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    (Original post by PaediatricStN)
    Reality for the NHS is that we're so economical, we've overstepped it. We're stretched to the limit. To get anywhere near the optimum economy level, we need more staff. More nurses, more HCAs, more doctors. Not less staff. Not further delegation of skills to junior staff so we can make savings.
    The reality is the money isn't there to have what you envisage as the ideal NHS, so staff have to adapt to the conditions they work in or look for a different job.

    Nurses and other nhs staff don't live off the thank yous of patients, so the financial side of things is a huge factor unfortunately.
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    (Original post by Octavian89)
    I have to agree with this. I think too many Nurses or aspiring Nurses live in this world where the NHS has unlimited funds, and can happily pay nurses 25k a year to attend to the basic hygiene of patients, when a HCA can do it just as effectively and they're on far less money.

    Its almost as if some Nurses don't respect the care assistants as being a fundamental part of the team and capable enough to communicate any potential issues to a Nurse.

    Nurses get paid better money and require a 3 year degree because they have extra responsibilities, so its inevitable that the tasks that staff on less money can do should be doing them. I really don't understand the issue.

    These Nurses who complain about management suggesting ways of lessening the workload so we can concentrate on things like IVs, meds, paperwork which the HCA cannot do. Will be the same Nurses complaining about understaffing and not having enough time to do this and that.
    ButterflyRN never said anything about nurses spending all their time doing personal care. She has noted that the nurse must get their own jobs the hcas can't do out of the way first and prioritised accordingly, including her band 6 duties. The point of the post is that if the nurse is free, and is filling out assessments, they should be helping with personal care. Paperwork etc can wait if there's washes to be done.
    Yes the hcas get paid less but that doesn't mean they should do all of it if the nurse is available to help. Plus you typically only get one hca per bay so if a patient needs a wash or reposition with two members of staff obviously the nurse will need to help.

    Assessment skills vary between hca to hca and even nurse to nurse so the nurse who is signing the legal document should have a look for themselves.
    As I've said previously, pressure area assessment is easy to get wrong and pressure damage can be easily missed if you're relying on hcas (not always but sometimes).


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    (Original post by Octavian89)
    The reality is the money isn't there to have what you envisage as the ideal NHS, so staff have to adapt to the conditions they work in or look for a different job.

    Nurses and other nhs staff don't live off the thank yous of patients, so the financial side of things is a huge factor unfortunately.
    There is a willingness to adapt throughout the nursing profession. Look at all the additional roles we have taken on in recent times... Venepuncture, independent prescribing, acute assessment and triage, to name but a few. However, the adaptation must be in the best interests of patients.

    If it wasn't clear, I'm a nurse. So I'm well aware we don't live on the grattitude of patients.
 
 
 
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