The losers vote

It seems non of the passionate remainers on the forum took my bait.

I admit the title of this thread was deliberately thought provoking, I wrote it on purpose to show how this sinister model of americanised political spin doctoring (which is really lying) is being used to further divide or too reinforce the divide between Remainers and Leavers.
Losers and winners in my case but what's actually happening now is far more sinister than that, the division the extreme remainers are pushing is People vs underclass or the educated vs the stupid!

I sometimes wonder why it is that people cannot see what is happening before their eyes? For example people get so upset if they if they encounter this political spin doctoring against their cause but at the same time are more than willing to embrace or even endorse it it supports their cause only to wonder why bitter social divisions open up.

Education is failing in my eyes, this spin doctoring is bad, if you disagree go on humanitarian tours go and visit countries with dictatorship style 'democracy' governments see the methods they use and then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path.

As a leave voter (in both referendums), and a supporter of of new people's votes, I didn't find the thread title thought provoking.

You seem to be harking back to 'the good old days', it was ever thus.

Well you should, everyone should the title was wrong purposely designed to slur 48% of the country, just as People's vote it a condensending term to slur 52% of the country. Can you not see that?

I'd like to know why you think I'm harking back to the good old days? I've never suggested this and said nothing of the sort.

Yup, course I can see that. Just not very thought provoking is it? Especially as 'People's vote' just means a vote of the electorate rather than the members vote we are due to have.

As a leave voter I'd like a peoples vote on the final deal.

I'd also like another vote on leaving the Union. I guess that means I want a loser's vote as a natmoaner, hmmmmm pithy condescension doesn't work all the time.

Well saying "this spin doctoring is bad" and "then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path" are phrases which indicate you think things used not to be like this.

I don't see it like that, what's a members vote if you don't mind me asking?

condescension does work all the time in my opinion,

No I did not mean things used to be better. "this spin doctoring is bad" and "then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path" are phrases which indicate we are travelling down the wrong path and becoming a little too excepting of behaviour which damages the society we live in

As a leave voter (in both referendums), and a supporter of of new people's votes, I didn't find the thread title thought provoking.

You seem to be harking back to 'the good old days', it was ever thus.

I'm sick of hearing about this. Everybody including this forum are refusing to properly evaluate the question of 'what would happen if we remained in the European Union?' Untill we do this we can never fix the European model to make it work for the majority of the country.

Members of Parliament.

We are having the Lords and the other chamber voting, but not the public.

Who is to say it isn't already working for the majority of the country?

Anyone who goes on holiday to Euorope benefits
Anyone who buys food from the supermarket benefits
Anyone who values family life benefits
Anyone who values privacy benefits
Anyone who uses the internet benefits
Anyone who drives a car manufactured in the UK benefits
Anyone who flys on an Airbus benefits
Anyone who visits their local beach benefits
Anyone who is delayed on a flight into or out of Europe benefits
Anyone who uses the NHS benefits

So they are all most of the people who benefit from us being in the EU. Who are the people who don't benefit? And what will we (as individuals) be able to do about it post Brexit? I mean - I have a vote for my parliamentary candidate, but it is worthless becuase unlike the EU, we don't have proportional representation in parliament. So you could argue that I have more power over who is elected to Brussels than I do to my own MP.

Who is to say it isn't already working for the majority of the country?

I have a vote for my parliamentary candidate, but it is worthless becuase unlike the EU, we don't have proportional representation in parliament. So you could argue that I have more power over who is elected to Brussels than I do to my own MP.

You missed out that the European Union makes the sun rise in the morning.

Thank you for clearing that up, I understand what you mean and fir what it's worth in part, if you are saying the house of lords and hereditary peers should not have influence greater than the electorate, you're right.

Unfortunately the last body to try to remove these elites from the system found themselves very unpopular with elite and thus the media and as if by coincidence found themselves unpopular with the electorate, go figure.

This is because the majority of the British public voted for first past the post,

I also meant MPs too.

Excellent idea.. but..






Then you go on to make claims like this and completely undermine your entire position. No point in having a debate with anyone who relies upon logical fallacies to make their argument appear stronger than it really is, because that wouldn't be a real debate. It takes everybody on all sides of a debate to conduct themselves properly, otherwise it's not a real debate and doesn't get anywhere; just more of the same.

I've just replied to him, I actually rewrote my reply twice because it was so difficult to not add something like you just have