Lifting weights

OP

I've typed this post all out and then it said i never posted it.

So a succint version of my post was...

People on the internet are probably fake nattys. Some are obviously bot natural, others a bit more ambiguious.

Do you track macros?
How often do you train?
Do you progressively overload?
Sleep?

Bench is lagging.

Hmmmm. Maybe you don't want my opinion.... But

Those goals are vague.

Current weight is x. I want to cut by a pound a week ish and hit y weight (or until you feel skinny).

Then i will see what weight i am when skinny enough to bulk for several months through the winter and into the spring.

Aim to gain 1/2 pound per week.

Personally the above is better as it is about YOU.
I'm never be as big as a 6'6 guy.
I'll never be as strong as a strongman.
I'll never be as ripped as a bodybuilder on show day.

But i don't care. My goal is asthetics (secondarily) strength and i want to be better than i was 6 month ago etc etc.

Maybe you are a unique case but i'd seriously consider:

Tracking macros (protein and calories is enough) daily.

Have a plan of sorts ie cut for x time. Then bulk.

Track weight religiously (you already do that on here) of exercises and look to scrape reps out. Always try and improve (most not all) workouts.

Sleep 8/9 hours (as best you can)

If you do all that man..... Idk. Take some roidz :tongue:

just joking.

I firmly believe if you do all that you WILL make gains.

Do you want to be stronger (then a bit more muscular) or asthetics (and a bit stronger)?

First one - go on powerlifter programme.

If latter: (seems like your choosing the bro life)

Just do whole body 3 tims a week. Tbh i think what you do is less important.

Likeyou train everything i think so it is more diet and progressive overload.

Cut bro then make gains.

(This is a very succinct version of what i tried to post. I'm just being blunt because cba expanding)

The intention of this is NOT to patronise you.
It is to try and get to the bottom of why progress has been slow.

Clearly you regularly train. What you are doing isn't bad i don't think.

So.... Diet then. Cut then slow, steady, consistent surplus.
Sleep.
Progresive overload.

Idk, why do you think it is?

Opinions never bad dude, dw - appreciate the input!

I could tell you exactly how much of which macronutrients (as well as fruit/veg, processed/red meat and alcohol) I've had virtually any day for the last 2 years, and before that I always tracked protein and calories anyway. I'm pretty autistic about diet really haha. Recently gone mosty veggie and cut back protein to 1.5g/kg be rather than 1g/lb, but that's still relatively new.

I train 3x per week at the moment, get least 8 hours of good sleep and always focus on increasing volume or intensity.

My short term goal is cutting down to 10-12% navy bf, then I'll just do small cut/bulk cycles staying between say 12 and 15%.

I'm well researched (internet 'educated') on training - I've read SS, PP, 5/3/1 etc. and used to lurk, shitpost etc on /fit/, bb.com etc. The problem I have isn't that I get strong and not big, but that I never seem to be able to make those strength gains in the first place, particularly with bench (and boy have I done a lot of form work to try and nail that down). For example, I've pulled 166kg and 141kgx10 at 69kg bw, which is at least respectably strong. Squat gains have never come too hard especially when squatting 3x/week, but ive had recurring (though I believe unrelated) knee and back problems that have always stopped my linear progression before I get much past 2 plate. I can chin/pull up with 20+kg on the belt... but my bench and ohp just suck dicks.

I don't know why it is tbh but I'm not into making excuses. People have suggested low test to me before but I don't really believe that and it feels like a bit of a cop out, but ive just got to the point where I don't worry too much about making huge long term progress anymore. I just try hitting my short term goals each session (e.g. add weight or 1 rep to every set) and try and get enough volume in that I might see some gains. Ill probably change up my routine again at some point, so perhaps if/when I finish dropping weight this time I'll hop back on a full body 3x/week. I'll see!

The best gains I ever made were when I did SS on 4500kcal I day. I did get a bit stronger, but I got waay fatter and just couldn't hold onto the strength when I cut down afterwards, even though I went super slow :dontknow:

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 122

[QUOTE=Implication;66790700]Opinions never bad dude, dw - appreciate the input!

I could tell you exactly how much of which macronutrients (as well as fruit/veg, processed/red meat and alcohol) I've had virtually any day for the last 2 years, and before that I always tracked protein and calories anyway. I'm pretty autistic about diet really haha. Recently gone mosty veggie and cut back protein to 1.5g/kg be rather than 1g/lb, but that's still relatively new.

I train 3x per week at the moment, get least 8 hours of good sleep and always focus on increasing volume or intensity.

My short term goal is cutting down to 10-12% navy bf, then I'll just do small cut/bulk cycles staying between say 12 and 15%.

I'm well researched (internet 'educated' :wink:

on training - I've read SS, PP, 5/3/1 etc. and used to lurk, shitpost etc on /fit/, bb.com etc. The problem I have isn't that I get strong and not big, but that I never seem to be able to make those strength gains in the first place, particularly with bench (and boy have I done a lot of form work to try and nail that down). For example, I've pulled 166kg and 141kgx10 at 69kg bw, which is at least respectably strong. Squat gains have never come too hard especially when squatting 3x/week, but ive had recurring (though I believe unrelated) knee and back problems that have always stopped my linear progression before I get much past 2 plate. I can chin/pull up with 20+kg on the belt... but my bench and ohp just suck dicks.

I don't know why it is tbh but I'm not into making excuses. People have suggested low test to me before but I don't really believe that and it feels like a bit of a cop out, but ive just got to the point where I don't worry too much about making huge long term progress anymore. I just try hitting my short term goals each session (e.g. add weight or 1 rep to every set) and try and get enough volume in that I might see some gains. Ill probably change up my routine again at some point, so perhaps if/when I finish dropping weight this time I'll hop back on a full body 3x/week. I'll see!

The best gains I ever made were when I did SS on 4500kcal I day. I did get a bit stronger, but I got waay fatter and just couldn't hold onto the strength when I cut down afterwards, even though I went super slow :dontknow:

Posted from TSR Mobile

Well seems like you have the macro side of it nailed.

1.5g a kg isn't far off. I'd say maybe 1.8 is the highest you need to go according to studies etc.

I think the issue is the bulk/cut cycles.

You need to be in a consistent, slow, steady surplus for months.

So, i'd cut and get to 12% ish bf.

Then bulk for 6-9 months. 1/2 pound a week.

If you see no appreciable gains after that then ok, you have an underlying issue.

However, i really think you should give it a go.

This is only my opinion, but short bulk/cut cycles are only good to maintain when you're huge and an advanced lifter (probably on gear).

I made poorish gains in my first 6 months of training.

Good training. Consistent.
Good diet.
Sleep.
Very new to stimulus.

But i kept cutting for 4 weeks, bulking for 8-12. Stunting my progress.

You could always get your test tested (i'd like to see what mine is out of curiosity) but i don't know if that is the reason.

Your deadlift is v good.

OHP and Bench just will be weaker then.

It really depends what you are wanting.
For me, lifts don't matter. All about gaining size (and as a result, strength).

Use DBs for Bench and try and get the hypertrophy in. A few sets of 8-12.

I don't see why you can't get long-term progress. You don't need to Squat, i'd just deadlift and use machines to get that extra work into your legs.

If you had low test surely you and your fiancée would notice issues...

Well yeah, bulking by so much will make you strong but quickly fat.

Go slow, steady and a LONG time in a surplus and you'll get gains imo.

If not, get your test looked into and get on TRT and make gainz

Reply 123

OP

Original post by Unistudent77

Well seems like you have the macro side of it nailed.

1.5g a kg isn't far off. I'd say maybe 1.8 is the highest you need to go according to studies etc.

I think the issue is the bulk/cut cycles.

You need to be in a consistent, slow, steady surplus for months.

So, i'd cut and get to 12% ish bf.

Then bulk for 6-9 months. 1/2 pound a week.

If you see no appreciable gains after that then ok, you have an underlying issue.

However, i really think you should give it a go.

This is only my opinion, but short bulk/cut cycles are only good to maintain when you're huge and an advanced lifter (probably on gear).

I made poorish gains in my first 6 months of training.

Good training. Consistent.
Good diet.
Sleep.
Very new to stimulus.

But i kept cutting for 4 weeks, bulking for 8-12. Stunting my progress.

You could always get your test tested (i'd like to see what mine is out of curiosity) but i don't know if that is the reason.

Your deadlift is v good.

OHP and Bench just will be weaker then.

It really depends what you are wanting.
For me, lifts don't matter. All about gaining size (and as a result, strength).

Use DBs for Bench and try and get the hypertrophy in. A few sets of 8-12.

I don't see why you can't get long-term progress. You don't need to Squat, i'd just deadlift and use machines to get that extra work into your legs.

If you had low test surely you and your fiancée would notice issues...

Well yeah, bulking by so much will make you strong but quickly fat.

Go slow, steady and a LONG time in a surplus and you'll get gains imo.

If not, get your test looked into and get on TRT and make gainz

TSR just deleted my post too ;_;

You make a good point re bulking/cutting. I understand the idea is to spend most of the time in a surplus, cutting down quickly when necessary and getting back on the surplus again ASAP. I've not quite pinned down exactly why, but I often tend to spend less time bulking than I intend and too long cutting. It's probably because I know how easy it is to gain and lose weight so I don't worry about eating lots 'occasionally' and end up binging too often, making me fatter quicker and making it take longer to lose weight. I should probably be aiming to spend say >75% of the time in surplus, when in reality I've probably spent <30% the whole time I've been lifting.

Re test, it's not causing me medical issues so can't really ask my GP. I've always had generally low libido, but actually in the bedroom all is a-okay

Reply 124

Having met you bro, you need to accept that you need to gain some bf%. You don't have an ounce on you yo and you're relatively small framed. You're not short either iirc.

What was your bench when you were pulling that @69kg?

Reply 125

[QUOTE=Implication;66797210]TSR just deleted my post too ;_;

You make a good point re bulking/cutting. I understand the idea is to spend most of the time in a surplus, cutting down quickly when necessary and getting back on the surplus again ASAP. I've not quite pinned down exactly why, but I often tend to spend less time bulking than I intend and too long cutting. It's probably because I know how easy it is to gain and lose weight so I don't worry about eating lots 'occasionally' and end up binging too often, making me fatter quicker and making it take longer to lose weight. I should probably be aiming to spend say >75% of the time in surplus, when in reality I've probably spent <30% the whole time I've been lifting.

Re test, it's not causing me medical issues so can't really ask my GP. I've always had generally low libido, but actually in the bedroom all is a-okay

Well i think that is your problem then...

Before you give mentally i'd really give yourself a chance.

So keep cutting (idk what bf you are at?) you are smilar height to me (maybe a cm taller) and similar weight so surely you're no more than 15%, i'd say i'm 12/13.

Anyway, so cut for a bit.

Then bulk for months. Preferably over 6 months.
After 3/4 months into the bulk i was hitting PBs every week. Then got injured and also went to maintenance after like 5 months.

Don't binge! Track everything and stay at 250 calories surplus each day.
Maybe have a Saturday night takeaway but even that can be accounted for with a small breakfast and lunch.

I averaged 0.75lbs a week so i know how hard it is to stick to just 1/2 pound but the closer you stick to that, the longer you're making gains.

As soon as you cut, you're losing strength.

1/2 months cutting is fine but longer than that out of surplus is hurting your strength and size.

I'm at maintenance and have had some stalling now on some lifts.

Injury has stopped me bulking.
As soon as i'm back from holiday, i'll be bulking.

Eating 4,500 calories a day is just as bad!

Well at 23, even with lower than average libido i think you'll have sufficient test to make gains.

Could always get a test done at a private hospital.
Do you have a job?
Costs like £250 i think....

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 126

[QUOTE=Angry cucumber;66797452]Having met you bro, you need to accept that you need to gain some bf%. You don't have an ounce on you yo and you're relatively small framed. You're not short either iirc.

What was your bench when you were pulling that @69kg?

Sounds like i was then.
Didn't want to bulk for fear of getting fat.

Actually, the fat gain was slow and not commented upon and i still had mushy abs even after 5 months.
Will push it further this coming bulk.

I think people put on more than a pound a week. Then you DO get fat fast and feel like cutting.

Cut for a bit more bro and just slowly bulk through winter and spring.

I can guarantee if you keep posting in here re exercises. Making protein decent. Sleep.
And bulk by 1/2 pound a week you WILL make gains over several months.

Put on about 14-16 pounds. Then you will only need to cut like 6 next spring.
So 6 week cut.

Then bulk again for ages. 8/9 months. Cut again.

Then you'll be a bodybuilda like Cucumber :tongue:

Reply 127

Original post by Unistudent77

Well i think that is your problem then...

Before you give mentally i'd really give yourself a chance.

So keep cutting (idk what bf you are at?) you are smilar height to me (maybe a cm taller) and similar weight so surely you're no more than 15%, i'd say i'm 12/13.

Anyway, so cut for a bit.

Then bulk for months. Preferably over 6 months.
After 3/4 months into the bulk i was hitting PBs every week. Then got injured and also went to maintenance after like 5 months.

Don't binge! Track everything and stay at 250 calories surplus each day.
Maybe have a Saturday night takeaway but even that can be accounted for with a small breakfast and lunch.

I averaged 0.75lbs a week so i know how hard it is to stick to just 1/2 pound but the closer you stick to that, the longer you're making gains.

As soon as you cut, you're losing strength.

1/2 months cutting is fine but longer than that out of surplus is hurting your strength and size.

I'm at maintenance and have had some stalling now on some lifts.

Injury has stopped me bulking.
As soon as i'm back from holiday, i'll be bulking.

Eating 4,500 calories a day is just as bad!

Well at 23, even with lower than average libido i think you'll have sufficient test to make gains.

Could always get a test done at a private hospital.
Do you have a job?
Costs like £250 i think....

Don't write what I've just deleted pls. Fanks

Reply 128

[QUOTE=Angry cucumber;66797722]Don't write what I've just deleted pls. Fanks

You mods are so strict!

Don't hate the player, hate the game

Reply 129

Original post by Unistudent77

You mods are so strict!

Don't hate the player, hate the game

Ain't even a mod yo

I just do as instructed, until randomly someone more senior flaunts said rule as happened earlier this year and created a thread about them :lol:

Reply 130

Also @Unistudent77 if you want to break someones post in quotes

[ quote ]

Das how

Reply 131

[QUOTE=Angry cucumber;66797876]Ain't even a mod yo

I just do as instructed, until randomly someone more senior flaunts said rule as happened earlier this year and created a thread about them :lol:

Thought you were a fitness mod... Oh well.

Well i was tactful about how i referred to them and it was said in jest.
I'm guessing tsr has a rule of NO talk about them at all... ?

Isn't education the best way though, like threads on why we stay natty and just general info...
Suppose people can use google for their own research.

[QUOTE=Angry cucumber;66797894]Also @Unistudent77 if you want to break someones post in quotes

[ quote ]

Das how

Mind BLOWN.

Cheers bro. I will forget that but i'll try and fail to remember how to quote.

Reply 132

Original post by Unistudent77

Thought you were a fitness mod... Oh well.

Well i was tactful about how i referred to them and it was said in jest.
I'm guessing tsr has a rule of NO talk about them at all... ?

Isn't education the best way though, like threads on why we stay natty and just general info...
Suppose people can use google for their own research.

Das how

Mind BLOWN.

Cheers bro. I will forget that but i'll try and fail to remember how to quote.

I'm in charge of fitness, but we're no longer mods, that got removed a year or so ago, I can edit and remove posts and bin some things, but have roughly half the powers I did have :cry:

Its ST member now lolz

Reply 133

Original post by Angry cucumber

Mind BLOWN.

Cheers bro. I will forget that but i'll try and fail to remember how to quote.

I'm in charge of fitness, but we're no longer mods, that got removed a year or so ago, I can edit and remove posts and bin some things, but have roughly half the powers I did have :cry:

Its ST member now lolz

Why? Have they cut back the number of mods etc?

Sucks then

Reply 134

OP

Original post by Angry cucumber

Having met you bro, you need to accept that you need to gain some bf%. You don't have an ounce on you yo and you're relatively small framed. You're not short either iirc.

What was your bench when you were pulling that @69kg?

My bf% is clearly still quite high though. As I say, always been skinnyfat historically. Right now, I have about a 4 pack in perfect lighting but most of the time completely negligible definition. All sensible advice I can find (that doesn't include just being a little tubbs some of the time) advocates getting down to a low bf% first, then bulking up while staying relatively lean.

im 177cm, 69kg, 14-15% navy for whatever small amount its worth

Reply 135

OP

Original post by Unistudent77

Well i think that is your problem then...

Before you give mentally i'd really give yourself a chance.

So keep cutting (idk what bf you are at?) you are smilar height to me (maybe a cm taller) and similar weight so surely you're no more than 15%, i'd say i'm 12/13.

Anyway, so cut for a bit.

Then bulk for months. Preferably over 6 months.
After 3/4 months into the bulk i was hitting PBs every week. Then got injured and also went to maintenance after like 5 months.

Don't binge! Track everything and stay at 250 calories surplus each day.
Maybe have a Saturday night takeaway but even that can be accounted for with a small breakfast and lunch.

I averaged 0.75lbs a week so i know how hard it is to stick to just 1/2 pound but the closer you stick to that, the longer you're making gains.

As soon as you cut, you're losing strength.

1/2 months cutting is fine but longer than that out of surplus is hurting your strength and size.

I'm at maintenance and have had some stalling now on some lifts.

Injury has stopped me bulking.
As soon as i'm back from holiday, i'll be bulking.

Eating 4,500 calories a day is just as bad!

Well at 23, even with lower than average libido i think you'll have sufficient test to make gains.

Could always get a test done at a private hospital.
Do you have a job?
Costs like £250 i think....

Original post by Unistudent77

Sounds like i was then.
Didn't want to bulk for fear of getting fat.

Actually, the fat gain was slow and not commented upon and i still had mushy abs even after 5 months.
Will push it further this coming bulk.

I think people put on more than a pound a week. Then you DO get fat fast and feel like cutting.

Cut for a bit more bro and just slowly bulk through winter and spring.

I can guarantee if you keep posting in here re exercises. Making protein decent. Sleep.
And bulk by 1/2 pound a week you WILL make gains over several months.

Put on about 14-16 pounds. Then you will only need to cut like 6 next spring.
So 6 week cut.

Then bulk again for ages. 8/9 months. Cut again.

Then you'll be a bodybuilda like Cucumber :tongue:

thanks for all the advice dude

thats my plan now - cut down to 12% navy then start the slow bulk. i've just gotta get my head in the game and commit fully to diet. hang on i'll post a graph of my cals/weight/bf for this year

Attachment not found

[QUOTE=Implication;66798794]My bf% is clearly still quite high though. As I say, always been skinnyfat historically. Right now, I have about a 4 pack in perfect lighting but most of the time completely negligible definition. All sensible advice I can find (that doesn't include just being a little tubbs some of the time) advocates getting down to a low bf% first, then bulking up while staying relatively lean.

im 177cm, 69kg, 14-15% navy for whatever small amount its worth

If you have 4 in good lightening you are fairly lean.

You don't have the muscle mass to cut through the fat.

The heavier you deadlift and bench etc the stronger your core will be.

When does your abs strengthen? In a surplus when you're gaining fat and 'losing them'. You do not build abs when you cut, you unveil them.

Some leg raises just put a pump in them, say before the beach in Ibiza, yeah sure but end of a workout is pointless unless you continually do more.

What i'm saying is heavy compound lifts and having your core braced through some isolation exercises will strengthen abs.

You're similar to me. My abs got actually better during my bulk last year, not worse.
Less definition but they protruded more as they grew to stabalise me when using heavy DBs or doing rows or whatever.

[QUOTE=Implication;66798928]thanks for all the advice dude

thats my plan now - cut down to 12% navy then start the slow bulk. i've just gotta get my head in the game and commit fully to diet. hang on i'll post a graph of my cals/weight/bf for this year

Attachment not found

No problem. People overcomplicate it.

Can you get abs and a 'rugby' player type physique - Yes. 100%.

FFMI of above 23 well maybe not.
You should not write yourself off.

You have lost 8/9lbs.
That's good going.

I'd go a bit more them bulk.
Maybe August.
So 3-4 weeks of cutting.

Do more cardio as opposed to restricting calories. Sure, you WILL need to limit calories but the more your active, the greater your metabolism.

Lose another 3/4 lbs. You'll be 13/14% bf at worst. That's fine.

Say April is end of bulk (roughly)

7/8 months so 14-16lbs is your bulk.

So from 150-152 to 165 -168lbs.

If you do it right you'd be hoping for 50/50 (muscle/fat).

So from 12st cut to 11 1/2.

Allow yourself say 8 weeks as a pound a week is the most you should cut.

You'll be up 10lbs (or just under) and same bf or even leaner slightly.

You will look leaner as your abs and muscle will be more obvious. Less 'skinnyfat'.

Then you bulk again in say June until the following April.

That will be you up 16-20lbs of lean muscle in two years (maybe a little leas as you have already had some gains).

You'll be 12st lean by spring 2018.

(Don't take all that as literally. Injury can happen. Gains maybe a touch slower etc etc. BUT that is a decent ROUGH plan to follow and is pretty much exactly what i'm doing).

I'm up 10lbs from last year and i've been injured for 3-4 months and also i'm slightly leaner by 2-3 lbs.

Have these long term goals but also focus short term.

Cut some fat.

Then make gains, see the numbers climb and enjoy the ride haha.

Make hay while the sun shines and when a rainy day happens (ie injury) just eat at maintenance and ride it out.

I want to be lifting in 20 years time. It's certainly a marathon, not a sprint.

Also, you might make gains fairly quickly as you'll get back some strength you had at your peak a year or two ago when you were fatter. Muscle memory is actual god.

Reply 137

Original post by Implication

My bf% is clearly still quite high though. As I say, always been skinnyfat historically. Right now, I have about a 4 pack in perfect lighting but most of the time completely negligible definition. All sensible advice I can find (that doesn't include just being a little tubbs some of the time) advocates getting down to a low bf% first, then bulking up while staying relatively lean.

im 177cm, 69kg, 14-15% navy for whatever small amount its worth

Bro we're the same height and there's 15kg (plus a lil bit after this weekend) in difference. Bf% going off abs is wack and anything short of a dexa scan. You're skinny-skinny fat imo. The reason you have no abdominal definition is probably due to the small size of your muscles (no offence :tongue:

). Your bmi is 22, you are not fat and have little fat! Bulk conservatively would be advice, no need to go cray cray but doing it that way will build muscle (the whole idea of the game!) and you might well find your definition improves too.

Das my advice, imo you don't have enough fat or muscle to cut any further. You're 23? Prime time for gainz brah

Also depending on how long you've been in a caloric deficit - you may well be wobbling that test level that unistudent is on about. (It'd be v.rare for someone at 23 to have low test)

Reply 138

[QUOTE=Angry cucumber;66799750]Bro we're the same height and there's 15kg (plus a lil bit after this weekend) in difference. Bf% going off abs is wack and anything short of a dexa scan. You're skinny-skinny fat imo. The reason you have no abdominal definition is probably due to the small size of your muscles (no offence :tongue:

). Your bmi is 22, you are not fat and have little fat! Bulk conservatively would be advice, no need to go cray cray but doing it that way will build muscle (the whole idea of the game!) and you might well find your definition improves too.

Das my advice, imo you don't have enough fat or muscle to cut any further. You're 23? Prime time for gainz brah

Also depending on how long you've been in a caloric deficit - you may well be wobbling that test level that unistudent is on about. (It'd be v.rare for someone at 23 to have low test)

Agreed.

Maybe i was too nice in my post.

My honest initial reaction wass 'bulk bro'.

I would be bulking myself if i didn't have a busy couple weeks ahead.

To Implication - last rant (promise haha)

If i'm not cutting hard then i'm bulking (unless injured, otherwise you're stalling)

You've been cutting since January, that is WAY too long.

Personally, i'd advise (on everything bar Squat and Deadlift)

3 sets (you can take the volume) of 8-12 reps.

As soon as you hit 3 x 12. Weight goes up by smallest fraction avaliable. Say 18kg DBs to 20s or whatever.

That way you get lots of PBs and keep feeling like you're progressing.

If you fall out the 3 x 8 range then it is too heavy and chances are your form is getting loose.
Above 12 reps is basically cardio.

Everything else you have nailed.

I reckon you'll get some muscle memory back once you put yourself in a surplus.

Stop writing yourself off psychologically.

If you can perform for your fiancee your test is fine.

Genetics don't mean **** until you are talking 30/40+ lbs of lean muscle mass later.

Your body can grow just like everyone else's can.

You clearly have the dedication and drive that loads don't.

You're young.

Just stay in a small surplus, train, sleep and keep protein above 100g a day (minimum) and you WILL be pleased come spring time when you look back.

We're all going to make it!

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 139

OP