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tenancy
hello!
wanted to know how hard it actually is to get a tenancy!
what kind of qualifications are realistic to be considerd and does it really matter which law school you attend as long as the qualification you recive is good enough?
-cassie
wanted to know how hard it actually is to get a tenancy!
what kind of qualifications are realistic to be considerd and does it really matter which law school you attend as long as the qualification you recive is good enough?
-cassie
Scroll to see replies
Muncrun I wouldn't say it was "extremely difficult" to get a tenancy...but it is extremely difficult to get a TOP tenancy. Although yes, you will usually need a 2.1 // 1ii, (unless there is some reason for you obtaining a 2.2, which was beyond your control).
For the top Chancery and Commercial chambers you would really need a 1st or at the very minimum a high 2.1 along with mooting/debating experience and ideally some prizes / scholarship.
For example, look at the CV of this new recruit at Lord Grabiner QC's chambers:
"EDUCATION
BA History, Downing College, Cambridge (1st class)
Post Graduate Diploma in Law, City University (Commendation)
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law (Outstanding. Top of year).
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Baron Dr Ver Heyden de Lancey Prize (Middle Temple, 2003)
Du Cann Memorial Prize for Advocacy (3 Raymond Buildings, 2002)
Scarman Scholarship (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Sibel Dedazde Pro Bono Award (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Queen Mother Scholarship(Middle Temple, 2001)
Queen Mother Scholarship (Middle Temple, 2000)
Piley Scholarship (Downing College, 1999)
Buchanan Scholarship (Cambridge University, 1997)
R.J. White Prize for History (Downing College, 1997)
Charles de Gaulle Scholarship (Charles de Gaulle Trust, 1995)"
Lol..
On the other hand this guy got into the same chambers, (although he has the lowest credentials of any member):
"EDUCATION
LLB, King’s College, London
BCL, St. John’s College, Oxford
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Kennedy Scholarship (Lincoln's Inn 2003)
Sunley Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 2000)
Hardwicke Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 1999)"
To get a place at some of the "less competetive" chambers, you really need a 2.1 and good advocacy skills. At the top ones, you need to do something special.
For the top Chancery and Commercial chambers you would really need a 1st or at the very minimum a high 2.1 along with mooting/debating experience and ideally some prizes / scholarship.
For example, look at the CV of this new recruit at Lord Grabiner QC's chambers:
"EDUCATION
BA History, Downing College, Cambridge (1st class)
Post Graduate Diploma in Law, City University (Commendation)
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law (Outstanding. Top of year).
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Baron Dr Ver Heyden de Lancey Prize (Middle Temple, 2003)
Du Cann Memorial Prize for Advocacy (3 Raymond Buildings, 2002)
Scarman Scholarship (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Sibel Dedazde Pro Bono Award (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Queen Mother Scholarship(Middle Temple, 2001)
Queen Mother Scholarship (Middle Temple, 2000)
Piley Scholarship (Downing College, 1999)
Buchanan Scholarship (Cambridge University, 1997)
R.J. White Prize for History (Downing College, 1997)
Charles de Gaulle Scholarship (Charles de Gaulle Trust, 1995)"
Lol..
On the other hand this guy got into the same chambers, (although he has the lowest credentials of any member):
"EDUCATION
LLB, King’s College, London
BCL, St. John’s College, Oxford
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Kennedy Scholarship (Lincoln's Inn 2003)
Sunley Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 2000)
Hardwicke Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 1999)"
To get a place at some of the "less competetive" chambers, you really need a 2.1 and good advocacy skills. At the top ones, you need to do something special.
well.......
i got pretty decent GCSE grades, 5As, 1B, 4Cs, but became very complacent during my Alevels and ended up with 1B and 2Cs, therefore not letting me get in to a great law school. im currently in my year out and have applied to derby, sheffield hallam, notts trent, and de montfort which have all gave me unconditional offers.
if i worked my ass off and got a 1st, would i have a shot of getting a tenancy, or would i not even be considerd.
i want to know as it costs so much money to do it all and if i did it but in the end didnt get a tenancy, i would feel it to be such a waste and money.
-cassie
i got pretty decent GCSE grades, 5As, 1B, 4Cs, but became very complacent during my Alevels and ended up with 1B and 2Cs, therefore not letting me get in to a great law school. im currently in my year out and have applied to derby, sheffield hallam, notts trent, and de montfort which have all gave me unconditional offers.
if i worked my ass off and got a 1st, would i have a shot of getting a tenancy, or would i not even be considerd.
i want to know as it costs so much money to do it all and if i did it but in the end didnt get a tenancy, i would feel it to be such a waste and money.
-cassie
Hughski
Muncrun I wouldn't say it was "extremely difficult" to get a tenancy...but it is extremely difficult to get a TOP tenancy. Although yes, you will usually need a 2.1 // 1ii, (unless there is some reason for you obtaining a 2.2, which was beyond your control).
For the top Chancery and Commercial chambers you would really need a 1st or at the very minimum a high 2.1 along with mooting/debating experience and ideally some prizes / scholarship.
For example, look at the CV of this new recruit at Lord Grabiner QC's chambers:
"EDUCATION
BA History, Downing College, Cambridge (1st class)
Post Graduate Diploma in Law, City University (Commendation)
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law (Outstanding. Top of year).
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Baron Dr Ver Heyden de Lancey Prize (Middle Temple, 2003)
Du Cann Memorial Prize for Advocacy (3 Raymond Buildings, 2002)
Scarman Scholarship (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Sibel Dedazde Pro Bono Award (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Queen Mother Scholarship(Middle Temple, 2001)
Queen Mother Scholarship (Middle Temple, 2000)
Piley Scholarship (Downing College, 1999)
Buchanan Scholarship (Cambridge University, 1997)
R.J. White Prize for History (Downing College, 1997)
Charles de Gaulle Scholarship (Charles de Gaulle Trust, 1995)"
Lol..
On the other hand this guy got into the same chambers, (although he has the lowest credentials of any member):
"EDUCATION
LLB, King’s College, London
BCL, St. John’s College, Oxford
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Kennedy Scholarship (Lincoln's Inn 2003)
Sunley Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 2000)
Hardwicke Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 1999)"
To get a place at some of the "less competetive" chambers, you really need a 2.1 and good advocacy skills. At the top ones, you need to do something special.
For the top Chancery and Commercial chambers you would really need a 1st or at the very minimum a high 2.1 along with mooting/debating experience and ideally some prizes / scholarship.
For example, look at the CV of this new recruit at Lord Grabiner QC's chambers:
"EDUCATION
BA History, Downing College, Cambridge (1st class)
Post Graduate Diploma in Law, City University (Commendation)
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law (Outstanding. Top of year).
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Baron Dr Ver Heyden de Lancey Prize (Middle Temple, 2003)
Du Cann Memorial Prize for Advocacy (3 Raymond Buildings, 2002)
Scarman Scholarship (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Sibel Dedazde Pro Bono Award (Inns of Court School of Law, 2002)
Queen Mother Scholarship(Middle Temple, 2001)
Queen Mother Scholarship (Middle Temple, 2000)
Piley Scholarship (Downing College, 1999)
Buchanan Scholarship (Cambridge University, 1997)
R.J. White Prize for History (Downing College, 1997)
Charles de Gaulle Scholarship (Charles de Gaulle Trust, 1995)"
Lol..
On the other hand this guy got into the same chambers, (although he has the lowest credentials of any member):
"EDUCATION
LLB, King’s College, London
BCL, St. John’s College, Oxford
Bar Vocational Course, Inns of Court School of Law
OTHER ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENTS
Kennedy Scholarship (Lincoln's Inn 2003)
Sunley Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 2000)
Hardwicke Scholarship (Lincoln’s Inn 1999)"
To get a place at some of the "less competetive" chambers, you really need a 2.1 and good advocacy skills. At the top ones, you need to do something special.
No, it is "exteremely difficult" regardless. The person you cited with the 'lowest credentials' succesfully got onto the BCL - which is incredibly difficult - and secured three scholarships - which is also incredibly difficult. To achieve both of these you have to be extremely intelligent and very talented in the skill of advocacy.
Getting onto the BCL is more about intellect than advocacy though. Although yes, his three scholarships are very nice! And I did say "extremely competitive" for the top chambers, which it is. For some of the lesser known chambers, especially in Common or Criminal Law, it is not quite as difficult.
Bear in mind this is a top chambers and is generally regarded as being one of the very best in commercial law; it is also headed by one of the best commercial lawyers in the UK. Not only that, but it has the largest award, (pretty much), of any chambers.
Clearly to get into this one it's extremely competitive. This guy must be amazing. Saying he had the "lowest credentials" was ironic really. The only thing which makes them any "lower" is that he hasn't come first in the year, come top of the BVC or won any international mooting/debating competition.
If the benchmark was the first one we'd all be screwed ^_^ hehe
.
Bear in mind this is a top chambers and is generally regarded as being one of the very best in commercial law; it is also headed by one of the best commercial lawyers in the UK. Not only that, but it has the largest award, (pretty much), of any chambers.
Clearly to get into this one it's extremely competitive. This guy must be amazing. Saying he had the "lowest credentials" was ironic really. The only thing which makes them any "lower" is that he hasn't come first in the year, come top of the BVC or won any international mooting/debating competition.
If the benchmark was the first one we'd all be screwed ^_^ hehe
.Hughski
Getting onto the BCL is more about intellect than advocacy though. Although yes, his three scholarships are very nice! And I did say "extremely competitive" for the top chambers, which it is. For some of the lesser known chambers, especially in Common or Criminal Law, it is not quite as difficult.
Bear in mind this is a top chambers and is generally regarded as being one of the very best in commercial law; it is also headed by one of the best commercial lawyers in the UK. Not only that, but it has the largest award, (pretty much), of any chambers.
Clearly to get into this one it's extremely competitive. This guy must be amazing. Saying he had the "lowest credentials" was ironic really. The only thing which makes them any "lower" is that he hasn't come first in the year, come top of the BVC or won any international mooting/debating competition.
If the benchmark was the first one we'd all be screwed ^_^ hehe.
Bear in mind this is a top chambers and is generally regarded as being one of the very best in commercial law; it is also headed by one of the best commercial lawyers in the UK. Not only that, but it has the largest award, (pretty much), of any chambers.
Clearly to get into this one it's extremely competitive. This guy must be amazing. Saying he had the "lowest credentials" was ironic really. The only thing which makes them any "lower" is that he hasn't come first in the year, come top of the BVC or won any international mooting/debating competition.
If the benchmark was the first one we'd all be screwed ^_^ hehe
.I get what you're saying now
Do you reckon Criminal and Common Law chambers are less competitive? I always thought criminal was one of the most competitive (even though you don't earn as much as in commercial sets). That could be good news as I've always fancied criminal or public.
However, I generally try not to look at the biographies of barristers as reading the endless lists of "Oxon" and "Cantab" only depresses me
I think so, but top sets in any of the areas of law are still very competitive. I'm sure you can do it though: Kings usually gets a lot of people into tenancy and browsing the top chambers I see quite a few graduates from there. (Admittedly, the number of London LLB doesn't compare with the endless list of Oxon / Cantab; it is rather depressing I agree!!). But apart from them, London seems to be the next best option. My take is that if you can get onto the BCL / Cambridge LLM you will be able to get into a top chamber, (provided your advocacy is good). And even if you don't, you can still do it!
Criminal and Public are less competitive but at the top end it's fairly similar, (I still think chancery/commercial is slightly harder, but it is marginal).
Bear in mind that if you can't get into one of the "magic circle" chambers (eg. Blackstone for Criminal), you can always try to get into one of the "working to become 'magic circle'" chambers and work your way up. It probably wouldn't hold you back for very long if you proved yourself to be a good advocate.
I really have my heart set on advocacy but, if all else fails, I will probably go into a larger firm and then convert later. Just have to see how my exams go and stuff!! Good luck though man!! Hopefully we'll both make it and when we're like 73 on the House of Lords we can be talking about how competitive it was to get in 55 years ago...
"Back in my day....you had to do *blah blah blah*, ahhhh...the law has changed so much since my time..." Hehe.
Criminal and Public are less competitive but at the top end it's fairly similar, (I still think chancery/commercial is slightly harder, but it is marginal).
Bear in mind that if you can't get into one of the "magic circle" chambers (eg. Blackstone for Criminal), you can always try to get into one of the "working to become 'magic circle'" chambers and work your way up. It probably wouldn't hold you back for very long if you proved yourself to be a good advocate.
I really have my heart set on advocacy but, if all else fails, I will probably go into a larger firm and then convert later. Just have to see how my exams go and stuff!! Good luck though man!! Hopefully we'll both make it and when we're like 73 on the House of Lords we can be talking about how competitive it was to get in 55 years ago...
"Back in my day....you had to do *blah blah blah*, ahhhh...the law has changed so much since my time..." Hehe.
Dreama
There's a hell of a lot of (Lond) too... 
Yeah true. I keep myself warm at night in the knowledge that I'm at the university with the third highest number of students in pupillage (guess who the top two are...).
I shall get a tenancy, I shall get a tenancy, I shall get a tenancy, I shall go to the ball, I shall get a tenancy...
cassie86
well.......
i got pretty decent GCSE grades, 5As, 1B, 4Cs, but became very complacent during my Alevels and ended up with 1B and 2Cs, therefore not letting me get in to a great law school. im currently in my year out and have applied to derby, sheffield hallam, notts trent, and de montfort which have all gave me unconditional offers.
if i worked my ass off and got a 1st, would i have a shot of getting a tenancy, or would i not even be considerd.
i want to know as it costs so much money to do it all and if i did it but in the end didnt get a tenancy, i would feel it to be such a waste and money.
-cassie
i got pretty decent GCSE grades, 5As, 1B, 4Cs, but became very complacent during my Alevels and ended up with 1B and 2Cs, therefore not letting me get in to a great law school. im currently in my year out and have applied to derby, sheffield hallam, notts trent, and de montfort which have all gave me unconditional offers.
if i worked my ass off and got a 1st, would i have a shot of getting a tenancy, or would i not even be considerd.
i want to know as it costs so much money to do it all and if i did it but in the end didnt get a tenancy, i would feel it to be such a waste and money.
-cassie
They will barely even look at your GCSEs if you get a 1st. If you work hard and ideally get some mooting experience there's no reason why you won't be able to get a tenancy at all. Even with a 2.1 you will be able to; this might make it slightly more difficult, but bear in mind people are trying with 2.2s...
So yeah, you definitely can. But you need to make sure you do well in your exams first. If you do, then you will definitely have a shot at it. Otherwise you will need to prove yourself with a good LLM after your degree...then you have a second chance. If you screw that up then you'll probably have to get some work experience first, and then switch over. You can carry on trying and if you want it enough you will make it. Just don't give up
! There are hundreds of routes to getting there; the fact you've lost a "top" university place won't stop you.Hughski
I think so, but top sets in any of the areas of law are still very competitive. I'm sure you can do it though: Kings usually gets a lot of people into tenancy and browsing the top chambers I see quite a few graduates from there. (Admittedly, the number of London LLB doesn't compare with the endless list of Oxon / Cantab; it is rather depressing I agree!!). But apart from them, London seems to be the next best option. My take is that if you can get onto the BCL / Cambridge LLM you will be able to get into a top chamber, (provided your advocacy is good). And even if you don't, you can still do it!
Criminal and Public are less competitive but at the top end it's fairly similar, (I still think chancery/commercial is slightly harder, but it is marginal).
Bear in mind that if you can't get into one of the "magic circle" chambers (eg. Blackstone for Criminal), you can always try to get into one of the "working to become 'magic circle'" chambers and work your way up. It probably wouldn't hold you back for very long if you proved yourself to be a good advocate.
I really have my heart set on advocacy but, if all else fails, I will probably go into a larger firm and then convert later. Just have to see how my exams go and stuff!! Good luck though man!! Hopefully we'll both make it and when we're like 73 on the House of Lords we can be talking about how competitive it was to get in 55 years ago...
"Back in my day....you had to do *blah blah blah*, ahhhh...the law has changed so much since my time..." Hehe.
Criminal and Public are less competitive but at the top end it's fairly similar, (I still think chancery/commercial is slightly harder, but it is marginal).
Bear in mind that if you can't get into one of the "magic circle" chambers (eg. Blackstone for Criminal), you can always try to get into one of the "working to become 'magic circle'" chambers and work your way up. It probably wouldn't hold you back for very long if you proved yourself to be a good advocate.
I really have my heart set on advocacy but, if all else fails, I will probably go into a larger firm and then convert later. Just have to see how my exams go and stuff!! Good luck though man!! Hopefully we'll both make it and when we're like 73 on the House of Lords we can be talking about how competitive it was to get in 55 years ago...
"Back in my day....you had to do *blah blah blah*, ahhhh...the law has changed so much since my time..." Hehe.
To be honest, I have no great desire to be at "the top of my profession" or anything. I'm more fussed about doing something I enjoy for a living.
kingslaw
Yeah true. I keep myself warm at night in the knowledge that I'm at the university with the third highest number of students in pupillage (guess who the top two are...).
I shall get a tenancy, I shall get a tenancy, I shall get a tenancy, I shall go to the ball, I shall get a tenancy...
I shall get a tenancy, I shall get a tenancy, I shall get a tenancy, I shall go to the ball, I shall get a tenancy...
Lol...and i go to sleep at night with the knowledge that my university wasn't even on that list *sighs*!!!!
But I think that is partially down to the international nature of the LSE and the business-orientated people who seem to go there: they want to work for giant corporations, because it turns them on. Probably sexually.
kingslaw
To be honest, I have no great desire to be at "the top of my profession" or anything. I'm more fussed about doing something I enjoy for a living.
Same, which is one of the reasons why working for a chambers appeals so much. They're usually quite small and inclusive. I just think it'd be nice to know everyone, or pretty much everyone, that you work with. And going to get a pint after a hard day's work would be cool!!
The chambers also tend to be situated in nicer places than the large firms. And I prefer pubs with a bit of character heheh.
Although getting to the top does appeal, it would be very difficult to achieve, so I will just have to see what happens I guess
.Hughski
Lol...and i go to sleep at night with the knowledge that my university wasn't even on that list *sighs*!!!!
But I think that is partially down to the international nature of the LSE and the business-orientated people who seem to go there: they want to work for giant corporations, because it turns them on. Probably sexually.
But I think that is partially down to the international nature of the LSE and the business-orientated people who seem to go there: they want to work for giant corporations, because it turns them on. Probably sexually.
I think Kings' position on the list was primarily down to the large size of it's Law School - almost twice as big as UCL's, and I assume bigger than LSE's (though I don't actually know).
And yes, different Law Schools have different drives I think. I think UCL and LSE are more LPC/corporate law driven. I get the impression that King's and Bristol seem to get a high number of students onto the BVC and into tenancies. I don't know how common this is, but we have our own Bar Society here. I didn't notice that at other universities I looked at.
kingslaw
I think Kings' position on the list was primarily down to the large size of it's Law School - almost twice as big as UCL's, and I assume bigger than LSE's (though I don't actually know).
And yes, different Law Schools have different drives I think. I think UCL and LSE are more LPC/corporate law driven. I get the impression that King's and Bristol seem to get a high number of students onto the BVC and into tenancies. I don't know how common this is, but we have our own Bar Society here. I didn't notice that at other universities I looked at.
And yes, different Law Schools have different drives I think. I think UCL and LSE are more LPC/corporate law driven. I get the impression that King's and Bristol seem to get a high number of students onto the BVC and into tenancies. I don't know how common this is, but we have our own Bar Society here. I didn't notice that at other universities I looked at.
Yeah we don't have a Bar Society here. The different size of the law schools probably does have a reasonable effect but it's probably more down to the nature of the students.
There are so many international students here as well, they probably aren't as confident about their fluency in English, (although some of them clearly are very good; not trying to stereotype). LSE does get quite a few people into the Bar in other countries though.
Can't tell the exact reasons, but it's not going to stop me from trying anyway
.
well.......
i got pretty decent GCSE grades, 5As, 1B, 4Cs, but became very complacent during my Alevels and ended up with 1B and 2Cs, therefore not letting me get in to a great law school. im currently in my year out and have applied to derby, sheffield hallam, notts trent, and de montfort which have all gave me unconditional offers.
if i worked my ass off and got a 1st, would i have a shot of getting a tenancy, or would i not even be considerd.
i want to know as it costs so much money to do it all and if i did it but in the end didnt get a tenancy, i would feel it to be such a waste and money.
-cassie
i got pretty decent GCSE grades, 5As, 1B, 4Cs, but became very complacent during my Alevels and ended up with 1B and 2Cs, therefore not letting me get in to a great law school. im currently in my year out and have applied to derby, sheffield hallam, notts trent, and de montfort which have all gave me unconditional offers.
if i worked my ass off and got a 1st, would i have a shot of getting a tenancy, or would i not even be considerd.
i want to know as it costs so much money to do it all and if i did it but in the end didnt get a tenancy, i would feel it to be such a waste and money.
-cassie
To be honest cassie, and I am in no way being nasty - simply a realist, I don't think you have much of a chance with thoses grades and those universities. A 1st is more than just "working your ass off" - it is about pure intellect - something than can't really be cultivated. I would concentrate on getting some good work experience under your belt, then going down the solicitor route.
Hey...
Does any body have a copy of the BVC list you are refering too?
Thanks
Jason
Does any body have a copy of the BVC list you are refering too?
Thanks
Jason
THE PROPHETOR!
Hey...
Does any body have a copy of the BVC list you are refering too?
Thanks
Jason
Does any body have a copy of the BVC list you are refering too?
Thanks
Jason
Here you go Jason!
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t64637.html
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