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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV
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Original post by miavdbt
Sure, but why those borders were ignored is a whole other issue. Also, it would have been MUCH easier if the Arabs just accepted the deal rather than be little bitches about it and start a conflict that will never end.
Why should the Palestinians have accepted a joowish land theft of 55% of the land including most of the arable land and coastal land, when the Palestinians were 66% of the population and owned 90% of the land?
#free Gaza
# free Palestine
Boycott Israel
Scum of the earth, systematically destroying Gaza. Next they will invade Gaza and move in. Gaza has lots of natural gas resources.
# free Palestine
Boycott Israel
Scum of the earth, systematically destroying Gaza. Next they will invade Gaza and move in. Gaza has lots of natural gas resources.
Original post by tsr1269
Where do you want them to store them? Army barracks? Inside a mountain?
It's not like they are short on space and people, right?
It's not like they are short on space and people, right?
Army barracks would be a better choice than say, a school.
TO ALL THOSE CLAIMING GAZA HAS NO EMPTY SPACES:
Myth: Hamas has no choice but to place weapons and fighters in populated areas since the Gaza Strip is so crowded that is all there is.
[INDENT][Hamas has] no other choice. Gaza is the size of Detroit. And 1.5 million live here where there are no places for them to fire from them but from among the population. (Taghreed El-Khodary, New York Times Gaza reporter, on CNN, Jan. 1, 2009)
[/INDENT]Fact: There is actually plenty of open space in Gaza, including the now empty sites where Israeli settlements once stood. The Hamas claim, parroted by the Times reporter, is nonsense.
Beyond this, placing your own civilians around or near a military target to act as "human shields" is prohibited by theFourth Geneva Convention:
[INDENT]Art. 28. The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.
[/INDENT]Article 58 of Protocol 1 Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 1977 (which the Palestinian Authority has accepted) goes even further in this regard, requiring that Hamas remove Palestinian civilians from the vicinity of its military facilities, which would include any place where weapons, mortars, bombs and the like are produced, stored, or fired from, and any place where its fighters train, congregate or hide. Here is the text, which calls on the parties to the conflict to:
[INDENT](a) ... endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;
(b) Avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;
(c) Take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations.
[/INDENT]Even UNRWA has weighed in on this, denouncing on July 17 the "group or groups" that had hidden missiles in a UN-run school in Gaza.
Hamas, as the defacto government in Gaza, is responsible for the missiles and other weapons hidden in civilian buildings and areas, and has clearly violated all three of the above provisions.
Myth: Hamas has no choice but to place weapons and fighters in populated areas since the Gaza Strip is so crowded that is all there is.
[INDENT][Hamas has] no other choice. Gaza is the size of Detroit. And 1.5 million live here where there are no places for them to fire from them but from among the population. (Taghreed El-Khodary, New York Times Gaza reporter, on CNN, Jan. 1, 2009)
[/INDENT]Fact: There is actually plenty of open space in Gaza, including the now empty sites where Israeli settlements once stood. The Hamas claim, parroted by the Times reporter, is nonsense.
Beyond this, placing your own civilians around or near a military target to act as "human shields" is prohibited by theFourth Geneva Convention:
[INDENT]Art. 28. The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.
[/INDENT]Article 58 of Protocol 1 Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 1977 (which the Palestinian Authority has accepted) goes even further in this regard, requiring that Hamas remove Palestinian civilians from the vicinity of its military facilities, which would include any place where weapons, mortars, bombs and the like are produced, stored, or fired from, and any place where its fighters train, congregate or hide. Here is the text, which calls on the parties to the conflict to:
[INDENT](a) ... endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives;
(b) Avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas;
(c) Take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations.
[/INDENT]Even UNRWA has weighed in on this, denouncing on July 17 the "group or groups" that had hidden missiles in a UN-run school in Gaza.
Hamas, as the defacto government in Gaza, is responsible for the missiles and other weapons hidden in civilian buildings and areas, and has clearly violated all three of the above provisions.
Original post by tsr1269
But it is a unilateral ceasefire meaning it is no ceasefire as the other side has not accepted.
Israel seems to take hypocrisy to the next level.
Israel seems to take hypocrisy to the next level.
It's not a problem.
There is a ceasefire in place from one side - Israel.
If Hamas decide to also halt their fire, then they will be helping their people.
If they don't, Israel will respond.
So Hamas has two options - also ceasefire, or continue firing.
Let's see what they do.
Original post by miavdbt
Oh, look, engaging in the 'whataboutery' that you so accuse me of.
What whataboutery? Could you be more explicit?
Israel is not a hypocrite.
According to you, it is.
What SANE nation, I repeat, would sit there while rockets are being fired at it! Israel has stopped firing, Hamas has NOT done so. It continues to do so. How is this in any way excusable to even your narrow mind?
Do you not understand what a "unilateral ceasefire" is?
It takes two for a ceasefire to exist, I reiterate.
For a unilateral ceasefire as Israel has just declared, it takes just one...
3:08 p.m. Rocket alert sirens sounded in Ashkelon and Ashdod on Wednesday, minutes after a four-hour humanitarian truce that Israel agreed to was set to take effect at 3 p.m.
Original post by Pinzgauer
It's not a problem.
There is a ceasefire in place from one side - Israel.
If Hamas decide to also halt their fire, then they will be helping their people.
If they don't, Israel will respond.
So Hamas has two options - also ceasefire, or continue firing.
Let's see what they do.
There is a ceasefire in place from one side - Israel.
If Hamas decide to also halt their fire, then they will be helping their people.
If they don't, Israel will respond.
So Hamas has two options - also ceasefire, or continue firing.
Let's see what they do.
Will this unilateral ceasefire count towards your "running total of broken/rejected ceasefires"?
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Army barracks would be a better choice than say, a school.
HAMAS placed munitions in a school?
That's news to me...
More rockets fired.
Communication channels must be horrendous what with the power lines knocked out after the Israeli hit.
Let's see if Israel will break it's own ceasefire.
Communication channels must be horrendous what with the power lines knocked out after the Israeli hit.
Let's see if Israel will break it's own ceasefire.
Original post by tsr1269
HAMAS placed munitions in a school?
That's news to me...
That's news to me...
So, you've not been paying attention to anything that happens over there then? UNRWA revealed it in a routine inspection over a week ago, and it's been covered by pretty much every major news organisation since.
Original post by tsr1269
Will this unilateral ceasefire count towards your "running total of broken/rejected ceasefires"?
It's a humanitarian ceasefire predominantly for palestinans because Israelis are in bomb shelters.
If Hamas decide not to grasp this window to allow their people some time to get supplies, then obviously this will be yet another indicator of the sub-human nature of the terrorist group and their complete lack of empathy for their own civilians.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
So, you've not been paying attention to anything that happens over there then? UNRWA revealed it in a routine inspection a few days back, and it's been covered by pretty much every major news organisation since.
More munitions found the other day.
That's 3 caches in UN schools.
Military said tunnel objective completed but contradicted by housing minister.
Someone wasn't CC'd on the memo...
Someone wasn't CC'd on the memo...
Furthermore, UNILATERAL CEASEFIRE, does not necessarily mean a one sided ceasefire according to this macmillan definition of the word unilateral http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/unilateral
For those like TSR, who will undoubtedly twist this to suit their own needs, unilateral can also mean a ceasefire that is entirely decided by one country, rather than one that just includes one country not firing.
For those like TSR, who will undoubtedly twist this to suit their own needs, unilateral can also mean a ceasefire that is entirely decided by one country, rather than one that just includes one country not firing.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Pinzgauer
It's a humanitarian ceasefire predominantly for palestinans because Israelis are in bomb shelters.
If Hamas decide not to grasp this window to allow their people some time to get supplies, then obviously this will be yet another indicator of the sub-human nature of the terrorist group and their complete lack of empathy for their own civilians.
If Hamas decide not to grasp this window to allow their people some time to get supplies, then obviously this will be yet another indicator of the sub-human nature of the terrorist group and their complete lack of empathy for their own civilians.
But a unilateral ceasefire is not conditional upon the "enemy action" but it seems in Israel's case, it is...
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
So, you've not been paying attention to anything that happens over there then? UNRWA revealed it in a routine inspection over a week ago, and it's been covered by pretty much every major news organisation since.
You can correct me if I am wrong but the UNRWA didn't state that it was HAMAS munitions...
Original post by miavdbt
Furthermore, UNILATERAL CEASEFIRE, does not necessarily mean a one sided ceasefire according to this macmillan definition of the word unilateral http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/unilateral
For those like TSR, who will undoubtedly twist this to suit their own needs, unilateral can also mean a ceasefire that is entirely decided by one country, rather than one that just includes one country not firing.
For those like TSR, who will undoubtedly twist this to suit their own needs, unilateral can also mean a ceasefire that is entirely decided by one country, rather than one that just includes one country not firing.
I think you should re-read it.
It defeats your own point.
Original post by tsr1269
I think you should re-read it.
It defeats your own point.
It defeats your own point.
No, it does not.
I am simply stating that Israel is the one who drafted the ceasefire, Israel is the one who decided on the conditions, without the aid of Hamas. This does not mean that Israel has stated that it is the only one that it will abide by it. It has stopped firing, and if Hamas agrees, it can stop firing too. If not, the unilateral ceasefire will be ruined.
I don't understand how I can make this anymore clear.
You're a moron if you think "Israel has stopped firing".. and you're plain retarded if you reject the fact Israel started this present conflict in the first place.
Why is it "self-defence" if Israel bomb a UN school, kills UN volunteer workers, targets an over-populated hospital, bombs kids on a beach and kids in a park, bombs civilian homes (list can go on forever actually)
But its "terrorism" if Palestine sends their rockets in response, if you can call them rockets at all, to merely cause a hole or a bit of a mess on a pavement in Israel
So I think we should um use your statement of "What SANE nation, would sit there while rockets are being fired at it!".. but instead of making excuses for Israel's undoubtedly clear and obvious genocide, apply it to the Palestinians for a change.
In regards to a ceasefire, I'm sure you've seen the video of the man who was shot by a sniper whilst looking for his family amongst rubble with a group of UN volunteers.. THAT occurred during a 3-HOUR CEASEFIRE (lol. Israel gives ceasefires in hours to let people collect the dead bodies of their relatives - we'll let that speak for itself)
Stop being a sheep, stop being a simple fool and supporting a state that has so much blood on its hands it will never be able to wash it off, and start thinking for urself
I won't be replying back to your probable attempt of acting political amongst some nonsense including the words "terrorism" "Hamas" "right to exist" "self-defence" "they started it" and blah blah blah, it's a genocide and you can't lie to yourself and others anymore
Why is it "self-defence" if Israel bomb a UN school, kills UN volunteer workers, targets an over-populated hospital, bombs kids on a beach and kids in a park, bombs civilian homes (list can go on forever actually)
But its "terrorism" if Palestine sends their rockets in response, if you can call them rockets at all, to merely cause a hole or a bit of a mess on a pavement in Israel
So I think we should um use your statement of "What SANE nation, would sit there while rockets are being fired at it!".. but instead of making excuses for Israel's undoubtedly clear and obvious genocide, apply it to the Palestinians for a change.
In regards to a ceasefire, I'm sure you've seen the video of the man who was shot by a sniper whilst looking for his family amongst rubble with a group of UN volunteers.. THAT occurred during a 3-HOUR CEASEFIRE (lol. Israel gives ceasefires in hours to let people collect the dead bodies of their relatives - we'll let that speak for itself)
Stop being a sheep, stop being a simple fool and supporting a state that has so much blood on its hands it will never be able to wash it off, and start thinking for urself
I won't be replying back to your probable attempt of acting political amongst some nonsense including the words "terrorism" "Hamas" "right to exist" "self-defence" "they started it" and blah blah blah, it's a genocide and you can't lie to yourself and others anymore
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