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Reply 40
They had it for 2004-2005 too.
Reply 41
gbdb222: Is your suggestion that oral interviews are a bad way of picking candidates seing as they will eventually be graded on written exams?
Or are you suggesting that academics are poor at picking the best candidates?

If the first I would suggest that the point of education is to create an intelligent and motivated individual, not a person who does well at exams, so the complaint should be against the exam papers used to grade finals students, not the interview process.

If the second I would disagree for essentially the same reason. The point of education is to produce motivated, intelligent individuals. At Oxbridge particularly the teaching is mainly done by supervisions, which consist of one on one chats with students. In many ways practically identical to an interview procedure, they may have no formal training but most will have in the region of 5-10 years of practical experience supervising before they are interviewing, so I'd say they are exceptionally well trained for the interview procedure. They've been working with students for years, and know what sort of people excell, both in supervisions and eventually in finals.
Calvin
gbdb222: Is your suggestion that oral interviews are a bad way of picking candidates seing as they will eventually be graded on written exams?
Or are you suggesting that academics are poor at picking the best candidates?

If the first I would suggest that the point of education is to create an intelligent and motivated individual, not a person who does well at exams, so the complaint should be against the exam papers used to grade finals students, not the interview process.

If the second I would disagree for essentially the same reason. The point of education is to produce motivated, intelligent individuals. At Oxbridge particularly the teaching is mainly done by supervisions, which consist of one on one chats with students. In many ways practically identical to an interview procedure, they may have no formal training but most will have in the region of 5-10 years of practical experience supervising before they are interviewing, so I'd say they are exceptionally well trained for the interview procedure. They've been working with students for years, and know what sort of people excell, both in supervisions and eventually in finals.


Well said. Rep coming your way.

MB
Reply 43
xx_ambellina_xx
I agree with everything that's been said here, and just want to add a personal slant...

I'm an incredibly introverted person, to the extent that some people do find me quite difficult to teach, since I don't speak much, and I'm very underconfident in my own ability. My interviewers managed to bring me out of myself so that I could talk freely and enthusiastically about my subject - something which my teachers at school thought would be my downfall. I was, in fact, told at school that the interview would probably make me cry, and that it'd probably be as far as I got in the application process. So, in response to the OP, the interviewers generally do know what they're doing.

I echo ambellina's thoughts exactly. I too am quite a shy person and often don't feel confident talking about my subject at length, but the interviewers made me feel relaxed and got me talking in a way I didn't think they could.
Reply 44
Response from the CUSU Access Officer:

gdb2222
Many academics are unsuited temperamentally to interviewing - too introverted, too interested in their own specialisation.
Interest in a specialisation isn’t an inappropriate characteristic for an interviewer and definitely has no connection with their temperament.

What you must understand is that candidate, NOT the interviewer, is at the centre of every interview. Academics know that university exists to foster debate and encourage innovation in their subject that’s why they teach here. They do not value sycophantic conformism to their interests or views over genuine insight and inquisitiveness.


gdb2222
None of the interviewers have had any formal training.
Actually they have. This isn’t just about what you are looking at in a candidate but also about how to create a situation where the candidate has the best opportunity to express themselves fully.


gdb2222
There is no assessment of the interview process.
This isn’t true. There are committees that oversee frequent reviews of every part of the admissions process for every subject.


gdb2222
There are no checks on the bias/prejudices of the interviewers.
I agree that interviewers have biases and prejudices every human does. However, the system is set up so that the biases of one person cannot affect admission. All decisions are made on the basis of more than one person’s recommendation.

More importantly, interviewers are professional, intelligent and experienced. None of their biases/prejudices have any relevance to admissions.
If you don’t believe this, then I think that that says more about how your biases and prejudices inform your actions than how those of interviewers do.


gdb2222
There is no formal guidance on what they should be looking for.
Yes there is and this guidance is no secret. The university website’s (FREE) section on interviews says what admissions tutors/interviewers are looking for in candidates. Anyone who is interested can read this (there are links to this page in other threads).


gdb2222
Interviewing as a technique is unlikely to sort out the best academically-gifted candidates. Rather, it is likely to select extroverted, confident candidates ale to express themselves well orally, rather than on paper. Some candidates may be passionate about the subject, but unable to expres this orally. Others may be uninterested in the subject, but convincing liars. The interviewers are unlikely to be able to differentiate.
I disagree with you. It is true that some people can express themselves better orally than others. However, despite popular belief, the interview is not a test in stylistic oratory - especially in subjects like Maths. Interviewers have the intelligence to distinguish between confidence and substance behind statements (otherwise they wouldn’t be doing what they do).

In my experience many academics are quiet and unassuming - until they talk about the subject they are passionate about. I don’t believe that someone can have a strong passion and not be able to express it in some way given the appropriate conditions. That is what the admissions process attempts (I think successfully) to do.

Interviewers ask candidates questions about the statements they make and I think it is nearly impossible to convincingly feign interest and insight. I would argue that anyone who thinks they can probably is interested and insightful anyway.

I also think that you misunderstand how interviews are used. Offers are never made purely on the basis of the interview.


gdb2222
Looking at this optimistically, many (hopefully most) interviewers are trying to do their best, with the best intentions, whilst sorely lacking the required skills. Looking at it pessimistically, some interviewers are bored and uninterested, resenting the whole process and awarding places arbitrarily. Others enjoy wielding power and regard college places as their personal fiefdom.
I don’t think optimism or pessimism is relevant. Interviewers say they want to admit the best candidates and that is what they do. They, like the people they want to admit, have a genuine interest in the subject they teach that is why they’ve dedicated their career to it. This extends to interviewing and admissions. None of them are forced to do and if they did ‘resent the whole process’, they would not be doing it. They are not concerned about any perverse pleasure that someone might gain from refusing people places.


gdb2222
Each place at Cambridge costs the public purse thousands of Pounds a year. The method of allocating those places lacks transparency, accountability and consistency.
I think the focus on Cambridge is unfair because every university place costs the public thousands of pounds a year. More over what you say about transparency, accountability and consistency is some way wide of the mark.

Transparency:
The university and the colleges (and CUSU) publicise the methodology used to admit students on its website, in its prospectus, through open days and other events that they run throughout the year. There is no secrecy and anyone can find this information out simply by using the internet. The problem is that people believe sensational stories about wacky fellows who ask about your parents land holdings and so on more than they believe what the university itself says.

Accountability:
Not only does Cambridge give feedback about the application to the school of each and every person who applies, there is also a complaints procedure (an independent one) for anyone who feels that their application was not dealt with appropriately. No other university does this.

Consistency:
It’s difficult to understand what you mean by consistency. There isn’t and there will never be one single method that can objectively judge every single person’s ability in a subject. The admissions process is consistent in that everyone is given the same opportunity to demonstrate their ability at a subject in multiple ways and there are substantive results to show that the system does work.


gdb2222
I have clearly stirred up a hornet's nest, here! My background is that I was interviewed at Cambridge over 30 years ago (and won an open scholarship), and I have worked as an academic for part of my career, so I have seen the admissions process from both sides, albeit some of it a long time ago.
I think comparing the admissions process now to what it was 10 years ago let alone 30 years is misguided. There are small but significant changes every year. I think a lot of what you’ve said suggests that you are criticising the process based on dated knowledge.


gdb2222
I should have stated my thesis more fully at the outset. My point is that degrees are awarded on the basis of written exams, and oral interviews are not necessarily a good guide to the final degree result. There is little research on this, of course.
I disagree with you. For a start degrees are only partly awarded on the basis of written exams. Every subject has a significant coursework element (optional or compulsory).

More importantly, most of the teaching in Cambridge is done in supervisions and that is what the interview replicates. I made this point earlier but interviews are not used on their own as a basis for selection. They are used in different ways in different subjects and considered in the context of other indicators, together giving a more complete representation of a person’s ability (and yes there is research that shows this).


gdb2222
Unfortunately, so many candidates now score straight As at A level that A levels are not a good guide. Cambridge has introduced various ad hoc tests, such as TSA, but these are not central to the admissions process. Consequently, interviews have received far more weight in recent years than they deserve. Cambridge should reintroduce its admissions examination and rely on that for the competitive entrance procedure. If it is necessary to weight the scores because some candidates have not been as well prepared as others, then that can be done. The result will be a transparent, consistent admissions procedure that correlates well with the undergraduate examination procedure. Obviously not perfect, but better than the present system.
I disagree with you again. If preparation by your school or otherwise is fundamental to your chances of success (with or without weighting), then that system isn’t good enough. Subject tests used on their own, will always favour people who know more.

Such a system would also not ‘correlate well with the undergraduate examination procedure’.

Teaching methods, syllabuses and resources in schools are incredibly diverse and performance in an admissions exam at 17 would reflect this.

Performance in undergraduate examination is more a reflection of how well you’ve assimilated/understood what you have been taught since you came to university. In other words how much you’ve benefited from the supervision system. It seems more appropriate for an admissions system to focus on indicating how well you might benefit from the teaching and this is better done through interviews (amongst other things) than an admissions test.

Speaking as a representative of the Students’ Union, I have no interest in making excuses for the university or its academics. My job is to represent students and applicants, and to ensure that they (not the university or its staff) get a fair deal. The system may not be perfect but I speak with real insight into the process, and can say that it is far fairer than you give it credit for.

'Nuff said.

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