Let’s have a debate
Yk I was just curious about religions and aitheists. So the fact that Islam and Christianity are the world biggest religions and are like 75% similar does that prove enough that there is god. Like biggest religions followed in the world, one of them must be true right? Like think about it 2 most followed religions but both have some kind of similarity? Why is that? This also proves that other religions are fake which makes it more easier to choose from the big 2 as they similar. What y’all think?
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Original post by ToGodly
Yk I was just curious about religions and aitheists. So the fact that Islam and Christianity are the world biggest religions and are like 75% similar does that prove enough that there is god. Like biggest religions followed in the world, one of them must be true right? Like think about it 2 most followed religions but both have some kind of similarity? Why is that? This also proves that other religions are fake which makes it more easier to choose from the big 2 as they similar. What y’all think?
Christianity, Isam AND Judaism are ALL Abrihamic Faith's (based on same teachings, Bible, Toran and koran). Different Deity, same outlooks!
Hope this helps.
Regards.
Original post by Luddite231
Different Deity
is it, though?
Original post by Luddite231
Christianity, Isam AND Judaism are ALL Abrihamic Faith's (based on same teachings, Bible, Toran and koran). Different Deity, same outlooks!
Hope this helps.
Regards.
Hope this helps.
Regards.
But the thing is Quran mentions that Allah sent 4 books. One of them being bible and other toran etc. and both Quran (Islam) and bible (Christianity) have so much following, and they technically same thing. They believe in same teachings. How can 2 big religions can be wrong with such following. There must be some truth to it in one of them?
Original post by ToGodly
But the thing is Quran mentions that Allah sent 4 books. One of them being bible and other toran etc. and both Quran (Islam) and bible (Christianity) have so much following, and they technically same thing. They believe in same teachings. How can 2 big religions can be wrong with such following. There must be some truth to it in one of them?
The reason they are the biggest religions is because they were the most violent and spent a lot more efforts in conversion than other religions do. The crusades for Christianity and the Islamic Conquest for Islam.
The reason judaism is so small isn't because its untrue/significantly different than Islam or Christianity, its because they mostly have no interest in converting people. The same is true of Buddhism.
Original post by ToGodly
Yk I was just curious about religions and aitheists.
Debate is usually forbidden in the Faith & Spirituality section - but as you have specifically asked for one I will respond (the whole thread will probably be moved to the Religion section)
So the fact that Islam and Christianity are the world biggest religions and are like 75% similar does that prove enough that there is god. Like biggest religions followed in the world, one of them must be true right? Like think about it 2 most followed religions but both have some kind of similarity? Why is that?
Not at all. The similarity is because Christianity evolved from Judaism and Islam is a combination of the two (along with elements of Zoroastrianism and Arab Paganism). On examination, they are all clearly products of their time and place. They reflect the culture they came from, not some universal, other-worldly knowledge or truth. The fact that a fair bit of it is demonstrable nonsense that sounds like it was written by archaic men from the Middle East should be a big clue that it was written by archaic men from the Middle East.
This also proves that other religions are fake
How so?
The principle of confirmation bias means that every religion believes it is true, and can convince itself that all the others are false.
To quote Stephen F Roberts...
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by ToGodly
But the thing is Quran mentions that Allah sent 4 books. One of them being bible and other toran etc.
It's hardly remarkable that the author of the Quran knew about other religions in the region. It is also unremarkable that they didn't know about any religions further afield, religions older and practiced by more people than Judaism or Christianity.
and both Quran (Islam) and bible (Christianity) have so much following, and they technically same thing.
This is called the "argument ad populum" fallacy. Basically, just because a lot of people agree with something doesn't make it right.
They believe in same teachings.
Not really. There are fundamental and irreconcilable differences
How can 2 big religions can be wrong with such following.
Well, given that they are mutually incompatible, they can't both be right - but they can both be wrong.
There must be some truth to it in one of them?
The "truth" is that until fairly recently, humanity needed gods to explain the confusing world around us. The religions that sprang from this need became powerful tools for power and control. The desire for more power and control (and the need to spread the word, of course) led to expansionism and empire and conversion through coercion.
It's no secret that the present day countries that were conquered by Christian empires are generally Christian today, and the ones subdued by Islamic empires are usually Muslim countries today. No mystery or magic there.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by ToGodly
Yk I was just curious about religions and aitheists. So the fact that Islam and Christianity are the world biggest religions and are like 75% similar does that prove enough that there is god. Like biggest religions followed in the world, one of them must be true right? Like think about it 2 most followed religions but both have some kind of similarity? Why is that? This also proves that other religions are fake which makes it more easier to choose from the big 2 as they similar. What y’all think?
None of that proves those religions are true, just that they were spread through conquest and conversion...
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
None of that proves those religions are true, just that they were spread through conquest and conversion...
But people are not blind at this current day and age. Why is Islam the fastest growing religion?? Also you gonna say all these miracles mentioned in Quran or bible are fake? A man from future came and saw all that. YOU Cannot deny the facts in Quran. “It’s the hearts that are blind and not the eyes”. I can give you so many miracles mentioned in Quran that science discovered wayyyy later.
Original post by ToGodly
But people are not blind at this current day and age. Why is Islam the fastest growing religion?? Also you gonna say all these miracles mentioned in Quran or bible are fake? A man from future came and saw all that. YOU Cannot deny the facts in Quran. “It’s the hearts that are blind and not the eyes”. I can give you so many miracles mentioned in Quran that science discovered wayyyy later.
Islam is ''growing fast'' not due to conversions but because Muslimahs pop out loads of babies (more than the average Christian) and so those babies just get indoctrinated into Islam. It's not a coincidence that most religious people follow the same faith as their parents, community and country. Nah, Islam is fake and I'm sure all the science has been debunked or was already known by people at the time. And my opinion on miracles is different from the mainstream anyway.
Original post by ToGodly
Among these miracles found in the Quran are "everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells
Stop capping bro, the Quran doesn't mention lasers and hydrogen fuel cells, you're just going to pull up a really vague verse than can be interpreted to mean anything. And it doesn't mention relativity or quantum mechanics either lmfao.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
Islam is ''growing fast'' not due to conversions but because Muslimahs pop out loads of babies (more than the average Christian) and so those babies just get indoctrinated into Islam. It's not a coincidence that most religious people follow the same faith as their parents, community and country. Nah, Islam is fake and I'm sure all the science has been debunked or was already known by people at the time. And my opinion on miracles is different from the mainstream anyway.
Lool you just sure? It’s not about debunked. It’s about Quran knowing stuff 1400 years ago which science is discovering NOW. Again NOW. It would have not been possible to know 1400 years ago. This literally proves that Quran is real. Again it’s the hearts are blinds and not eyes. If Quran had said that there will be a nuclear war in 2025. And it actually happens you would have still not believed. Because of your ignorance. Similar there are so many things Quran has predicted that is happening NOW.
Original post by ToGodly
Lool you just sure? It’s not about debunked. It’s about Quran knowing stuff 1400 years ago which science is discovering NOW. Again NOW. It would have not been possible to know 1400 years ago. This literally proves that Quran is real. Again it’s the hearts are blinds and not eyes. If Quran had said that there will be a nuclear war in 2025. And it actually happens you would have still not believed. Because of your ignorance. Similar there are so many things Quran has predicted that is happening NOW.
I don't think it says stuff that's only being discovered now though, that's cap. No, if Quran made specific claim and it happened that would be a different story, but it doesn't say any of that. Lol, you make this thread asking for a debate and now you're just showing your true colours and that you're not willing to have a debate at all, you're just here to preach what you were indoctrinated into and have no intention of considering other viewpoints.
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
I don't think it says stuff that's only being discovered now though, that's cap. No, if Quran made specific claim and it happened that would be a different story, but it doesn't say any of that. Lol, you make this thread asking for a debate and now you're just showing your true colours and that you're not willing to have a debate at all, you're just here to preach what you were indoctrinated into and have no intention of considering other viewpoints.
I’m debating by giving you miracles not just in Quran but also bible and how there are some truth to it. I’m opposite you can debunk that miracles. And this is a debate on miracles. Instead of metal coins,
Paper money was first used in China in the 11th century. Jiaozi was a form of promissory banknote which appeared around the 11th century in the Sichuan capital of Chengdu, China. Numismatists regard it as the first paper money in history, a development of the Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). However the Quran says that paper money was known and used long before the Chinese:
Quran 18:19
Even so, We awakened them, so that they may ask one another. A speaker among them said, "How long have you stayed?" They said, "We have stayed a day, or part of a day." They said, "Your Lord knows best how long you have stayed." "Send one of you to the city, with this paper money of yours, and let him see which food is most suitable, and let him bring you some provision thereof. And let him be gentle, and let no one become aware of you." How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known about paper money?
Original post by ToGodly
I’m debating by giving you miracles not just in Quran but also bible and how there are some truth to it. I’m opposite you can debunk that miracles. And this is a debate on miracles. Instead of metal coins,
Paper money was first used in China in the 11th century. Jiaozi was a form of promissory banknote which appeared around the 11th century in the Sichuan capital of Chengdu, China. Numismatists regard it as the first paper money in history, a development of the Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). However the Quran says that paper money was known and used long before the Chinese:
Quran 18:19
Even so, We awakened them, so that they may ask one another. A speaker among them said, "How long have you stayed?" They said, "We have stayed a day, or part of a day." They said, "Your Lord knows best how long you have stayed." "Send one of you to the city, with this paper money of yours, and let him see which food is most suitable, and let him bring you some provision thereof. And let him be gentle, and let no one become aware of you." How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known about paper money?
Paper money was first used in China in the 11th century. Jiaozi was a form of promissory banknote which appeared around the 11th century in the Sichuan capital of Chengdu, China. Numismatists regard it as the first paper money in history, a development of the Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). However the Quran says that paper money was known and used long before the Chinese:
Quran 18:19
Even so, We awakened them, so that they may ask one another. A speaker among them said, "How long have you stayed?" They said, "We have stayed a day, or part of a day." They said, "Your Lord knows best how long you have stayed." "Send one of you to the city, with this paper money of yours, and let him see which food is most suitable, and let him bring you some provision thereof. And let him be gentle, and let no one become aware of you." How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known about paper money?
Bro, how is that a miracle? If that verse is describing paper money then all it's saying is that paper money was already in existence and was being used by someone, it's literally just describing someone using paper money lol. Also bro, I'm finding different translations online that mention silver coins instead of paper money: https://quran.com/18?startingVerse=19 and this one just mentions money and not paper: https://www.clearquran.com/018.html
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by ToGodly
But people are not blind at this current day and age.
People generally believe what they are taught to believe as children. Childhood indoctrination is very hard to break. As Aristotle said, "Give me the boy until he is seven and I will show you the man". Why do you think so few people convert between religions, compared to those who stay in the one they were born into?
Why is Islam the fastest growing religion??
Because of high birth rates. Muslim women have more children than women from any other group.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/04/05/the-changing-global-religious-landscape/
Also you gonna say all these miracles mentioned in Quran or bible are fake?
You mean stories of magic?
When someone tells you a story about an extraordinary event that would require the laws of nature being suspended, your first response should be "evidence please", not, "ok, I believe you".
A man from future came and saw all that.
What "man from the future"?
YOU Cannot deny the facts in Quran.
What "facts" are you referring to?
I can give you so many miracles mentioned in Quran that science discovered wayyyy later.
No you can't.
All you can give me are spurious claims that fall apart on close examination.
I am very familiar with the so-called "Quran scientific miracles". Pick your best example and we can examine it.
Original post by ToGodly
Among these miracles found in the Quran are "everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells
lol
No they aren't.
It is just apologists mankind stuff up, dishonestly misrepresenting what the Quran actually says, then drawing wild and unsupportable connections to completely unrelated issues. And because it seems to support your existing belief, you just accept it without question. It's called "confirmation bias".
As I said, pick your best example and we can have a look at it.
Original post by ToGodly
I’m debating by giving you miracles not just in Quran but also bible and how there are some truth to it. I’m opposite you can debunk that miracles. And this is a debate on miracles. Instead of metal coins,
Paper money was first used in China in the 11th century. Jiaozi was a form of promissory banknote which appeared around the 11th century in the Sichuan capital of Chengdu, China. Numismatists regard it as the first paper money in history, a development of the Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). However the Quran says that paper money was known and used long before the Chinese:
Quran 18:19
Even so, We awakened them, so that they may ask one another. A speaker among them said, "How long have you stayed?" They said, "We have stayed a day, or part of a day." They said, "Your Lord knows best how long you have stayed." "Send one of you to the city, with this paper money of yours, and let him see which food is most suitable, and let him bring you some provision thereof. And let him be gentle, and let no one become aware of you."
Paper money was first used in China in the 11th century. Jiaozi was a form of promissory banknote which appeared around the 11th century in the Sichuan capital of Chengdu, China. Numismatists regard it as the first paper money in history, a development of the Chinese Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE). However the Quran says that paper money was known and used long before the Chinese:
Quran 18:19
Even so, We awakened them, so that they may ask one another. A speaker among them said, "How long have you stayed?" They said, "We have stayed a day, or part of a day." They said, "Your Lord knows best how long you have stayed." "Send one of you to the city, with this paper money of yours, and let him see which food is most suitable, and let him bring you some provision thereof. And let him be gentle, and let no one become aware of you."
This is what I was saying about the dishonest misrepresentation of the Quran.
The Quran does not mention "paper money". It says "money" or "silver coin".
Ibn Kathir's tafsir on that verse says says "They had brought with them some Dirhams (silver coins) from their homes".
How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known about paper money?
The verse is telling the story of a long past event, so there couldn't have been any paper money available for the protagonists to use. More evidence that the claim is nonsense.
BTW, Muhammad was surrounded by companions with all sorts of knowledge and abilities. One of them (Al-Harith ibn Kalada) was a physician who had studied at Gundesphapur, where Galen and Aristotle was taught. The "miraculous" (but incomplete and inaccurate) description of human embryology in the Quran is similar to that described by Galen and Aristotle centuries earlier.
Also, given Muhammad's privileged upbringing and his successful career running Mecca's biggest merchant business, it would be surprising if he was illiterate.
The "Quran scientific miracles" narrative is a con, designed to appeal to those with little or no knowledge of science or history, or desire to fact-check any of the claims. One famous Islamic speaker (Hamza Tzortsis) has called it "an intellectual embarrassment".
(edited 1 year ago)
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