yet you barely hear about it.They try to hide it and have NEVER owned up to it.

I'm really sorry if this is long and has errors, this was just a spontaneous waking-up-using-my-phone-first-thing
kind of thing. But, this has just been on my mind for a while.

Also on a cheerier note, happy new year Lads and Laddies!! What a weird start to 2k19! God bless!
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Jasmyna
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I am so sorry this is your experience of feminism.

I identify as a feminist, but I certainly don't agree with the actions of every other feminist. I prefer to identify as a "person who supports equal rights for everyone, be that to do with sex, race, LGBTQ+ or anything else".

Even though I am a feminist myself, I don't think anyone should feel pressured into being a feminist.

Hope this helps.
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fallen_acorns
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feminism has had the most impact, within the communicates that have most pushed for it...

shocker.

Feminism has had less of an impact outside of the communities and countries where it was implimented...

bigger shocker.

Feminists in the early 1900's were racist... in a time when 99.99% of society were racist by todays standards...

even bigger shocker.

---

Feminism in general is a societal reaction to technological and industrial change.

Nothing more, nothing less. Its not some grand ideological battle or war.. its just a mechanism for keeping societal change in line with technological change. Why was there no feminism before the industrial revolution? Because their couldn't have been. It was an impossibility. Women needed to stay at home and have as many kids as possible, and men needed to fight for their life, or work in hard manual proffessions - or they died. Even if they did this, there was still a high chance of death.

Then technology changes.. agriculture and instustry go through revolutions.. the vast majority of the population are freed from manual labour work.. medicine comes on leaps and bounds and infant morality is cut to a fraction of what it was.. electrisity, refridgeration etc. all make a home a part-time rather than full time job.. the pill, condoms, birth control. etc.

Technological and industrial changes gave women options and possibilities that they had never had for the first time in thousands of years. They weren't opressed by a patriarchy before this.. they were living in the reality of a pre-industrial world that has limmited methods of survival. But as we can see daily around us - society is as slow to change as technology is quick. Feminism is the bridge function. Technology opens up new options but the older and more traditionally minded society fears them and rejects the possibilities.. feminism forces the change, and brings society in line with what is now technologically possible.

Why hasn't feminism taken off in other parts of the world? and in other racial communities? as much as it has in white western communities?

2 reasons (and neither are the lack of effort from white women)

1, Many parts of the world experianced their technological revolutions far after we did, and while they are moving in the same dirrections we are (towards equality) are generations behind us. Societal change is slow.. and takes generations to work. I see it living in China - they are liberalising every year, but it feels around 15-20 years behind where we are now. They are moving in the right dirrection though
2, Cultures that are less open to change. Whether due to religion or historic cultural differences, some cultures are less open to radical change then others, and as such adopt new principles like feminism at a slower rate. Islam would be the prime example of this - a culture that is changing, but the resistance against change is far far greater then in white western cultures. Post WW2 white western cultures were incredibly open to change, and desperatly seeking a new reality post colonialism etc.

---

You need to take a moment and try and gain a wider perspective of how societies grow and develop. Then you will hopefully become less resentful and angry, and see how most things that you blame on others are not malicious or someone elses fault at all, but just the reality of how our cultures have developed. Its not white womens fault that feminism has taken off slower in black communities - its just a reflection of the differences between white and black communities over the past century.
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meat cleaver
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modern feminism sums up what is wrong with all women who follow it
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by Jasmyna)
I am so sorry this is your experience of feminism.

I identify as a feminist, but I certainly don't agree with the actions of every other feminist. I prefer to identify as a "person who supports equal rights for everyone, be that to do with sex, race, LGBTQ+ or anything else".

Even though I am a feminist myself, I don't think anyone should feel pressured into being a feminist.

Hope this helps.
No need to apologise! What you identify with aligns more with my views. Not just between man and woman but EVERYONE too!I've probably haven't been around the been around the most inspiring feminists, eh?

Its sad how there are extremists out there that have ruined the image of feminism. I guess we see this in all forms of political and social groups. Thanks x
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hellohellothere
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https://youtu.be/OveYXM-WXrI
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londonmyst
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I'm female but not a feminist because I believe in justice for everyone and won't play favourites or identity politics.
Over the decades, a lot of the bad mannered aggression and extreme ideas of the women's liberation faction have permeated into mainstream feminism.
This also applies to radical feminists who don't even pretend to seek gender equality or mask their hostility towards men and a few radfems will openly acknowledge it.
I doubt if mainstream feminists ever will.

I have some friends that are feminists and my father is an intersectional feminist.
I'm not a fan of Emmeline Pankhurst and the suffragettes; most of their actions were unnecessarily militant, violently criminal and counterproductive.
I'm skeptical of some of their actions, particularly the religious aspect and malice regularly demonstrated by Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst.
I prefer Millicent Fawcett, the suffragists and Elizabeth Garrett Anderson.
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Quady
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(Original post by coco_butter_xox)
x
Joined in 2019, only two posts are to start this thread and to comment on it once.
Legit.
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by Quady)
Joined in 2019, only two posts are to start this thread and to comment on it once.
Legit.
Legit...?
I don't understand what you're trying to say? I joined TRS today to post this very issue.
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
?
1. I'll use more extreme scenarios here: The average German hated the Jewish population, that's because that's what 99.99% of the society thought too. ? Or, the average American thought black people weren't even better than the stray dogs, but oh wait! 99.99% of the population in the society thought so too. It was only normal!
We cant really blame them especially since our standards today are completely different to what? A couple of centuries ago?
Do you see what I'm trying to show you? Its still pretty s*** that they had those ideas.
At least with the Nazi and Slavery thing, we are TAUGHT these are s*** ideologies, we as societies acknowledge they are. Even if their own societies didn't. If these things were swept under the rug?
It would be bloody outrageous to those who suffered from it, the very least negatively affected by it. I think that its the same thing with feminism. Definitely not as extreme but its still there.

2.So societies grow and develop? Is our British society today the same as it was during the Tudors, even early 1800s? No! Our Society today is rich in diversity, its multi-cultural. Has been for a while too(whether we like it or not). So, as a society apparently grows and develops and generations become more liberalised, why has our beloved feminism not grown and developed for our WOC too? We have contributed to this society equally, despite our treatment. I completely understand that you cant compare the rights of a woman in rural Africa than of a woman born in Kent, but our society has not exclusively been white for a long time.

And only Britain brought that among themselves...

I've looked back at what i said, and i think i used "white woman" only once. I know not all white females are feminists. white feminist or actually a feminist.

Like I mentioned before, why is it today feminists promote the idea of inclusiveness when, looking back, simply isn't true? And even if you can say,once again, 'It's different "by today's standards"' why COMPLETELY FORGET ABOUT IT AS IF IT NEVER OCCURRED. I've emphasised this enough haha.

Finally what was the reason why a "white community" has "differences" compared to a "black community or any ethnic community in general (remember this isn't just black and white)? POC couldn't even vote in America until half a century ago for Christ sake! Britain still had many colonies until around this time too all across the world!
And that was due to a very selfish superior complex. Its not like we were sitting on our arses doing nothing and being nothing.
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by londonmyst)

I prefer Millicent Fawcett, the suffragists and Elizabeth Garrett Anderson.
Oh yes, the suffragists! They're the peaceful versions of the suffragettes, no? Wow i'd forgotten about them, they're like the Black Panthers of the Civil Rights Movement except they're exactly the opposite! Successful in ways but not as mainstream as their peers. In the suffragists case, its really unfortunate. Would've been better if they were the face of First Wave feminism, or at least what first comes to mind when you think about feminism.
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ZombieTheWolf
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I agree. I never hear anything about how women are still sex-slaves in parts of Africa, how some are forced to cover up in parts of the middle-east (yes forced many living in the west can choose this, but there are patrols telling women to cover up). There is also female genital mutilation that occurs in these countries, and women require less witnesses to be sentenced for something than a man.

It's always the west. (Hey, I am sure some famous feminists have spoken about this and maybe the stupidest have the loudest voice thats all).

Malala was an exception. She is a good feminist. She actually risked her life for girls in the middle east who can't get education unlike boys.
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Quady
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(Original post by coco_butter_xox)
Legit...?
I don't understand what you're trying to say? I joined TRS today to post this very issue.
Quite.
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Randyyy
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I'm a masculinist. I fight against women stealing 50% and child support
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Justvisited
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(Original post by coco_butter_xox)
Why should Women of colour or girls of colour be feminists? Seriously, why?
As a WOC/GOC, what do you think of how (white?) feminism-inspired mass abortion disproportionately culls unborn babies of colour, in the USA at any rate?
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by Randyyy)
I'm a masculinist. I fight against women stealing 50% and child support
I've heard of that before. I've also heard of "meninist" by some guys i know. Is it the same thing?
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katf
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(Original post by Randyyy)
I'm a masculinist. I fight against women stealing 50% and child support
Don't want to pay child support? Easy. Use a condom. You wanted the kids and later broke up with their mum? Why should she be landed with all the costs of raising them when you had an equal input in creating them? When you get married, the whole thing is that your assets become shared. In the event of divorce, they get split equitably, regardless of what each person put in. You don't want that to happen? Easy. Get a prenuptial agreement.

If you don't want to do any of those things, then you have no right to complain.
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by Justvisited)
As a WOC/GOC, what do you think of how (white?) feminism-inspired mass abortion disproportionately culls unborn babies of colour, in the USA at any rate?
Thank you for raising this issue!

I think its sickening to be fair. Though pregnancy rates amongst youth have decreased compared to past generations, the ratio of abortion rates in the black community compared to others is ridiculous.

Why? Poverty. Lack of Education...we get the jist

It's sounds almost like the whole Eugenics scandal that happened in America. Though they're not forcing sterilisation on you, they advertise it as if it's our own choice. The whole of idea of mass abortion in minority communities sounds like the strife for "genetic purification" in a society.

I can only see abortion as final medical procedure, if all else fails. In those cases a woman should have a right to demand this procedure

Like when I had appendicitis, they told me it was necessary i was to have surgery, to remove the appendix. But they still tended to me, gave me medication and antibiotics and educated me on the issue. I ended up not even needing the surgery!

Birth control, planned parenthood should be the same.Use a condom, communicate with your partner, pills whatever! Then if all else fails, it's more understanding.

But ANY WOMAN who uses abortion as a form of birth control? Or even advocates for that?

I think they're crazy.

Feminism has portrayed the sense of control in ourselves. My body, my rules? Sure! But only to an extent. When there is another LIFE that potentially or is involved you can't be as selfish, you must make the right decision. Prevention is mush better than Solution. Don't avoid the whole issue by dehumanising the child, fetus, zygote whatever. Don't pretend it's fine.

It's OK that it isn't fine. So long as we learn.

So, instead of feminism advocating and emphasising the "Solution" to minorities they should be advocating more for the "Prevention". I do see this, but it'll still take time. I think that'll be better for us.
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Alesha1991
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(Original post by Jasmyna)
I am so sorry this is your experience of feminism.

I identify as a feminist, but I certainly don't agree with the actions of every other feminist. I prefer to identify as a "person who supports equal rights for everyone, be that to do with sex, race, LGBTQ+ or anything else".

Even though I am a feminist myself, I don't think anyone should feel pressured into being a feminist.

Hope this helps.
This is basically my view as well. I class myself as a feminist but I can understand why some people might not be comfortable with using the 'feminist' label because of the association with some of the more vocal, radical types who have their own narrow definition of what feminism is about. I think as long as someone is committed to equality in terms of gender, LGBT rights etc I don't really care what label they identify with.
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coco_butter_xox
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(Original post by Quady)
Quite.
Bruh
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