The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

That's just a question of demarcation. I would guess it depends if they have acquired some other citizenship in the meantime.

Yep, thats the standard islamist mantra - another intifada will = another 2-5000 dead muslims in palestine. no worries, becuase they are only sacrifical sheep.. sorry 'shaheeds' that advances the 'islamic agenda' which is the most important thing- right?

Hamas responds to killing of 2 protesters and beating of a 3rd by launching a volley of rockets at israel leading to the killing of 900 further palestinians something wrong with that logic somewhere isnt there


FYI hamas dont need any reason to let loose rockets, nor permission from any 'governmental' politician, i guess they do so everytime they run out of space storing rockets in palestinian schools

I support Muslims as much as I support any other religious group. My problem is with totalitarianism. It is nothing to do with Muslim vs. non-Muslim, but totalitarian vs. liberal democrat. If Hamas were a bunch of atheist totalitarians (Communists, for example) I would not support them either. If they were a bunch of Christian fanatics (the KKK, for example) I would not support them either. I support Israel partly because it allows Muslims and Jews to have human rights which they don't have in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran and indeed Gaza.

With all due respect, your opinion is pure crap.

The most liberal state can be totalitarian and the most totalitarian state can be a liberal one.

It just depends on who you compare it against which is why it is such a stupid position to hold.

Yep there seems to be a lot of criminality behind Israel's bizarre reasoning regarding how to respond to Hamas's response to Israeli terrorism. They should have apologised at the very least and compensated the families of those they killed and battered and should have vowed to refrain from such heinous acts of violence in the future but being the wanton criminals that they are that course of action probably never even occurred to them.

I never claimed to support Hamas so meh to the rest of your post

Your opinion sounds like nothing but doublespeak. How can a liberal state possibly be totalitarian? How can a totalitarian state possibly be liberal? The two are polar opposites.

Well, Israel simply regards these people as cannon fodder...

In relation to North Korea, Gaza could be said to be more of a liberal "state".

it takes you this long now to come up with answers. is ummah.com down at the moment?

you tried to justfiy their putting 900 ordinary palestinian lives in danger by launching rockets - in response to a protest killing and someone being beaten up - seems quite clear you support them, why else would you make such a ridiculous justification?

Let me help you out a bit:

Can I asked what you used as a base standard?

In order of importance, descending:

1. Free speech.
2. Regular, free and fair elections.
3. Equality before the law.
4. Property rights.
5. Culture of critical thought and scepticism.
6. Sexual equality and freedom of sexuality.
7. Other issues such as drug legalisation.

In relation to Israel, is Gaza liberal or illiberal?

In comparison to North Korea, is Gaza liberal or illiberal?

Are you seriously throwing a hissy fit because I didn't apologise to you for the tardiness of my reply?



So far, not even our resident "hasbara scholar", Chindits, has managed to provide proof that HAMAS engages in this practice.

Perhaps you'd like to be the first to tackle this?

Nope, never justified Hamas's actions, simply stated plain, unadulterated, widely overlooked facts. the facts that hamas brought 900 palestinians into firing line meant for them by launching their rockets, in revenge for killing of 2 people. thanks for clarifying.

The facts are that Israel is not conducting the current operation in Gaza solely for reasons of 'defence' against Hamas rockets. The media would like you to believe that Israel is defending itself against escalated rocket attacks from 'terrorists'. But that is not how it all started. It did not start with the kidnapping of three Israeli settlers either.

It started with Israeli terrorism in the form of the widespread killing and abuse of Palestinian youth since the beginning of the year 2014, to which Hamas retaliated in whatever way they wished and which I am not attempting to justify. Israel is responding to Hamas's retaliation.
Israel is not responding to Hamas terrorism, Israel is responding to Hamas's response to Israeli terrorism with, incredibly, more terrorism.

Gaza is illiberal compared to Israel, and hardly liberal compared to North Korea. I don't prefer Ismail Haniyeh over Kim Jong Un, if that's what you're asking.

Regardless, Hamas not being quite as bad as the NK regime is hardly an argument in favour of Hamas.

And still you try to weasel out by resorting to terms such as "not as bad" and "hardly liberal" which is now not surprising.

Regardless, I have established that whether something is liberal or illiberal depends on the perception that one holds and what one compares it to.

Therefore, there is by no means an objective standard to which one can adhere to in order to be liberal or illiberal. Ergo, those terms are now meaningless.

i already showed they do this at length some time ago with the Un statements - but if you are going to play that childish game of sticking your head in the sand again, carry on, its too late in the nite for me to indulge you. your reply wasnt worth the wait.