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Original post by Midlander
The SNP have openly accused the unionist parties of not having Scottish interests at heart. You can therefore conclude that they think they are the only party that would be elected.


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They don't have Scotland's interests at heart. Scotland is a socialist country; England isn't. You haven't told me why Scotland shouldn't be independent.
Original post by Choo.choo
It really annoys me that Scots falsely link independence to Salmond and the SNP. What about voting out the SNP in an independent Scotland? Scottish representation is about 8 or 9%, as there are 650 MP's in Westminster, but only 59 Scottish. So Scottish MP's are in a tiny minority.


Lol, Personally I find how the unionists are intent on shutting down the debate infuriating. Trivial discussion on economic minutae, mobile phone tariffs, passports, border controls, EU veto nonsense, tuition fees, currency, nato, trident... too wee too poor....... Demonise personalities and reduce it to namecalling in order to turn the electorate off. They know they cant persuade the "dont knows" so the tactic is to keep them as "dont knows" . Otherwise we would have had a "White Paper" alternative from Better Together.

Do you want to be part of Cameron's Big Society, increasingly xenophobic, increasingly anti-europe and increasingly idealogical in it's pursuit of the Elitist social structure. Or do you want to be part of something different. This vote isnt about what is good for us right now, its about what kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Choo.choo
And you believe them? Gordon Brown did not let Scotland have any more devolved powers when he was PM. I just don't believe what Westminster parties say any more. It is all lies to get us to stay in the union. It is time for Scotland to stand on its own two feet.


Lol, whilst using the £ and having no say on its interest rates? Yeh, that is really standing on its own 2 feet :rolleyes:
Original post by Midlander
The UK government has not been declared bankrupt and has not been in danger of defaulting like the USA has-ergo it is not bankrupt.

There is also far more to our economy than oil. Far more.

Yes debt works like this....

Suppose you were in debt for £1 ....and your economy was worth £1.5
It would seem bad.

But if that £1 was not payable for 10 years and by then your economy was worth £30 then that £1 is easy to finance.

If the pay back date is reasonably long in the future, and your growth rate is positive debt should be self financing. Were it goes horribly off the rails is if you have to pay back immediately (like Spain had to) and you have little or no growth.
Original post by cowsforsale
Lol, Personally I find how the unionists are intent on shutting down the debate. Trivial discussion on mobile phone tariffs, economic minutae, passports, border controls, EU and veto nonsense, tuition fees.. Demonise personalities and reduce it to namecalling in order to turn the electorate off. They know they cant persuade the "dont knows" so the tactic is to keep them as "dont knows" otherwise we would have had a "White Paper" alternative from Better Together.

Do you want to be part of Cameron's Big Society, increasingly xenophobix, increasingly anti-europe and increasingly idealogical in it's pursuit of the Elitist social structure. Or do you want to be part of something different. This vote isnt about what is good for us right now, its about what kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren.


Yes, those evil torries being anti-EU and pro democracy! How dare they! An independent Scotland can be rules by Brussels if you would like and not even have a boarder, why not let everyone in the world in, from USA, the EU, Africa, Asia, let them all in!

Meanwhile the rest of the UK can survive fine with comparable social cohesion and low crime rates, enoy!
Original post by cowsforsale
Lol, Personally I find how the unionists are intent on shutting down the debate. Trivial discussion on mobile phone tariffs, economic minutae, passports, border controls, EU and veto nonsense, tuition fees, currency, nato, trident... too wee too poor....... Demonise personalities and reduce it to namecalling in order to turn the electorate off. They know they cant persuade the "dont knows" so the tactic is to keep them as "dont knows" otherwise we would have had a "White Paper" alternative from Better Together.

Do you want to be part of Cameron's Big Society, increasingly xenophobix, increasingly anti-europe and increasingly idealogical in it's pursuit of the Elitist social structure. Or do you want to be part of something different. This vote isnt about what is good for us right now, its about what kind of society we want for our children and grandchildren.


I know. I am voting yes. I hate the union. Good riddance to the union when Scots vote to be independent.
Original post by Joeman560
It's bad. Nothing good will come of it, especially for Scotland. Also I dislike Alex Salmond.

Salmonds campaign is based on nothing but lies and fudged figures, he hates England so much he would destroy his own country to be away from it. He is openly racist and gets away with it and even encourages racism in his supporters.


Well, that's a load of bull. I'm undecided how I'm going to vote, the argument that may make me vote for independence is 'Why should a Tory government that wasn't voted in by Scots, rule Scotland?'. I'm not a fan of Salmond either, he's a sleekit, smug politician. I don't think he's racist though and most SNP voters are not racist either.


Nicola question: "Give me three specific examples of welfare cuts that Ed Miliband will reverse?"

Anas answer?: No answer

Nicola question: "Will you reverse the £250m cut to disabled benefits?"

Anas answer?: No answer.

Nicola question: "What's Labour's policy on the savings credit for low income pensioners?"

Anas answer: No answer.

Nicola: "The fact is - you won't reverse ANY of these Tory welfare cuts."

Nicola question: "What universal benefits will be protected by Labour?"

Anas answer: No answer.

Nicola question: "Free prescriptions - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer.

Nicola question: "Tuition fees - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola question: "Free personal care - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola Question: "I'll give you another chance- free prescriptions, Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola: "Free tuition - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer, but effectively a no.

Nicola: "Free tuition - Yes or No?"

Anas answer: No answer

Nicola: "I don't understand how you came here tonight defending the right of the Tories to impose welfare cuts on Scotland ... You haven't answered a single question you've been asked."

Well, Anas Sarwar earlier in the programme had rather rashly - and unilaterally - committed UK Labour to reversing the Bedroom Tax, something his leader, Ed Miliband, has so far refused to do, and something that Johann Lamont, Scottish 'leader' has also avoided to date. Doubtless he's had his arse kicked on that by London Labour and the hapless, beleaguered Ed Miliband.

lol..
Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen
Lol, whilst using the £ and having no say on its interest rates? Yeh, that is really standing on its own 2 feet :rolleyes:


I actually don't agree with the SNP on that. But I accept their arguments for a currency union. The only thing I don't like is being tied to the Bank of England. But you can't have it both ways.
Original post by Choo.choo
And you believe them? Gordon Brown did not let Scotland have any more devolved powers when he was PM. I just don't believe what Westminster parties say any more. It is all lies to get us to stay in the union. It is time for Scotland to stand on its own two feet.


:confused: I don't really care what a Yes vote believers or not lol (agree to disagree)The fact you're voting yes says you don't care about what the UK government say...
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 5250
Original post by Choo.choo
Those countries don't spend money they don't have. They avoided the financial crisis.


ffs, I found the debt levels you said that don't exist.

Can you now find their public surplus'? If not I'll have to find out their deficits and its a bore finding info out for you.
Original post by Choo.choo
I actually don't agree with the SNP on that. But I accept their arguments for a currency union. The only thing I don't like is being tied to the Bank of England. But you can't have it both ways.



Then the country would not be standing on its own feet, if you want independence do it properly, otherwise its like a child moving away from th house of mum and dad, saying how brave and independent the yare and then calling home every weekend asking for money.
Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen
Yes, those evil torries being anti-EU and pro democracy! How dare they! An independent Scotland can be rules by Brussels if you would like and not even have a boarder, why not let everyone in the world in, from USA, the EU, Africa, Asia, let them all in!

Meanwhile the rest of the UK can survive fine with comparable social cohesion and low crime rates, enoy!


Disagree with that. An independent Scotland will enjoy that; not the rest of the UK post-independence.
Original post by Quady
ffs, I found the debt levels you said that don't exist.

Can you now find their public surplus'? If not I'll have to find out their deficits and its a bore finding info out for you.


They survived the financial crisis. End of.
Original post by Choo.choo
Disagree with that. An independent Scotland will enjoy that; not the rest of the UK post-independence.


You think Scotland would be like that with a population of 50 million ? If 20 million or more Africans and Asians move there?
What do you mean by "survive", who didn't survive? No country has vanished of the face of the Earth.
"Scotland contributes a net £3.6 billion a year to the UK government finances. Scotland’s fiscal deficit is an extremely respectable 2.6%, compared to 6% for the UK as a whole, or 6.3% for the rest of the UK excluding Scotland.

But even that is not the full story. These figures are based on a geographical allocation of oil revenue but that geographical allocation is based on New Labour’s incredible gerrymandered 1999 England/Scotland maritime border which gives eight major Scottish oil fields to England, including two North of Dundee.

On a realistic maritime boundary, which an independent Scotland would undoubtedly win from the International Court of Justice, Scotland would actually have a budget surplus of £1.9 billion. Hurray, boys and girls, we are in the black! Remember I was Head of the FCO Maritime Section and I personally was involved in negotiating most of the UK’s maritime boundaries, including with Ireland, France, Denmark and Belgium.)"

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/03/propaganda-against-scotland/
Original post by cowsforsale
Do you find reading difficult?

Which lies? Cite your sources.

Let's talk about others lying shall we, while we're at it..

Recently, David Cameron was caught out last week when he falsely claimed in a Conservative Party political broadcast that the coalition was "paying down Britain's debts"


He claimed that legal advice had been sought on EU entry-this was proven incorrect. He has claimed that Scotland contributes more per head than it receives-this is also outright wrong.

I didn't vote for David Cameron. However, saying that he lies as well as Salmond doesn't detract from the latter's own faux pas.


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Original post by Choo.choo
I should add that the UK Government don't care that the oil money is being spent; just as long as the Scots don't get their hands on it, and they will lose this when Scots get independence. No more oil tax receipts for London.


But we do get our hands on the oil money. It's taxable revenues pay for such loveley things as social care, education, welfare, defence and health. Additional money for that also comes from other parts of the UK.

ou seem to be the kind of person that is advocating we get all oil revenues, plus additional money from other parts of teh UK.

You do relaise that the SNP have cherry picked economic data?
Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen
Then the country would not be standing on its own feet, if you want independence do it properly, otherwise its like a child moving away from th house of mum and dad, saying how brave and independent the yare and then calling home every weekend asking for money.


What about cross border trade? What about the fact that the Scottish and UK economies are operating at similar levels? I would really like a new Scottish currency.

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