In Brexit news today...

I agree with much of your post.
Although I voted leave and tend to favour more the brexit positions of the DUP & ERG.
Too many english brexiteers have continued deluding themselves with dreams of a relatively soft brexit and fantasies of a positive mutually beneficial relationship with the EU after the end of the transition period. Within the commons, cabinet and adult population as a whole.

I mean that you can't vote for the UK to leave the EU but still expect the UK to receive benefits that they would receive if they had stayed in the EU, that's asking for both ways. Either we leave and not receive any remain benefits or we stay, the answer right now is to leave and not receive any remain benefits.

It isnt that simple. Being as so we have left now we dont have MEP's we can negotiate our own trade deals and have done so and the world hasn't blown up, the ports haven'tblocked up like the lib dems claimed that they would. So you can leave the EU in other ways other than a no deal exit, as has been proved

In any case, thats a strawman I'm not asking for all the benefits of remaining in the EU. I'm simply saying the people to blame if we end up with a no deal exit are the people who held all the power, this is the brexit Remainer parliamentarians have allowed to happen due to playing party politics with the national interest.

I am against Brexit but I really don't understand why Brexiteers are complaining about a no-deal and are blaming remainers for the situation, they need to get a grip (sorry for the harsh comment).

It's the playground whiner element of english brexiteers and inept conservative politicians that have adopted the 'it's not fair' mentality as their own personal mantra.
They won't grow up or act mature enough to face reality without throwing a temper tantrum then automatically blaming someone/everyone else for anything brexit related that they don't like.

Of course there's no denying the utter fiasco that David Cameron unwittingly created, should have forseen and ordered contingency plans to adequately address.
Nor Theresa May's utter incompetence and the shambolic mess that both left for others to sort out.
Each of them were lousy examples of Conservative Party leaders when it came to EU discussions, before and after the EU referendum.
Mrs. Thatcher's ghost would probably have done less damage to the UKs credibility with the EU and amongst the leaders of European nations.

I can understand that if you put democracy ahead of what's best for this country.

Cameron rigged what election?

I think that calling a referendum was a mistake.

I am against Brexit but I really don't understand why Brexiteers are complaining about a no-deal and are blaming remainers for the situation, they need to get a grip (sorry for the harsh comment).

Are they....?

Whats the counterfactual?

Civil war?

I dont think you have much to worry about there, in fact I'd go further and say I dont think ANY national poll has ever put leave in front of renain? However every vote when membership of the EU is the sole subject, leave win! I mean Farage has litterally made a career of it it's the only elections the bloke ever won!




Agreed, it's just fact. The same reason is why brexit abs the tories in working class areas over proform the polls. I mean in Trumps case what happens to a right leaning voter who wants lower taxes, dont want to pay to a Obama care mk2 and is genuinely struggling. This person has a little more money in their pocket under trump, they know the guys a idoit but why are they going to say, I'm going to vote trump. To get hords of abuse from some knuckle dragging pseudo intellectuals.....
They wont they just keep stumb and vote in silence. Then
we get the same shocked look certain groups faces.... oh why are the pools wrong ... wake up FFS



Never looked at it from that angle, it was certainly a spoon of sugar for me to the bitter taste of voting Tory, the moderate Tory leader if JRM was leader I'd of never voted Tory... never I simply dont know what I'd of done tbh.



I dont agree he was an utter shambles, just he was a terrible leader. The anti semitism nonsense is testament to this, he needed to get his arse off the fence and start making the difficult decisions you need to make as a leader.



Wow what's going off here only joking mate




This is where the agreements will stop the problem is the damage what you believe in, particularly the figure in your avatar. The damage she created by her harsh right wing politics and the decades of decay from middle right governments. The decay left from the destruction of proud working class towns like Sunderland feel alone, fir balance coupled with the new "liberal left" who are not labour people like me half of them dont vote labour at all but they seem to of convinced people like we speak of they are labour, and thus labour are the party of the middle class.... so the status quo to Sunderland isnt appealing.

Brexit is a journey, not a teleport. it's about freedom to do what you wish, not have everything desided for you, however unfortunately leave and remain has became almost religious like to some and I'm sorry to say mate, i think you are one of those people.

I agree with much of your post.
Although I voted leave and tend to favour more the brexit positions of the DUP & ERG.
Too many english brexiteers have continued deluding themselves with dreams of a relatively soft brexit and fantasies of a positive mutually beneficial relationship with the EU after the end of the transition period. Within the commons, cabinet and adult population as a whole.

Polling is selective?

Also @DiddyDec they have managed to "walk you through" on how "remainer parliamentarians" are to blame for a no-deal Brexit.

I am against Brexit but I really don't understand why Brexiteers are complaining about a no-deal and are blaming remainers for the situation, they need to get a grip (sorry for the harsh comment).

Your comment would have more weight had remoaners not being given the chance to impose a soft Brexit upon us via the horrid May deal, they chose to play politics instead. Your essentially complaining that you picked a fight and got beaten.

Which Brexiteers are complaining about No Deal. Polling suggests that more than 70% of 2019 Conservative voters would accept a No Deal.

Which Brexiteers are complaining about No Deal. Polling suggests that more than 70% of 2019 Conservative voters would accept a No Deal.

Your comment would have more weight had remoaners not being given the chance to impose a soft Brexit upon us via the horrid May deal, they chose to play politics instead. Your essentially complaining that you picked a fight and got beaten.

Tbh I don't see the point in having a soft brexit for me it's either hard Brexit or no Brexit.

but you're asking for the benefits via wanting a deal so that's having it both ways.

Hold on here, you’re on about selective polling but your conveniently ignoring the fact that in what I believe to be the same poll, overall, only 38% of total respondents believe leaving without a deal would be acceptable, whereas 44% oppose leaving without a deal. That’s if we’re looking at the same poll.

Your right, polling is quite obviously selective.

It's the playground whiner element of english brexiteers and inept conservative politicians that have adopted the 'it's not fair' mentality as their own personal mantra.

Lol we simply are not ready for no deal yet.


Its that whiner element of Human behaviour that's made the most extreme version possible mate.

Completely agree. We’re not ready for no deal, no was it the mandate given to Johnson by the general populous who voted in their droves in the GE for his deal.

Agreed, however that's not how parliamentary democracy works, is it? Which is exactly why remainer parliamentarians let the vast majority of the country down by only representing the extreme revokers and people voters, the vast majority of the country didn't want. If 2017-2019 remainer controlled parliament had matured and acted in the national interests, we wouldn't be in this situation.

Only one group responsible for allowing this to happen and one government making letting it happen, but .... at least we can hold them to account at the ballot box in 2024 for the actions they have actioned.

BTW hermit, I know we have our spats but I haven't got anything against you, and I dont dislike you, no political comments are personal from me - virtual handshake?

While I beg to differ about the remainer parliamentarians being the sole reason for the outcome that we find ourselves in I can agree to disagree.

However, I would like your opinion on one matter. While it was the remainer parliamentarians who voted against May’s deal it was also the extreme leave side as well. However, some of the same leavers that voted against may’s deal voted for Johnson’s, despite this deal being much worse. Do you not think the the leave camp, apart from baring responsibility for this whole disaster, as well as Cameron, shoulder some of the blame for why this has taken so long?

I predict a Labour majority in 2024 if Starmer can get his act together.

Yes, of course.