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Can't take further maths

I am currently in year 12 studying maths, physics and computer science a level. I don't like computer science a level and I am dropping it in June (I have to wait until then). I really want to do either a maths degree or a maths and economics degree. I want to go to a top university in the UK and I know that I will be definitely be applying to maths at the university of Manchester. I wanted to take further maths or economics a level to replace computer science but unfortunately I have been told no. The head of maths said that you really can't do it in one year so I asked if I tried to self study the further maths AS level from June until September and if I was doing well enough then I could join the A2 but if I wasn't doing well then I would just join statistics and do it in one year. However, she said that we would be setting you up to fail. I have 97777666 at GCSE (7 in maths) and I want to apply to universities like Imperial, UCL, Warwick and these all require further maths. I am definitely dropping computer science and I have been offered statistics a level instead. If I am unable to take further maths should I take statistics or should I self study further maths a level. Should I ask her again and speak to her more to at least let me try. Do i just need to accept the fact that I can't apply to those universities? Only problem with self studying and entering as a private candidate is the fees which I can't pay for. I am on bursary so would I get any discount or some sort and if I sit the exam in college but as a private candidate are there any fees? I am aiming for at least a good A in my end of year maths exam so shall I wait and see if I can get an A* then ask again about further maths? If I do further maths I can start from June but unfortunately with statistics I would have to sit 8 lessons a week instead of the usual 4 for one subject from September.
(edited 11 months ago)
Hi, I have done both maths and computer science at university and a big statistics component in masters (in applied maths) and also I went to manchester uni so I really resonate with your goals :-) , here are my thoughts on this. Firstly it is a pity that you want to drop computer science since it is such a key skill for the future, even more so now with the explosion in AI. That said, if you want to do maths or economics at uni, you are right to want to do further maths - further maths is quite a bit harder than maths, so you would be taking on a lot but at uni the maths gets harder, this is why the universities you mentioned would want you to do the a level in further maths ahead of the degree course. The A levels really are a good opportunity to build that strong foundation in Maths. A statistics A level in my opinion is not the same and anyhow, once you have done A level further maths, you can add statistics modules at uni or at postgrad. In my opinion it is easier to add on the statistics after a good foundation in maths, and to a large extent this is also true for computer science, though it really helps to have good software engineering foundations at uni. Now to your point about your school - I checked on edexcel fees and as I understand it for a levels in June 2024 they are not due till feb/march 2024 ? so you have time to do some summer job type thing and earn them? I dont know on bursaries - you'd have to check. A bit more of concern to me is 2 points: (a) the 7 at GCSE, as you are so passionate about maths, you would have hoped for a higher at GCSE, because the further maths needs good foundations, still you can make this up by putting the time in now and if you really want to go with maths at uni then no time like now to build strong foundations, (b) the 2nd point you want to check is: do the courses you want to apply to rely on predictions from your school ? will they offer if you explain in your personal statement that you are doing the further maths privately - there would need to be a strong explanation for this, so its well worth trying to persuade your school - or otherwise you might consider taking a year off before university and applying with exam results in hand rather than with predictions, some universities have their own entrance exams and you need to check the dates of these, oxford for example is around october 2023 for 2024 entry, so a year ahead, others could be later ( I think it could be around january or later for imperial?), but you need to check this too because you have a lot of ground to cover. That said, my view is that it is worth postponing by a year if you really want to read maths at uni. A year might seem a long time now but in the big picture of life you are really not losing any thing and it is always worth studying what you are passionate about and it is also worth getting into a top university. I am new to this site so not sure how to dm, but happy to talk further on dm.
(edited 11 months ago)
im in a similar situation its too late for me to do further
Original post by Safwan321
I am currently in year 12 studying maths, physics and computer science a level. I don't like computer science a level and I am dropping it in June (I have to wait until then). I really want to do either a maths degree or a maths and economics degree. I want to go to a top university in the UK and I know that I will be definitely be applying to maths at the university of Manchester. I wanted to take further maths or economics a level to replace computer science but unfortunately I have been told no. The head of maths said that you really can't do it in one year so I asked if I tried to self study the further maths AS level from June until September and if I was doing well enough then I could join the A2 but if I wasn't doing well then I would just join statistics and do it in one year. However, she said that we would be setting you up to fail. I have 97777666 at GCSE (7 in maths) and I want to apply to universities like Imperial, UCL, Warwick and these all require further maths. I am definitely dropping computer science and I have been offered statistics a level instead. If I am unable to take further maths should I take statistics or should I self study further maths a level. Should I ask her again and speak to her more to at least let me try. Do i just need to accept the fact that I can't apply to those universities? Only problem with self studying and entering as a private candidate is the fees which I can't pay for. I am on bursary so would I get any discount or some sort and if I sit the exam in college but as a private candidate are there any fees? I am aiming for at least a good A in my end of year maths exam so shall I wait and see if I can get an A* then ask again about further maths? If I do further maths I can start from June but unfortunately with statistics I would have to sit 8 lessons a week instead of the usual 4 for one subject from September.

There is one backup option that I am aware of for maths degrees- some unis allow you to take an AS in further maths, provided you take AEA maths and achieve an A in the AS and a distinction in the AEA (UCL being the best example that I remember).

I’d talk to the head of the maths department again and see what they think of this option.
Reply 4
Watch Bicen Maths on YouTube! He's a life saver
Reply 5
Original post by fluentinmaths
Hi, I have done both maths and computer science at university and a big statistics component in masters (in applied maths) and also I went to manchester uni so I really resonate with your goals :-) , here are my thoughts on this. Firstly it is a pity that you want to drop computer science since it is such a key skill for the future, even more so now with the explosion in AI. That said, if you want to do maths or economics at uni, you are right to want to do further maths - further maths is quite a bit harder than maths, so you would be taking on a lot but at uni the maths gets harder, this is why the universities you mentioned would want you to do the a level in further maths ahead of the degree course. The A levels really are a good opportunity to build that strong foundation in Maths. A statistics A level in my opinion is not the same and anyhow, once you have done A level further maths, you can add statistics modules at uni or at postgrad. In my opinion it is easier to add on the statistics after a good foundation in maths, and to a large extent this is also true for computer science, though it really helps to have good software engineering foundations at uni. Now to your point about your school - I checked on edexcel fees and as I understand it for a levels in June 2024 they are not due till feb/march 2024 ? so you have time to do some summer job type thing and earn them? I dont know on bursaries - you'd have to check. A bit more of concern to me is 2 points: (a) the 7 at GCSE, as you are so passionate about maths, you would have hoped for a higher at GCSE, because the further maths needs good foundations, still you can make this up by putting the time in now and if you really want to go with maths at uni then no time like now to build strong foundations, (b) the 2nd point you want to check is: do the courses you want to apply to rely on predictions from your school ? will they offer if you explain in your personal statement that you are doing the further maths privately - there would need to be a strong explanation for this, so its well worth trying to persuade your school - or otherwise you might consider taking a year off before university and applying with exam results in hand rather than with predictions, some universities have their own entrance exams and you need to check the dates of these, oxford for example is around october 2023 for 2024 entry, so a year ahead, others could be later ( I think it could be around january or later for imperial?), but you need to check this too because you have a lot of ground to cover. That said, my view is that it is worth postponing by a year if you really want to read maths at uni. A year might seem a long time now but in the big picture of life you are really not losing any thing and it is always worth studying what you are passionate about and it is also worth getting into a top university. I am new to this site so not sure how to dm, but happy to talk further on dm.


Thank you very much. I was hoping to get a higher grade at gcse but unfortunately I had some extenuating circumstances. I do think I should’ve done better though. I should’ve picked further maths at the start of the year but I didn’t and I regret it. I may start to self teach and see how it goes myself even if my teacher said that we are setting you up to fail and if it goes well and my college still doesn’t let me take it then I’ll sit the exam privately by saving up money from a summer job. Also, with further maths I can start learning from the start of June because I can stop doing computer science then. But with statistics a level I have to wait will September to start. Can my college in any way stop me from self studying further maths a level? Did you take further maths and did a lot of people on your course take it?
(edited 11 months ago)
I am guessing here but I don't think the school can stop you and I don't see why they would want to. I took further maths at O level and A level, at A level my subjects were Maths and Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry. I read computer science and maths joint honours in my first year, and then switched to computer science because, not having done computer science at A level there was a lot of ground to cover, and I figured I would cover it by spending year 2 and 3 at uni fully on it. So then when I went to work and needed more stats for my job, I did the MSc in Applied Mathematics at Imperial to cover the ground on the Maths and stats :-) We had many of these joint honours combinations on our uni course - joint honours with accounting etc - and I don't really know what other people did, but a strong guess that for the single honours people, the mathematicians would have needed and had further maths. also it was so long back I am sure admission criteria have changed and it would not be the same, and also the job market and postgrad options have changed since I did them.
My sense is that you should start looking at the further maths syllabus and textbook now and take it from there. Maybe even consider offering both stats (through school) and further maths (privately), if the school doesnt let you switch out stats for further maths - in the end they are both useful, really a question of what you want to do for work afterwards.

So far I like the edexcel texts (attached front page) because they are step by step and easy to follow, they have a pdf format also, maybe someone will lend you theirs, to look at. I would start with algebra and calculus since these are foundations for many things, then trig because a lot of trig is manipulating equations and differentiating/integrating the trigs ratios.
Recently I set up a website with some quizzes - it is a work in progress so just a few on there at the moment - but the current set is 'easy' questions for the end of year 12, the purpose is to check the foundations and identify any gaps before moving on to harder questions and further maths work. My website is called fluentinmaths :-) feel free to try the year 12 quizzes - algebra, calculus, trig in that order - then I could even give you feedback (there is some feedback automated anyhow) on what you should learn next, and over time I will be building this out so its a better learning tool.
(edited 11 months ago)
Hi there,

I am sorry to hear you are not enjoying your current course. Its good that you have a goal in mind and want to work hard to achieve it. Since you want to do a mathematics degree (or involve maths) then it makes sense that you want to do further maths. Further maths is quite a step up from regular maths lots of people make the mistake of assuming they are an extension of each other, but further maths is its own degree. However the way most courses are structured is that they teach you maths in one year and further maths in the next so it is possible and even regular for people to learn in one year, the only thing is that you would be trying to finish your regular maths a-level and learn an entire new a-level at the same time so would be very loaded with work. You’ll have to consider how much time you can dedicate to your studies and whether this is possible to achieve this isn’t to discourage you if you think you’re capable, just something to think about for the next year. It may also be good to look at some university requirements, I don’t believe a lot of universities ask for further maths, just maths itself so you’ll still be able to get into a top university with statistics, especially if you choose to go through the economics route. Good luck with your decision and I hope it all goes well for you!

Hope this helped,
- Sophie (uni of Bath)
Reply 8
I have been able to contact a mathematics school which is part of my college but in a separate building with different teachers. I’m hoping to be able to study maths, further maths and physics there but unfortunately they do have entry requirements of an 8 in maths (I got a 7) and 77 in combined science (I got 66). I have mentioned my extenuating circumstances so hopefully they take that into account. Only problem is they do different exam boards for maths and further maths. We do Edexcel at my college but the maths school uses OCR MEI B. I really want to go to this maths school but I’m not sure as I’d also be joining whilst in year 13 and I don’t think they’ll allow this as they seem highly selective and limited. Hopefully I can get good predicted grades and then see if they’ll let me in. I’ve gone through the ocr Mei B specification and it seems similar for maths but different for further maths and the applied modules are very different. Does anyone know of any OCR MEI B revision resources? It would be a bit annoying as I won’t get to do Edexcel further maths as I already have the textbooks and there’s many resources but on the other hand they are really good teachers and I could do further maths.

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