Is liberal government just a new form of authoritarianism? Watch

AperfectBalance
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#41
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#41
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Since when do leftists think private business can do what the hell it wants?

(Original post by Davij038)
liberal limits to state power seem to just be another form of authoritarianism but unlike traditional forms take away clear accountability. For instance, in authoritarian regimes the state will arrest you for criticising government policy- in liberal regimes you will be banned from platforms or from making your own by third parties eg twitter and GoDaddy. The liberal state seems to have outsourced its coercive powers to third parties.


This is just capitalism surely?
No this is the majority argument from the left along with "But it is hate speech" so two things that are not arguments
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SHallowvale
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#42
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#42
(Original post by paul514)
Of course that is what I am saying 🙄
Sorry, I'm not trying to make assumptions! I just don't know what the point you were trying to make was....?

(Original post by Davij038)
No but it’s still a form of censorship in what is supposedly a ‘free’ country
"Free" is used relatively. The country is basically 'free' relative to, say, North Korea or the USSR. The kind of censorship which we have is trivial compared to that of 'proper', if you will, authoritarian countries.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#43
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#43
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
No this is the majority argument from the left along with "But it is hate speech" so two things that are not arguments
I can tell you, as a leftist, I don't support Facebook getting to decide what is allowed or not on the internet. I do not respect Facebook's private property rights.
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 1 week ago
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ChaoticButterfly
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#44
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#44
(Original post by paul514)
It’s to do with free speech not an economic system
Facebook is aloud to dictate what and what is not aloud on its platform. Speech is tied up within the economic system.
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paul514
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#45
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#45
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Facebook is aloud to dictate what and what is not aloud on its platform. Speech is tied up within the economic system.
Of course it is allowed no one is saying the law has been broken.

What people are saying is free speech should extend to these platforms as they have a monopoly on discourse on the internet.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#46
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#46
(Original post by paul514)
Of course it is allowed no one is saying the law has been broken.

What people are saying is free speech should extend to these platforms as they have a monopoly on discourse on the internet.
Which comes into conflict with the economic system.
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Davij038
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#47
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#47
(Original post by SHallowvale)
"Free" is used relatively. The country is basically 'free' relative to, say, North Korea or the USSR. The kind of censorship which we have is trivial compared to that of 'proper', if you will, authoritarian countries.
Sure, but:

A: the intent is the same

B: It isn’t a problem for you because your views coincide with the status quo. If you were a Chinese dissident liberal and I supported the CCP I could also make relativist claims and say that they could be worse.
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Davij038
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#48
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#48
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I can tell you, as a leftist, I don't support Facebook getting to decide what is allowed or not on the internet. I do not respect Facebook's private property rights.
That’s true and you’re one one of the few principled leftist s , but you also don’t care if these corporations oppress people with views you don’t like (and neither would I, I just don’t like the hypocrisy)
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Davij038
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#49
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#49
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Speech is tied up within the economic system.
Can you elaborate on that slightly please?

I hope you’re feeling better by the way 👍🏻
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SHallowvale
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Davij038)
Sure, but:

A: the intent is the same

B: It isn’t a problem for you because your views coincide with the status quo. If you were a Chinese dissident liberal and I supported the CCP I could also make relativist claims and say that they could be worse.
Of course the intent is the same but the scale and magnitude is nowhere near similar.

What things do you want to say which currently you're unable to say?
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ChaoticButterfly
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Davij038)
Can you elaborate on that slightly please?

I hope you’re feeling better by the way 👍🏻
Basically when you talk to someone using technology you are engaging with an economy that is a set of power relations. Each post you and me make on TSR is providing this site with what something to sell.

Speech (to mean anything) is communication between two or more poeple. What is the difference between communication via sound waves compared to communication via EM waves or electronic bits? Is it any different to block either? Communicating by word of mouth could be seen as a gift of nature, it's just something nature has given humans. Where as communicating using technology means engaging with the power relations that built said technology. As humans become more entwined with the technology they create, this will become more and more of a problem. Lets also not forget that capital has no qualms with privatising gifts of nature. If it became possible to police normal conversation you bet there would be people who want to do it.

It's not that I am against collective rule making as a principle, I am just very skepticle of the utility in leaving that rule making to be shaped by the forces of capitalism and the state.
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 1 week ago
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username4477046
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#52
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#52
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Of course the intent is the same but the scale and magnitude is nowhere near similar.

What things do you want to say which currently you're unable to say?
I can give you list of emails i keep being sent to restrict my thoughts on this forum from the Admins. And if you Admins are reading this. These guys want to know why Liberalism restricts freedom. Explain it to them
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username4477046
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#53
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#53
What country do we live in. This is not Great Britian. My Britian would not send me messages deleting my posts on a ****ing student forum.

The liberals have turned the UK into North Korea
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SHallowvale
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Glorious22)
What country do we live in. This is not Great Britian. My Britian would not send me messages deleting my posts on a ****ing student forum.

The liberals have turned the UK into North Korea
idk man I think this is why they're deleting your posts.
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username4477046
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#55
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#55
(Original post by SHallowvale)
idk man I think this is why they're deleting your posts.
""Free" is used relatively. The country is basically 'free' relative to, say, North Korea or the USSR. The kind of censorship which we have is trivial compared to that of 'proper', if you will, authoritarian countries."

If you guys want to fight for freedom. I support you. First we are going to change this Student Forum to stop deleting my stuff. Then we see if your dreams are any different than the USSR
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Krisis
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#56
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#56
Yeah, not being allowed to spew your nonsense in my property is not like being authoritarian. Medical researchers won't allow anyone to publish rubbish on their journals for obvious reasons. Similarly, twitter has decided to not allow bigots or racists in their platform and that has nothing to do with your imagined liberal ''authoritarian'' state outsourcing anything. It's their own private policy, it's not outsourced by the state.
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username4477046
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Krisis)
Yeah, not being allowed to spew your nonsense in my property is not like being authoritarian. Medical researchers won't allow anyone to publish rubbish on their journals for obvious reasons. Similarly, twitter has decided to not allow bigots or racists in their platform and that has nothing to do with your imagined liberal ''authoritarian'' state outsourcing anything. It's their own private policy, it's not outsourced by the state.
Then freedom is dead. Need to be a realist in life. World is a complex place filled with all types of people. And when start trying to control conversation this is where the authoritarian begins. Now social media is being controlled by lefties who act like dictators. Creating their own rules the rest have to follow and if don't conform, are banned or your information restricted
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Krisis
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Glorious22)
Then freedom is dead. Need to be a realist in life. World is a complex place filled with all types of people. And when start trying to control conversation this is where the authoritarian begins. Now social media is being controlled by lefties who act like dictators. Creating their own rules the rest have to follow and if don't conform, are banned or your information restricted
Plenty of right-wingers have billions. They can create their own media and if their platforms are better, people will flock to them to taste ''real'' freedom.

That you are being banned from a social media platform because you express racist or homophobic or bigoted views is not ''authoritarian''. It can be if the state mandates it - which, to my knowledge, it does not.
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username4477046
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Krisis)
Plenty of right-wingers have billions. They can create their own media and if their platforms are better, people will flock to them to taste ''real'' freedom.

That you are being banned from a social media platform because you express racist or homophobic or bigoted views is not ''authoritarian''. It can be if the state mandates it - which, to my knowledge, it does not.
i been to many. I agree with your views. Right is as bad as the left in that regard. If don't follow the status quo on media platforms, then in trouble, It be the same if Lefties here gave their thoughts and opinions on Right wing media, you would be restricted as well. This is unfourantly the world we live in. I just expected different from this forum, and sadly it is not the case. Just because people are liberal, it does not free them from intolerance
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Krisis
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#60
(Original post by Glorious22)
i been to many. I agree with your views. Right is as bad as the left in that regard. If don't follow the status quo on media platforms, then in trouble, It be the same if Lefties here gave their thoughts and opinions on Right wing media, you would be restricted as well. This is unfourantly the world we live in. I just expected different from this forum, and sadly it is not the case. Just because people are liberal, it does not free them from intolerance
I am not entirely clear on what you mean, I was trying to respond to the OP who thinks that the state outsources censorship to social media or Idk where else. If that were so, there would be a clear directive/law/something from the government to Twitter to ban, say, Gavin McInnes. As I said, from my knowledge, that has not happened. Twitter itself decided to ban him. I don't agree with their decision, I am in favour of allowing all trashbags like McInnes (and Davij) to express their ridiciulous views in public. But alas, Twitter has a different policy, they've hundreds of millions of users they have to think about apart from McInnes and Davij.
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